babylon_nl

2002 Deville Headgasket leak - Now what?

126 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hi all,

First off I'm SO very happy I found this forum, I live in Amsterdam, The Netherlands and a Cadillac here is a bit of an Al Capone boat, no matter her age or model, most American cars are, but Cadillac.. that's only something from movies.

 

BUT... I got myself about 1 year ago the real deal, a 2002 Deville in, I must say, mint condition, inside and out. No complaints exept for the radio that didnt do 'our' frequencies (or rather 50% of the fm frequencies, we use odd frequencies as well, the original radio only does even, or the other way around?). So replaced it with a nice pioneer digital radio with the proper interfaces to keep everything original. I love that car!

In order to spoil her, I asked a friend mechanic to give it an overhaul, new fluids, new sparkplugs (they were ANCIENT), flush the coolant etc. First thing to pop was a coil, i guess it couldnt handle the new sparks, ordered a new one and all was fine. Until a few weeks later BOOM, it overheated. A quick look learned coolant was VERY low. Later I realised this was probably just an airbubble, as I started reading online about engine problems on the Deville. Yes, I am guilty as charged as not to bring it to a certified or at least experienced Cadillac shop, but keep in mind the closest one to find easilly is about 2.500miles from here: in the States, 

So from here on clouds drew over my Obamobile as it was commonly refered to last year (dont want to offend anyone, but I think it sounded better than 'Trumpette' as I heard someone called my baby :wipetears). 

In the weeks that follow things got from the temperature going thru half-way just a bit at a stoplight after a highway tour in the beginning, to sweaty and tensioned drives the past days as temperature is absolute iradic. CHECK COOLANT LEVEL was in my display ever since I bought her, so I decided to order a new reservoir with sensor so at least i could see what was going on and didnt have to check the level before a drive. That worked... for bit. Now I still check the level and fill her to the right level, close her up and start driving. About 2 minutes down the road the dash will tell me again to check the level. Here's what a typical drive now looks like for me:

- I adjust the coolant if necessary, when cold the system is always under pressure. I assume that's normal. (is it?) Usually she agrees the level is ok for about 5, 6 minutes of drive (temperature raised about 1/4).

- When I pull up for gas (also common on 4.6L engines i guess) and continue my drive, the level usually remains satisfactory to her, but not always.

- I drive for good 20 minutes (Holland is not very big fortunately), when i dont meet any stoplights things should be good, when i need to stop, I keep my fingers crossed that dreaded needle wont go up. It goes down again as i proceed to drive. Than I stop the car and do my bussiness, so far, no problems.

- I get back and halfway home, so that's about 10 minutes on the highway, temperature may go up to a level where i need to pull over and let the car cool, cuz I dont want the teperature to go in the red. Thusfar it happend to me one she told me she had turned off my a/c because her engine was hot.

- When times are bad I may have to repeat those steps, when i dont rev above 2000rpm she thusfar remains fairly under control, but in the last 10 minutes to home i may have to pause 2 or 3 times to let her cool. The other day the last stop I made settled her mind, as temperature ran down to normal and as I parked she was happy as a if I had given her a box of chocolate.Temperature fine, no faults, she didnt even drain my gastank. 

- I go inside, do my 20 minutes of prayers and say my Hail Cadillac's and prepare for the next trip.

So... My mechanic friend tested the coolant for illegal substances and we found that she's been smoking, as Co2 was found. Now you all know smoking weed is legal here but I never caught her doing any, so we came to the conclusion her head gasket was blown.:wipetears

So... what to do now? I have been reading and viewing youtube movies about horror stories on northstar engines, oh my, at times i get the feeling the Northstar engine is the absolute worst engine anybody ever built in the entire automobile history.. there's bolts that just pop out, entire blocks have cracks in it from front to end, they gobble up gaskets like there's  no tomorrow and if you're lucky this all happens after about 10.000 miles of driving! Fortunately I know the People of The Internet have a way of over-exaggerating things and there are, so i understand 3 model northstar's, so probably it's not as bad as it looks. BUT...

