mikeal1892 Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Well kids it all started with changing my coolant at 99K miles now were at 101K . The coolant was changed the old fashion way for the record. After 3 weeks of rough start ups and then the coolant running hott sometimes stopped in town and while driving out on the open road. I thought it would be time to test the coolant and yes we have gases ! I almost cried standing there looking at my hours of work and care. I have done everything by the book and have all service records , and they were done on time. This car has had the best of everything and has never spent a night outside unless I was traveling. I'm going to replace almost all of the seals when we pull it out the motor on Friday. I have had 5 Cadillacs and I have had more issues with this Seville than any other Cadillac or car I have ever owned. Also this is sorta how it all happen we tested the coolant and then I thought to myself I just cant go it anymore. So I went to the Honda dealership and was looking for a used Accord . Didnt have one ! Then we tried adding that bars head gasket sealant only for a temp. I then thought about a Deville I seen so I started down west 3rd street. All these messages came across the screen, engine hot , shut ac off and then fianly after I had turned around It was screaming for the engine to be shut off. Now I'm driving a 93 Grand am GT 2dr... lol Looks like I'll be driving it over the next two weeks. Good Gas MGP ! Michael - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Michael, I am sorry to hear that. How long have you owned the car? I got the impression that its a recent purchase for you. So you are getting it fixed? Who is fixing it? How much are they charging? You are getting it time-serted right? Very sorry to hear this, your enthusiasm for your car is something that always shows through here, this must hurt. Make sure you consult with the guys here who are time-sert veterans. I am hoping NOT to become a time-sert veteran, but I have 82K miles, can you hear it > tick, tick, tick, tick, tick Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Two plus two is not making four here. There has to be more to this story. You flushed the coolant? With what? A few days ago, this same car displayed a P code for the transmission input speed sensor? Is that correct? Was that you? Now your coolant is running a little warm with exhaust gases present? And your fuel MPG is a little lower than what you expect to see? You "...tried adding that bars head gasket sealant"?? Where is that recommended "...by the book"? If your car was my car, I would either spend the money to have an experienced someone else diagnose all the reported problems before I put down the money for an engine rebuild. But that is just me. Your car, your money. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeal1892 Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I have had the car for 22 months now! I own interest in a well established shop on the west side of town thats been around for 11 years and the guys that work for us have been working on cars for well over 20 years! It just seems to be al running together with this one. On the P code however I have only gotten it twice I think but the transmission guy we use out of house says that changing the fluid its self should take car of it. I have been pulling codes out of my Cadillacs VIA the DIC for a while now. Plus we looked at it with the scaner and seen other things going on. You "...tried adding that bars head gasket sealant"?? Where is that recommended "...by the book"? As I expressed before it was long thought of as being a temporary fix for it. Its a new product on the market it seems . Just something to try. you never know. We own the lastest equitment. Myself with the guys will be fixing the car. We work on a few Cadillacs not many it just seems most people want something that just gets them around anymore. "Wonder why" ? Its looking like it will be going to a machine shop to have alot of the work done on the heads.I'll be printing off KHE's thread very shortly:) And I have my faith in all of you ! The best advice one can find is on this site and I tell everyone that I come in contact with that owns a Cadillac about it or if there intrested in the product. The only good that will come out of it I see is my car wont have any seapy seals on the oil pan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Have you or your mechanic put each cylinder at top dead center and pressurized each cylinder with 120 PSI? That is the most conclusive test for the head gaskets. When I checked my '97 STS, #5 made a gurgling sound in the surge tank and #7 made the surge tank erupt like a geyser but I knew the gasket was shot as it was puking coolant to the ground and into the engine oil.... If the head bolts have pulled, you don't work on the heads....you machine the head bolt holes in the block. I would not bother machining the valves or the head/block surfaces - they are most likely fine as the aluminum dissipates the heat very well and block and head warpage with these engines are very rare. When I removed the heads on my STS (105,000 miles), the factory hone pattern was still visible and there was absolutely no ridge in the cylinders....NONE. It is getting Timeserts, new head gaskets and new headbolts and should be back on the road in a couple of weeks. I really would not be too concerned with the repair as long as the person working on it follows the GM shop manual to the letter and uses GM parts. You cannot repair these engines as if they are a small block Chevy...if you do, the repair will be unsuccessful. