Kent Moore Kit for oil consumption (j45076) tool

[brmurph]

I know most of us are familiar with the tech bulletin about excessive oil consumption  on the early NorthStar's but does anyone now how the Kent Moore tool works?  I have the ring cleaner chemical kit in the bulletin and would like to give it a try on my NorthStar but don't want to spend $400.00 or more on the tool.  Is anyone familiar enough with the procedure to be able to explain if I can do this without the tool?

Thanks in advance.   

[barczy01]

How many miles are on the car?

[rockfangd]

What year NorthStar are we referring to?

Does it leak any?

And how much oil are you going through?

My best solution for the 90s era is to drive them like they were designed to be. If you baby them or don't work them hard enough they will use more oil.

I have had 5 90s era ranging from 95-99 and have had higher consumption when I first bought them, but within a year The consumption dropped considerably.

Now the 00s I gave up on them. I had 2 and no matter what I did I had to look at the engine at least once a week while I added oil🙁. I sold them and bought another 97. I don't remember the last time I added oil since the oil change .

My miles range anywhere from 80k up through 220k. Same result.

If all else fails then it may be worth the investment to try to have it cleaned out but honestly I dont think anything is a guarantee. I personally have never used the Kent Moore tool for that

 

[brmurph]

Its a 98 Concours with 210,000 miles.  At 30,000 miles it would burn about a quart every 1700 miles, it has become worse and worse over the years even with many WOT's, I am at about 500 miles to the quart now, leaks very little if at all. .   The compression runs from 160-210 depending on the cylinder, if I add some oil to any cylinder it bumps up over 300, surprised me that it went that high but confirms a ring problem I believe.

I find it interesting that over the many years I have been following Cadillac forums many people have complained about oil burning but not many have talked about their experience with this technical bulletin (# 02-06-01-009C ).  Here is a link to the tool (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kent-Moore-J-45076-GM-Carbon-Removal-Tool/143488923809?hash=item21689b38a1:g:YuIAAOSwCuheDPdF)  It would seem I could do the same thing just by pouring the product into the cylinders and maybe adding some compressed air but not sure (hence the question on what this tool actually does).  

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by brmurph

[rockfangd]

I am not sure what oil you are running but my biggest suggestion is to run regular oil. Not synthetic.

I would say not synthetic blend but seems that is all that can be had.

I wish I could give you info on the tool but I have not used it.

 

[BodybyFisher]

Does it smoke out of the exhaust first thing in the morning?   That would indicate valve seals.

When you do a WOT, are you seeing billowing blue smoke?  No leaks is terrific.  

As rockfangd states, synthetic in a pre-2000 is a no no, too thin.  I suspect you would have tried one of the diesel oils either the Mobil or Rotella 15W40.  The guru always said it was fine in these engines, and given its ramped up zinc, its good for the flat tappet rubbing lifters.  

As you know, with the WOT procedure, its not just the WOT, but the deceleration in second gear that is very important as the rings are exercised.  

 

[brmurph]

Using regular mineral oil (Pennzoil 10w30, getting harder to find :-).    No smoke on start up and not much just cruising down the road but of course it blast some out during WOT.   I have tried the Rotella (there is another thread somewhere with my results), unfortunately it went from about 900 miles to the quart down to 400 miles a quart on the Rotella, it jumped back up to about 500 miles a quart once I went back to Pennzoil.

I have been on this board for a while so I remember learning about the WOT procedure from the Guru himself :-).  That being said Austin Traffic doesn't allow for that procedure too often..   I was doing WOT procedures just under 100,000 miles and that is when the head gaskets let loose (during the procedure 🙂), I am over 200,000 now and I think I have a small head gasket leak so I admit I don't do it as often as maybe I could but I do put the pedal down just about every time I drive it (on ramps and what not).   I really feel like new rings and head gasket would take this thing another 100,000 miles but I am not sure I am up for that much work..    Pouring something down the cylinders I could handle:-) .

Thanks

[rockfangd]

That is such a hard one.

I went through this with my 96 Deville.

Was the best and most favorite one, I had over 200k on it. The head issue started to occur and I did not want to go into it far because I did not want to accelerate it.

I ended up with 230k before the Headgasket failed. 

The body of the car and the failing torque converter made it not worth investing into the engine.

In my most honest opinion If you try to pour something in the cylinders to free up the rings and have a questionable head concern I would not chance it. Unless you have nothing to lose

[BodybyFisher]

17 hours ago, brmurph said:

Using regular mineral oil (Pennzoil 10w30, getting harder to find :-).    No smoke on start up and not much just cruising down the road but of course it blast some out during WOT.   I have tried the Rotella (there is another thread somewhere with my results), unfortunately it went from about 900 miles to the quart down to 400 miles a quart on the Rotella, it jumped back up to about 500 miles a quart once I went back to Pennzoil.