I need to repair my car. I love her too much to dispose of her because of this. Here's what we take into consideration given what we read and found reasonable to be true and our geographical location:

- Parts for the Deville we can order online from rockauto, they are relatively inexpensive (particulary compared to european parts) and are here within 2 to 3 weeks, no problem.
- The engine did at least 275.000km's up until today.
- We can buy the same block at a junkyard, supposedly ran 100.000km, but we're never sure. It was a crash car so we can asume it's a fair engine for it's age and mileage. Still, it's 15 years old and did 100.000km's. It sells for say 1500 dollars.
- We can buy a new longblock for roughly 4500,- dollars plus the little extra's you'll always end up needing. But it also needs shipment and it's gonna be taxed when it comes here. That means it's gonna be roughly 7500,- 
- We can refurbish the entire engine, that would set me back roughly 2500,- dollars. It would mean the engine would be as good as new.
- We can replace the headgasket, a bit of belting, maybe a waterpump and small things only and pray there's nothing else we find. This shoud be doable for about 750,-
- In any case the engine needs to be removed from and refitted to the car. One internet video tells us we should be looking at about 80 hours of work, maybe it's 40. My friend mechanic doesnt charge me top dollar but he dont work for free either. Plus during the entire time the car is under construction his garage will be occupied with Cadillac. Now I wouldnt mind that as its a Cadillac, but he does. 

Now after this all, I come back to my original question: now what!?

What should I do? Are all my troubles coming from the headgasket? What's up with those 'pallets' everybody talks about that should be mixed with the coolant? What happens if you dont use those, will you exhaust leaks to your coolant by any chance? To go short do I NEED to replace the HG in order to solve my problems, would anybody say there is a chance I might still have the same problems when the repairs are done because i may have missed a very essential issue in maintanance somewhere? 

And what option of repair would you recommend? Go for the lower mileage block or instead for an overhaul of the original block? Is my block a 'good' one, or one that will spit out the bolts because of some crazy threading? the newer block or the original, would i still want to replace those bolts and use those mysterious 'inserts' or is there a better option and is it necessary? 

Can anybody realistically say how much time it would take to take out the engine and put it back in? And is this truly the only sensible way of repairing the HG?

Ordering a new block is about the only thing I am willing to eliminate, but I am also willing to add buying an overhauled engine from the states, given the price is reasonable and shipment can be aranged, but will I have a no doubt about it excellent condition block, as warranty doesnt mean anything to me, I simply cant just send it back to have a look at it, simple as that.

So than, for the diehards that took the time to read all this, my gratitude, I'm sorry for my bad English, it's hopefully more understandable than when I would have written it in Dutch, yet, my apologies, 

I wish you all happy and safe driving and if you can spare me any hints or tips, I'm very much looking forward to them and I'd be happy to add any information when I forgot some.

Thanks in advance, greetings from Amsterdam and be well!

Ron

PS: My VIN has a '9' in the engine type digit.

 

side 2 small.jpg

engine 1 small.jpg

Edited by babylon_nl

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:welcomesmiley:

Okay, color me "diehard", I read the whole thing. :excl: :blush: If my math is close you have about 160,000 miles on the vehicle.

IF, it was my Cadillac, I would remove the engine, remove the heads, throw away all the head bolts & install Time-serts in the block. There is a kit for doing that ( @Logan ) has the expertise with Time-serts, wait for him to chime in. Replace the head gaskets, intake and plenum gaskets, radiator/surge tank cap, water pump, all the water pump crossover gaskets, thermostat, coolant hoses, heater hoses, remove the radiator and have it cleaned or replaced if needed, timing chains and chain followers, oil pump, rear main seal AND reseal the case halves. While I had the case halves off I would check the main and rod bearings and replace as necessary.  Once I had it put back together I would drive it like I stole it and put it in my will for the grand-kids to drive when they got old enough. ALL the above is IF I was planning on keeping the vehicle for a LONG time. If it is time for the divorce, give her the used engine and hope she doesn't want child support.