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Just buy some head gasket sealer. I know of one other that sealed a Northstar head gasket with one of the many products that will do the job. Perhaps it's not your style but I think it's worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhall Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Michael, Pull the engine and replace the gaskets. Timesert the block. I doubt if you'll have any issues if the car has been serviced reasonably well - especially the oil changes. My '97 Deville had 130K on it when the water pump belt popped and the gasket at #1 cylinder went south. The engine still had the factory cross-hatch, crankshaft clearance within the factory specs and other parts that were in excellent shape. I have to say after working on the 60's through 80's stuff that the rebuild task was not a nightmare, but it was reasonable challenge doing it in my garage at the house. I am still impressed by the design in these engines and the durability it brings. I still own the car and have added another 10K. It runs great. I overdid the rebuild and replaced the half-case gasket along with all but the spark plug well gaskets. I had the valves and seats resurfaced (against the advice of the caddy guru I might add). They needed just a very light touch to clean 'em up. I also replaced some of the tranny seals main converter, o-ring on the main shaft and the axle seals along with the filter in the side case while I had the drive train out of the car. If the body is in as good a shape as you indicate, it's worth the $2K or so to get it back on the road again. Look at it this way - think you'll find a caddy in the same shape (after the repair) for less than $2,500??? [attachmentid=2450][attachmentid=2451] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Bless me members for I have sinned.... Before I took my trip the other day, I accidently poured about 1 ounce of green coolant in my tank and immediately stopped. Have I caused any problem? About a cap full.. I never had GREEN.... I bought it last month for my sons 93 Taurus... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acklac7 Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Bless me members for I have sinned.... Before I took my trip the other day, I accidently poured about 1 ounce of green coolant in my tank and immediately stopped. Have I caused any problem? About a cap full.. I never had GREEN.... I bought it last month for my sons 93 Taurus... I remember the GURU emphatically stating NEVER to combine the orange and the green....I don't believe he ever elaborated as to why the two can not be combined. However I do remember reading that when the green coolant comes in contact with the dexi-cool it creates some extremely corrosive acidic compound...Not sure if that is true..Someone posted it @ Cadillac Owners...Unfortunately regular members can't use the search anymore ...It was either in the "Northstar technical" or "letters to Cadillac Corporate" forum. A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I hope you're wrong Acklac7! I had my waterpump replaced by a family friend on our '93 Dodge Caravan atleast a year and a half ago and he put green in. It originally had orange, and I imagine he didn't drain out the orange completely. I noticed this months later when I checked the coolant and saw green. We haven't had any coolant related problems yet with the van...fingers crossed, knocking on wood! I guess I better change the coolant in it as well. Question is, what color to go with now?!?! Michael, Sorry to hear about your car! Just curious, have you always used the coolant supplements when doing your antifreeze changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeal1892 Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Have you or your mechanic put each cylinder at top dead center and pressurized each cylinder with 120 PSI? That is the most conclusive test for the head gaskets. When I checked my '97 STS, #5 made a gurgling sound in the surge tank and #7 made the surge tank erupt like a geyser but I knew the gasket was shot as it was puking coolant to the ground and into the engine oil.... If the head bolts have pulled, you don't work on the heads....you machine the head bolt holes in the block. I would not bother machining the valves or the head/block surfaces - they are most likely fine as the aluminum dissipates the heat very well and block and head warpage with these engines are very rare. When I removed the heads on my STS (105,000 miles), the factory hone pattern was still visible and there was absolutely no ridge in the cylinders....NONE. It is getting Timeserts, new head gaskets and new headbolts and should be back on the road in a couple of weeks. I really would not be too concerned with the repair as long as the person working on it follows the GM shop manual to the letter and uses GM parts. You cannot repair these engines as if they are a small block Chevy...if you do, the repair will be unsuccessful. [/quo Hey Kevin, What you said you were seeing with the STS mines doing just the same. Todays job will be to test the