I have been on this board for a while so I remember learning about the WOT procedure from the Guru himself :-).  That being said Austin Traffic doesn't allow for that procedure too often..   I was doing WOT procedures just under 100,000 miles and that is when the head gaskets let loose (during the procedure 🙂), I am over 200,000 now and I think I have a small head gasket leak so I admit I don't do it as often as maybe I could but I do put the pedal down just about every time I drive it (on ramps and what not).   I really feel like new rings and head gasket would take this thing another 100,000 miles but I am not sure I am up for that much work..    Pouring something down the cylinders I could handle:-) .

Thanks

Please link me to the Rotella thread.   It is VERY hard to find the non synthetic Rotella, usually you see T6 and that is synthetic.  IF you used the synthetic version of Rotella that would explain the increased oil consumption as synthetic flows 7 times better.  I find it hard to believe that the Rotella 15W40 mineral non synthetic oil increased consumption.   

The full WOT procedure is a little harsh for a high mileage NS, the guru used to say take it to the red line, if I recall that is 5800 or 6200 depending upon your NS version.  I NEVER did that during a WOT procedure.  I took it up to 70 in second gear at 3/4 pedal and released to allow 2nd gear to create negative back pressure in the combustion chambers.  

That said, I blew the head gasket on my 96, entering a highway at 40 mph and flooring it to 90, BOOM, head gasket blown at about 125,000, immediate misfiring at next stop light.   My engine had its coolant changed regularly, but I have a theory about why it happened.  And I don't feel that what I did would be abusive on a healthy engine.  

If you had a head gasket leak, you would see higher operating temps, after mine blew, it ran at 217 after it blew and hated traffic running up to 235/240 quickly and I had a misfire.  

Confirm what Rotella you were using.   And yes, I do remember you from the guru days.

[brmurph]

Here you go  https://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/topic/51275-rotella-t-interesting-results/?tab=comments#comment-240444

This is my theory on my head gaskets:  First time the head bolts pulled and it overheated very quickly.  Since then the dealer installed the timeserts and I am thinking they are still holding but this time the head gasket is leaking just a little.     I have three issues that lead me to believe this might be the case.   First I quit using the coolant pills and I started getting the steam out the exhaust pretty bad, I added the pills and problem went away.  Second I have a miss that happens on start up but clears up within about 30 seconds or so and third I do have to add coolant every once in a while.   

 

Here is the Rotella I was using  

[BodybyFisher]

The is the 'mineral' oil, I would try 15W40 and see if that helps, that is along as you aren't located in a cold part of the country, then wait till spring.  We don't want the oil delayed getting to the top of the engine because of the cold.  The tops of the lifters are lubricated via splash lubrication. 

That certainly sounds like you are having some sort of head gasket issue.

It is possible because you have been forced to 'baby' it because of the head gasket symptoms, it really is in need of a good old WOT flogging, but you can't do it.

KHE, speaks of removing the spark plugs and injecting a little UEC in each cylinder a few quick cranks and let it sit overnight, you might do a search here, or even PM Kevin (KHE), it would be nice to see him maybe this will summon him >>> @KHE

This will sound like an odd question but do you always use Premium fuel?, if not what octane? 

[brmurph]

I pretty much always use premium unless I am on a road trip, around town I notice a big drop in performance using lower octane fuel (87).    I guess I could try 15W40 Rotella (in Texas BTW) but one thing I forgot to mention in my other thread (guess I should go update it) is that it also killed my CAT (P0420), that being said I have not replaced it yet so now would be the time to try it :-)..    I was kind of hoping KHE or Logan would chime in but I am starting to think not many people have experience with this bulletin except maybe the dealer.  

I might have missed it but I always wondered what happened to your Deville, I thought maybe it was too painful to talk about, now I know:-).   

BTW here is the bulletin number for oil burning because of stuck rings if anyone is interested 02-06-01-009C

Edited January 15, 2020 by brmurph
Added bulletin

[BodybyFisher]

While I know that there is a belief that zinc damages CATs, with all the oil tankers of oil that have flowed through NorthStar's over the years, we didn't have a rash of CAT failures, with the exception of 01/02 CATs that were problematic.   I tend to use this board as a poll indication of 'issues'.  

That said, it is the EPA that reduced the ZINC in oils, whilst at the same time increasing the CAT warranty from 80,000 miles to 120,000 miles.  There is a push to totally remove ZINC from oils.  If you do a google search zddp, zinc, cat damage, cat you will find that there is a lot information in both directions regarding the zinc's correlation to cat damage.  Me not being trusting of the EPA, gov, environmentalists am suspect of the motives.   Think>>>> lets get rid of old cars via cash for clunkers.  Older cars have rubbing element lifters, remove zinc.... destroy engine, don't pass go, go to junkyard.   Cat's do go bad, my 01 (I know, bad year) Chevy had a bad cat, but my friends Infinity needed cats, and my 91 Seville rattled and needed a new cat.   Do a search, on P0420 and bad cats, its not too popular.  