IF I was you, I would be tempted to buy the low mileage ( 100000 km = about 60000 miles ) engine and rebuild it as described above. then it would only be an engine swap for your mechanic to do. Limiting the long term parking in his garage and making him happier.

@barczy01 is doing these repairs for a living, so he may have some tips, tricks, resources and invaluable advise as well.

All this is assuming you have VERIFIED exhaust gases in the cooling system. You stated he told you Co2 which is carbon dioxide. I took this as a typo and that he really meant CO or Carbon Monoxide. Correct me if I'm wrong. There are a LOT of things that can make an engine overheat BUT if you have exhaust in the coolant it is time for the heart transplant.

 

Bruce Nunnally likes this

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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Pull the entire engine and send it to one of us in the US that is very common on these cars. I just received a motor and did the head gaskets, inserts in the block and resealed the lower bearing case. I t was a high miles 175K so I installed rod bearings too. 1200$ bill. 

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@OldCadTech aka Diehard hahaha. Thanks so much for your input, it's a relieve to hear from people who actually know what they are talking about. On the low mileage motor, I can only but assume the 60k miles are for real, it's been and still is quite easy to have your odometer 'done' here and obviously i dont know absolutely nothing about this car, even the registration documents are gone as the title is discarded when it ends up at the scrapyard (in fact it gets trashed at any point where a car is so damaged it is not allowed to drive anymore, once it's repaired you actually get a new title). So it looks to me as the best way to go as well, but the least we should do is some tests like combustion pressure etc, what would you (or anybody) recommend to test at least? 

Yes i was there when we did a test with the fluid it went from blue quite swiftly to yellowish-green, so yes, exhaust gas is in the coolant, i did mean Co, not Co2 :)

I'm looking foward to reading replies with tricks and tips, anything that we should take care of and into consideration is very, very welcome!

 

@barczy01 You know I would love to pull that, but on top of the repair, i'm expection quite a substantial bill for shipment back and forth, maybe by ship would be the cheapest way but i'd probably be looking at a 5 months minimum repairtime :blink:. But if anybody would be willing to plan their vacation in the Netherlands, who can do the job, I'm more than willing to consider opting-in a garage-excursion with hands-on fun and games! :)

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The thread kit for that version Northstar is the J-42385-2000. 

It uses Timesert insert 11155 which is a M11 x 1.5 thread. The 11155 inserts are easy to get on Amazon. $3.66 each. 

There are both Timesert and (GM) Kent Moore versions of the repair kit. Both kits use identical Timesert tools. The Timesert and Kent Moore kits are configured differently and come in different plastic cases. 

We do rent the thread repair kits. Not sure about shipping a kit overseas. 

 

 

Just FYI....About 8 years ago....my 2001 started showing signs of a pulled bolt. At the time....I came very close to putting a used 2003 engine in the car. The 2003 engine had a coating on the pistons so technically it could not be sold as a 'direct exact' replacement engine for a 2000-2002. Hence used 2003 engines were quite a bit less expensive since they were a 1 year engine. 2004 engines are substantially different.   

I ended up selling the car as-is with a suspect pulled head bolt. Actually got quite a bit for the car as-is.

 

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Posted (edited)

15 hours ago, babylon_nl said:

I can only but assume the 60k miles are for real,

It doesn't really matter as long as the block is good b-cuz you will be "overhauling" it anyway. It's nice to start with an engine that has fewer miles on it. The main thing is, you can work on the rebuild while the other engine is still in the vehicle and it is not tying up your mechanics rack. Offer them $300 for the engine.

The Netherlands visit is on the bucket list along with Sweden, Norway and Switzerland but since there doesn't appear to be a vacation, let alone a "working" vacation in the foreseeable future, I think I'm going to miss the rebuild. :( Hmmm, was that an all expense paid trip with room and board? :huh:

15 hours ago, babylon_nl said:

Yes i was there when we did a test with the fluid it went from blue quite swiftly to yellowish-green, so yes, exhaust gas is in the coolant,

Yep, bad HG. You did the correct test :paint2:

As Logan mentioned it doesn't have to be a direct replacement, so shop around and see if you can find a "donor". If the "donor" engine runs make sure it is not gushing oil and that there are no abnormal noises. Do a compression test on all cylinders, for accurate results take all the spark plugs out and disable the fuel pump, injectors and coil packs. Write the results down for each cylinder, if one or two cylinders have low readings, put about a teaspoon of oil in the cylinder(s) and retest. You are looking for uniformity in the readings not necessarily high readings. There should be no more than 15 psi difference or 103 kPa?