prssure on the cyclinders. Its sad to say but I'm kinda excited to do this ! Then maybe I'll buy one the way you did. I've been finding cars with head gasket issues on auto trader for sometime yet. So, I'm about to learn. I'm just shocked its happen to me, but thats life. Michael - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acklac7 Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I hope you're wrong Acklac7! I had my waterpump replaced by a family friend on our '93 Dodge Caravan atleast a year and a half ago and he put green in. It originally had orange, and I imagine he didn't drain out the orange completely. I noticed this months later when I checked the coolant and saw green. We haven't had any coolant related problems yet with the van...fingers crossed, knocking on wood! I guess I better change the coolant in it as well. Question is, what color to go with now?!?! Michael, Sorry to hear about your car! Just curious, have you always used the coolant supplements when doing your antifreeze changes? I believe your '93 should have originally been filled with the green coolant...As dexi-cool didn't come out untill 96(?). At any rate I was able to find the thread...Dexi-cool issues..Read the posts by "GreenMachine". (also remember that the C.O. board is quite different from C.I. board...There are some bright people over there...But sometimes you need to take things with a grain of salt..However im betting that GreenMachine is on the right track..Mainly b/c of the guru's similar warnings regarding this issue) I too changed over from conventional green to dexi-cool about 3 years ago...I remember the bobster said to fully flush the coolant system (multiple times..which I did) and make sure that there wasn't any green coolant left...I haven't had coolant related issues to report. And Michael...I would definitely conduct further tests to determine if the headgaskets are indeed failing....There have been a number of people (including you know who) who have seriously questioned the accuracy of the "gasses in the coolant" test. A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Green coolant and DexCool can be mixed in an emergency - When DexCool was developed, that was taken into consideration as someone could be in the middle of nowhere and not have access to DexCool. While you don't want to make that a regular practice, a capful won't hurt. If it bothers you, just drain and refill with fresh DexCool. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill K Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 My memory of the green/Dexcool combination is that you would have to change coolant every two years instead of five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Olsson Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I´m not going to post something useful here but perhaps I can make you feel a bit more relaxed? I´ve done the timeserting myself with the engine in car. This wasn´t due to leaking gaskets, it was beacuse of low compression on the no 1 cylinder due to burned valves witch is unusual with these engines. I had the rear head removed and had the valves and seats resurfaced. The guy who did the resurfacing said it propably had to do with a previous owner beeing to easy on the pedal, ie carbon buildups forming hot spots and eventually causing the valves to be overheated and burned. He saw lots of that on other brands "It usually starts with older ladys cars, some day the car wont start anymore and then they look like this" Guess that that owner never had the chance to talk with the guru about WOTS The best thing about visiting this engine rebuilding shop was that it had lots of BMW engines with melted heads Anyway I timeserted that cylinder bank but I never touched the front (left) bank. Since the compression is fine on that one I guess there won´t be a problem. The gasket from the head I removed looked like new, all bolts were very tight and everything looked as good as new, except from the no 1 cylinder exhaust valves of course. It will be interesting so see if I ever get a problem with the left bank. +130000 miles still counting... The guru once said that the majority of headgasket faults on the Northstar engine had to do with neglecting the service of the coolant system so that leaves you to the unfortunate few with "natural causes". The question is if you had a major overheat destroying the gasket and/or if the headbolts have come loose because of that or if its something else. Many improvements has been done to eliminate this kind of failure, changing the type of coolant to require less frequent changes, different pitches on the head bolts, different headgasket etc. I´ve read on a different forum that headgasket failures wont´t be a problem on the Northstar engine anymore. On the new ones that is... Ok back to the subject again. My point is that anything can happen with any car. I know that it isn´t a comfort especially when everything has been extremely well maintained but think of it this way. In a poll here it seems that 15% had timeserted their engines. What if 9 out of 10 of them had to do with overheating going too far and/or bad maintained coolant system? That makes 1.5% out of them who woted on that poll. I don´t think that the problem is even that common, but that´s my opinion. Searching the internet I´ve read about a mechanic who claimed that he didn´t do anything else than