In addition, a lot of people damage their CATS by ignoring a check engine light that can stop the engine management system from going into closed loop causing the system to stay in open loop with its RICH mixture 100% of the time effectively dumping unburned fuel into the cats raising their temperature and ultimately destroying the cat.  

I have a lot of the guru's historical writings on oil consumption, Ill post it later, I just found it on my server looking for these photos.

I loved the 96, but as @rockfangd stated, when I blew the head gasket, started getting the P0741 converter slip, needed brake lines and I wasn't in the position to dive in and repair it, I let it go.  Here are best day and worst day photos, ☹️

[rockfangd]

11 hours ago, brmurph said:

Here you go  https://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/topic/51275-rotella-t-interesting-results/?tab=comments#comment-240444

This is my theory on my head gaskets:  First time the head bolts pulled and it overheated very quickly.  Since then the dealer installed the timeserts and I am thinking they are still holding but this time the head gasket is leaking just a little.     I have three issues that lead me to believe this might be the case.   First I quit using the coolant pills and I started getting the steam out the exhaust pretty bad, I added the pills and problem went away.  Second I have a miss that happens on start up but clears up within about 30 seconds or so and third I do have to add coolant every once in a while.   

This is exactly what I went through with my 96.

  

 

 

[KHE]

I did the ring cleaning procedure in a '97 STS I used to have.  There is no need for the Kent Moore tool.  The key is to let the top engine cleaner sit in the cylinders as long as possible.  It took me a couple of days - jacked up the rear of the car as high as I could to get the rear cylinders closer to level.  Poured in the TEC through the spark plug holes.  Let it sit for 24 hours, then lowered the rear and jacked up the front of the car, repeated the TEC injection and let it sit for another 24 hours.

Once the fronts were done, I used a MityVac vacuum pump to such as much of the TEC out of the cylinders as I could.  I disabled the ignition and with all eight spark plugs removed, cranked the engine until the TEC quit spewing out of the spark plug holes.

Next, change the engine oil as it will have a fair amount of TEC in it that seeps past the rings.

Start the engine and go for a drive.  Hammer it and it will smoke like crazy for a few miles until all the TEC burns off.  Then change the oil again after a couple hundred miles.

That procedure seemed to reduce the oil consumption but it's been so long ago I can't really remember.  The TEC is not cheap and you'll need several containers of it to do the job.

The Rotella 10W-30 is a great oil for these engines.

I do not miss the pre-2000 Northstars with respect to oil consumption.  I have a 2004 Deville and a 2005 Deville and it is very rare to have to add any oil between oil changes.

[BodybyFisher]

Thanks @KHE its good to see you, hope all is good!

[rockfangd]

11 hours ago, KHE said:

I did the ring cleaning procedure in a '97 STS I used to have.  There is no need for the Kent Moore tool.  The key is to let the top engine cleaner sit in the cylinders as long as possible.  It took me a couple of days - jacked up the rear of the car as high as I could to get the rear cylinders closer to level.  Poured in the TEC through the spark plug holes.  Let it sit for 24 hours, then lowered the rear and jacked up the front of the car, repeated the TEC injection and let it sit for another 24 hours.

Once the fronts were done, I used a MityVac vacuum pump to such as much of the TEC out of the cylinders as I could.  I disabled the ignition and with all eight spark plugs removed, cranked the engine until the TEC quit spewing out of the spark plug holes.

Next, change the engine oil as it will have a fair amount of TEC in it that seeps past the rings.

Start the engine and go for a drive.  Hammer it and it will smoke like crazy for a few miles until all the TEC burns off.  Then change the oil again after a couple hundred miles.

That procedure seemed to reduce the oil consumption but it's been so long ago I can't really remember.  The TEC is not cheap and you'll need several containers of it to do the job.

The Rotella 10W-30 is a great oil for these engines.

I do not miss the pre-2000 Northstars with respect to oil consumption.  I have a 2004 Deville and a 2005 Deville and it is very rare to have to add any oil between oil changes.

I must be lucky with my 90s ones. MY consumption is little if any. Just tender lovin Vrooms lol

[brmurph]

Thanks KHE and all :-).  I will most likely give that a try at some point and post results, meanwhile I found a nice 2004 DTS (Nice but not perfect) with 44,000 miles for $5600.00.  So far having a blast with it.   I'll add a pic with Concours in the background. 

[BodybyFisher]

Congratulations on the new car!

[rockfangd]

I love the green one in the background.

If   I were to look for a replacement for mine I think it would by a 2007 DTS. Had my eye on a few