Lets see, travel = 2 days, 3-4 day rebuild, 1 day swap...... :unsure: OH Darn! NVM, wouldn't have my tools :(:blush: 

 

Edited by OldCadTech

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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OMG you guys, I love it :) thanks for your answers, slowly slowly the puzzel comes to a complete!

@Logan - Ok so we need that set, on the tooling, let me check aroudn for it here, if the timesert is used here, maybe we can find one, if worse comes to worse, is buying it somewhat affordable?

Selling the car as is here is probably not an option, everybody is quite scared to work on this kind of engines and an official dealer will charge you as if you just bought the car brand new (oh, for giggles, you're gonna love this, since we have this nice thing here in holland that's called tax and new cars are taxed in a rather pecular way of (grab on to something) roughly 50% (and i dont mean 5 here, nor do i mean 50 dollar, i mean take the ex-tax price, add 50%) and than add sales tax of 21% (yes, we tax on tax).

So now I'm tempted by another mechanic friend, one who's experienced in taking engines apart (and putting them back together, I hope haha), he says he can do the job without taking the engine out. I warned him about the fact that it's recomended not to do, but what will be the hot spot, what is the thing were it gets so tough? I tried to google that but it's hard for me to comprehend the problem because simply i have no clue what it's all about..

the way to go in this case would be to try and fix it in the car, if dont work out, get the replacement engine, fix that and swap.. by the time we're at the swappy part he probably can call himself an expert on the northstar.. as we say in holland: in the land of the blind, the one with one eye is King...

@OldCadTech - Are you pretty sure? If you change your mind, please do hurry, i'll take you to all the additional windmills and coffeeshops in amsterdam you may like.. 

ps: I do have a screwdriver and when worse comes to worse, i might have a wrench laying around somewhere... but she's usually sleeping, so jeah, i suppose tooling might be an issue ;)

 

Thanks for you support guys, really appreciated!!

 

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He will wish he NEVER tried taking the rear head off in the car. Do Not stand too close to him when he tries it. I wouldn't even attempt it. Front head MAYBE rear head definitely NOT....

 

You at least need a hammer, vise grips, pliers, and 2 screwdrivers, and at least one adjustable wrench that must be awake before using :excl::)

 


THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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wahahaha... well, let me know when you're coming, i will stop her sedation in time :P

first thing he tells me is the base block is steel, whereas i figured the base would be some aluminium? just to be sure, is he correct? and still no helicoils?

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Posted (edited)

The Block IS aluminum.... May I suggest another mechanix :excl::wacko:

No Heli-coils - they pull, then HG leaks again.

Edited by OldCadTech

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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hahaha well my friend who is a friend of the guy who knows told me, so there is still hope :)  let's give them some time to overthink this project.. pff.. I wonder if this at one point in time is all gonna be good 8-) 

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I should move to Amsterdam and open a FOREIGN auto repair shop....Sounds like mechanics are easy to find, automotive technicians are very scarce there. Good luck !


THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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Aluminum block. 

No, no, no, on the Heli-coils....they will pull. 

Toyota 2.4L engines have a huge problem with pulled head bolt threads in the aluminum block.. People try a quick fix with Heli-coils....really a quick fail....they pull out.

It should be noted....the Toyota uses the same head bolt thread. M11 x 1.5. Uses the same Timesert 11155 insert as Northstars thru 2003. 

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hahaha well my friend who is a friend of the guy who knows told me, so there is still hope :)  let's give them some time to overthink this project.. pff.. I wonder if this at one point in time is all gonna be good 8-) 

Oh my, it seems i did not press send, so much of what i typed here is obsolete now...