replacing headgaskets on Volvo B23/B230 engines and they are supposed to be the best Volvo ever made reguarding the reliability, not to mention that cracked head seems to be equal "ususal". I´d rather change a gasket and drill a few holes than replace the head though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Green coolant and DexCool can be mixed in an emergency - When DexCool was developed, that was taken into consideration as someone could be in the middle of nowhere and not have access to DexCool. While you don't want to make that a regular practice, a capful won't hurt. If it bothers you, just drain and refill with fresh DexCool. Thanks Kevin, I think I will drop it ASAP anyway, but that makes me feel better, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 My memory of the green/Dexcool combination is that you would have to change coolant every two years instead of five. Bill, That is true if someone filled up the entire cooling system with green coolant. In BBF's case, he only added a very small amount. After the drain/refill (that I know he will do, ) all should be fine with 5-year drain intervals. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I cannot believe that one oz. of green coolant is going to cause any problems at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Thanks Kevin and Ranger! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I hope you're wrong Acklac7! I had my waterpump replaced by a family friend on our '93 Dodge Caravan atleast a year and a half ago and he put green in. It originally had orange, and I imagine he didn't drain out the orange completely. I noticed this months later when I checked the coolant and saw green. We haven't had any coolant related problems yet with the van...fingers crossed, knocking on wood! I guess I better change the coolant in it as well. Question is, what color to go with now?!?! Michael, Sorry to hear about your car! Just curious, have you always used the coolant supplements when doing your antifreeze changes? I believe your '93 should have originally been filled with the green coolant...As dexi-cool didn't come out untill 96(?). At any rate I was able to find the thread...Dexi-cool issues..Read the posts by "GreenMachine". (also remember that the C.O. board is quite different from C.I. board...There are some bright people over there...But sometimes you need to take things with a grain of salt..However im betting that GreenMachine is on the right track..Mainly b/c of the guru's similar warnings regarding this issue) I too changed over from conventional green to dexi-cool about 3 years ago...I remember the bobster said to fully flush the coolant system (multiple times..which I did) and make sure that there wasn't any green coolant left...I haven't had coolant related issues to report. And Michael...I would definitely conduct further tests to determine if the headgaskets are indeed failing....There have been a number of people (including you know who) who have seriously questioned the accuracy of the "gasses in the coolant" test. Hmmm, maybe you're right acklac. Maybe I was mistaking the '93 Dodge with my '96 Impala SS. Maybe it did always have the green. Thought I remembered seeing orange though...my memory is terrible anymore! Green coolant and DexCool can be mixed in an emergency - When DexCool was developed, that was taken into consideration as someone could be in the middle of nowhere and not have access to DexCool. While you don't want to make that a regular practice, a capful won't hurt. If it bothers you, just drain and refill with fresh DexCool. Thanks Kevin, I think I will drop it ASAP anyway, but that makes me feel better, Mike Mike, I would drop it too, and just to be safe, I would replace your surge tank, radiator, and heater coil as well> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 You read my mind (you forgot the hoses and cap, LOL) Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 You can keep the hoses and the cap... but its time to replace the rest of the car! Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 So true..... I see you can hear the ticking also.... :lol: Yesterday, I was behind an IDIOT on the 476 Blue Route (PA), you know the type, rubber necking, with an open road in front of him. We were just in 45 minutes of bumper to bumper and here is this putz doing 20 gawking. I was like WTF.... At 20 MPH, I WOT'd, leaving the scene in a cloud of WOT carbon cleaning smoke shifting at about 5500, Then I looked down and saw 226 degrees (from being in traffic) and said, BRILLIANT.... its a matter of time. She was back to 196 within a mile.... Yea baby (don't tell my wife but my daughter is becoming a WOT fan, she said she "likes the sound".... I said.... me too Em). The future Cadillac torch has been passed.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill K Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 (don't tell my wife but my daughter is becoming a WOT fan, she said she "likes the sound".... I said.... me too Em). The future Cadillac torch has been passed.. Carefull, carefull.....First comes the sound additiction and next comes the K&N. Just a warning from one additic to potentially another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Good forbid! We all love that sound! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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