Many thanks thusfar, it's been bit quiet from fhis side, since demantaling the engine has started.. :unsure:

And... happy to say, it's going well! But a question came up, regarding the movement of the cilinders in the block.. The engine did consume 'some' oil but the general consensus on 'some' is that it's normal...

My friend made a video on what we mean, it's here: 

 

On european cars this absolutely horrific, but the block or the cilinders dont show any ridges... would this movement (about 1mm as you can see in the video) be acceptable or do we need to fix something?

Again, many thanks for your input, it's very much appreciated!!

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I would say that is not normal.  On tear down you will need to check piston / bore clearances.  If you do not have the specs, I am sure we can find them and send to you.

If you decide to fix, as others have mentioned, you must repair all 20 block head bolt threads.  You can use timeserts and new bolts or Northstar Performance studs.  

You might want to contact Northstar Performance to see if they have a block for you with that rocking.  Cylinders can be out of spec by 1) taper and 2).out of round.  It is possible that the cylinders need to be trued up before new pistons are installed, but that play you show appears excessive.  If I am not mistaken those pistons have a teflon material on the skirts.  

Do you have a good machine shop that can measure clearances?

Given the machine work that might be needed to correct that rocking, it might be best to see if you can have a block shipped to you..

ILL try to get Jake from Northstar Performance to stop in here.  


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Please watch this video in regards to head bolt hole repair methods. Timeserts work some of the time. They often fail because they have the same fine thread on the outside of the insert. In aluminum you want a coarse thread gripping as much as possible in that aluminum.

As for the pistons and the rocking in the cylinders; this is normal for these Northstars. They run a pretty high operating temperature and that's when everything expands and tolerances tighten up.

 

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HI all,

So it's 1 against 1 :)  From the context I feel BodyByFisher is not quite sure with regards to measuring and all, so I have a strong urge to go with NorthstarPerformance ;)

The thing that settles my mind is that the engine ran absolutely smooth (tho i had no comparison obviously), my idea would be that if the rocking would have been as serious as how it looks (cold, that's true!) the engine should have sounded like a diesel.. 

I was planning to go for a head gasket kit @RockAuto but they are selling two sets, one of them has been out of stock for like forever and at this point i'm not sure what additional gaskets and seals and all we need, the out-of-stock set seems to have more 'things'.

I noticed NorthstarPerfomance also sells headgaskets, but do you also have all the other bunch of things and stuff we most likely need? the price for the parts are hardly an issue be it 10 or 20 dollars more, bottleneck is the shipping price (cheaper to go for a single shipment rather than 5) and obviously the time it takes to get here... 

My friend asked me for an exploded view of the engine as to more easilly define the stuff we need, i have a Haines book on the car but an headgasket repair they are quite clear: dont do it (yourself) so that's were it ends.

I can't emphasis enough how much the input here means to me, so again many thanks, also for people just reading along it's very much appreciated!

 

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3 hours ago, babylon_nl said:

HI all,

So it's 1 against 1 :)  From the context I feel BodyByFisher is not quite sure with regards to measuring and all, so I have a strong urge to go with NorthstarPerformance ;)

The thing that settles my mind is that the engine ran absolutely smooth (tho i had no comparison obviously), my idea would be that if the rocking would have been as serious as how it looks (cold, that's true!) the engine should have sounded like a diesel.. 

I was planning to go for a head gasket kit @RockAuto but they are selling two sets, one of them has been out of stock for like forever and at this point i'm not sure what additional gaskets and seals and all we need, the out-of-stock set seems to have more 'things'.

I noticed NorthstarPerfomance also sells headgaskets, but do you also have all the other bunch of things and stuff we most likely need? the price for the parts are hardly an issue be it 10 or 20 dollars more, bottleneck is the shipping price (cheaper to go for a single shipment rather than 5) and obviously the time it takes to get here... 

My friend asked me for an exploded view of the engine as to more easilly define the stuff we need, i have a Haines book on the car but an headgasket repair they are quite clear: dont do it (yourself) so that's were it ends.

I can't emphasis enough how much the input here means to me, so again many thanks, also for people just reading along it's very much appreciated!

 

One against One?  I went out of my way and brought Jake from Northstsr Performance here to help YOU!!!   

Its not my car and if it were my car, I would have the factory service manual, micrometer and bore guage and KNOW EXACTLY what rhe clearance should be and make sure its within specification tolarance, IF the tolerances indicated that rocking was normal, I would have been OK with it.  When I contacted Jake on YOUR behalf, I asked him to look at the rocking for me and is it normal since he rebuilds them.  I can tell you that, that rocking is NOT normal in a 96 to 99.

I have been around a long time and that is the first I have see a piston rock like that and it did not look normal. @KHE. I am curious if KHE is surprised by this rocking.


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Posted (edited)

The piston rocking back and fourth is normal. I have one apart at work now and its the same thing. TIMESERTS work all the time for me :).

Edited by barczy01
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Posted (edited)

Sorry BodyByFisher that was not how I meant it, please bare in mind english is not my native language.. what I meant is one says it's normal, one says it's not, as said, all input is very welcome and I appreciate hugely all the effort here, I am a sort of in-between someone who is willing to do the job and you guys and my knowledge on engines is like.. nil.. so all i can do is read what you guys tell me and interpret it as good as I can.. what I read is one reaction that says it's definately ok, and yours saying it's probably not ok but we'd have to measure...Now i'm more than happy to suggest we do some measures, knowing is always better than thinking, what i meant is if it's up to me, i'd gladly believe the 'it's normal' because if it is, it saves us a huge amount of work (and money) .

So i'm hoping more valued advice will be given, either measures so we know or more reactions saying it's nothing to worry about or people saying they've seen worse.. . I am hoping for the last also given the fact the engine ran quite smooth, but than (i absolutely dont know) this may be normal too even if things are not within tolerance.. 

So sorry again it was by no means a negative response.. if you have any measures we can compare i'm pretty sure we can do the job, as said, knowing is better than thinking!

Edited by babylon_nl
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11 minutes ago, barczy01 said:

The piston rocking back and fourth is normal. I have one apart at work now and its the same thing. TIMESERTS work all the time for me :).

Ok, so now it's 2 to 1, and still i'm not downing anyone ;) thanks barczy01, my heartbeat keeps dropping from words like 'normal' haha.. yet i still have absolutely nothing against the scientific aproach ;)

There's still a race (I keep doing it, dont i?) on the bolts to use, what would be thing to go for, given we probably dont have any tooling (i suppose!) if special tooling is required, but i'm willing to buy.. I have read many things about helicoils, it's the thing to use in european engines, is what i'm told here, what is down and simple the issue *not* to use in the northstar? As said, a few dollars more in price doesnt really matter (as long as it's not 100's) availability, shipping time and i suppose special tooling is.. and obviously it should not break down within a month, that would definately be a plus too :)

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35 minutes ago, babylon_nl said:

Ok, so now it's 2 to 1, and still i'm not downing anyone ;) thanks barczy01, my heartbeat keeps dropping from words like 'normal' haha.. yet i still have absolutely nothing against the scientific aproach ;)

There's still a race (I keep doing it, dont i?) on the bolts to use, what would be thing to go for, given we probably dont have any tooling (i suppose!) if special tooling is required, but i'm willing to buy.. I have read many things about helicoils, it's the thing to use in european engines, is what i'm told here, what is down and simple the issue *not* to use in the northstar? As said, a few dollars more in price doesnt really matter (as long as it's not 100's) availability, shipping time and i suppose special tooling is.. and obviously it should not break down within a month, that would definately be a plus too :)

DO NOT use Heilicoils in the Northstar engine - you will rip them out of the block the minute you torque the head bolts.  Then you will need to use a Bigsert (large Timesert threaded bushing to repair the block).  I tend to think that using Bigserts may weaken the block.  I had a block crack on my '97 Seville after several years of service (that I repaired with Bigserts).  I realize it is only one data point but I have no idea why other than it weakened the block enough that the internal stresses eventually caused the block to crack. 


Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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1 hour ago, babylon_nl said:

Sorry BodyByFisher that was not how I meant it, please bare in mind english is not my native language.. what I meant is one says it's normal, one says it's not, as said, all input is very welcome and I appreciate hugely all the effort here, I am a sort of in-between someone who is willing to do the job and you guys and my knowledge on engines is like.. nil.. so all i can do is read what you guys tell me and interpret it as good as I can.. what I read is one reaction that says it's definately ok, and yours saying it's probably not ok but we'd have to measure...Now i'm more than happy to suggest we do some measures, knowing is always better than thinking, what i meant is if it's up to me, i'd gladly believe the 'it's normal' because if it is, it saves us a huge amount of work (and money) .

So i'm hoping more valued advice will be given, either measures so we know or more reactions saying it's nothing to worry about or people saying they've seen worse.. . I am hoping for the last also given the fact the engine ran quite smooth, but than (i absolutely dont know) this may be normal too even if things are not within tolerance.. 

So sorry again it was by no means a negative response.. if you have any measures we can compare i'm pretty sure we can do the job, as said, knowing is better than thinking!

Not a problem, this type of communication is difficult when English IS the native language.  This type of communication is difficult at times.

Jake and @barczy01 do this all the time and I defer to  them.   Its the reason why I immediately contacted Jake via text to have him opine on the rocking.  It looked wrong to me, especially after someone in the video said it looked to be burning oil or something like that. 

I don't have direct experience with the 2000 and newer NS but I do know that there was a change to the pistons beginning in 2000 and some 2000s suffered oil consumption and had their pistons replaced under warranty.  

It is good news that it normal so you can move forward with the repair. 

I really don't believe that is normal on a 93 to 99. 

We have had good experience with timeserts as KHE mentioned, but it is VERY important that the block material be good.  By that I mean, when you drill, you need to see FILINGS not DUST or sandy material, if you do you need to go to a big-sert.  If you put a timesert into a hole that had dusty material it will pull quickly as the material has been damaged from heat and or electrolysis.   You MUST replace the head bolts as they are torque to yield fasteners, and they stretch when torqued.

The other options that are available are Jake's studs from Northstar Performance you can visit his web page and learn more and,

Norms NS300L inserts, which you can use with the new OEM head bolts or bolts from Fel-Pro, see Norms site here

http://www.huhnsolutions.com/

Good luck and let us know how we can help and sorry for the miscommunication, I tend to be sensitive :hatsoff:or um, passionate, :P


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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@BodybyFisher: '  I tend to be sensitive :hatsoff:or um, passionate, :P ' haha.. yes.. passion is good,, too little people have a real passion these days I guess.. that's what I like about forums like this (I am on some forums for my work as well, on satellite equipment and pc stuff) as passion brings a lot of valuable knowledge that non-passionate people just.. miss I suppose.. 

@KHE I think he's convinced now :) thanks! It makes sense, we're going to check the block  this weekend and i'll try and get some pictures of the progress, From what I understand is that he decided to still take the engine out because of - some reason I didnt understand- 

I'm gonna update soon! Thanks again guys!

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13 minutes ago, babylon_nl said:

@BodybyFisher: '  I tend to be sensitive :hatsoff:or um, passionate, :P ' haha.. yes.. passion is good,, too little people have a real passion these days I guess.. that's what I like about forums like this (I am on some forums for my work as well, on satellite equipment and pc stuff) as passion brings a lot of valuable knowledge that non-passionate people just.. miss I suppose.. 

@KHE I think he's convinced now :) thanks! It makes sense, we're going to check the block  this weekend and i'll try and get some pictures of the progress, From what I understand is that he decided to still take the engine out because of - some reason I didnt understand- 

I'm gonna update soon! Thanks again guys!

Good Luck,.yes, its easier to do the rear bank with the engine out.....   Cant wait to see photos.  Ill see if I can get you some spec detail.

babylon_nl likes this

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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