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97 seville stumble


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Hi all. As I start to drive my Seville everyday(trying not to neglect my Deville) I have gone 350 miles so far, On the first tank I got about 285 miles which is great consiering it is better than my Deville.

But I have 2 problems that I am worried about. I have a shimmy around 60mph, and a stumble with light throttle from 30 mph to 70 mph average, It is especially noted when I accelerate to a desired speed and let off the throttle slightly, I am so worried about the dreaded P0741 TCC code. but I have to say it doesnt feel like a slip and the RPM gauge does not fluctuate, I can tell when the TCC kicks in by watching the tach drop and stay steady. If I hold steady speed and tap the brake I can watch the tach jump and drop showing me the torque convertor is disengaging and reengaging. No light or service transmission message.

I am only on my second tank of gas and I wanted to make sure to wait till the old gas was out of the system. In the first tank I ran Chevron Techron fuel system treatment.

Other than the stumble and the shimmy this car feels like new.

It came with 4 new tires, I replaced the left front hub assembly, and put top line brakes in front. I feel no play in front so I suspect maybe rear knuckle bushings.

My main concern is the stumble though. I went 176 miles saturday and this morning when I started the car the check engine light came on for a P0135, o2 sensor code. I believe B1S1.

I hope we have some insight on this as I really like this car and things can be very difficult to detect problems.

Only code I have currently is the P0135

thanks all in advance and happy reading

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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P0135 Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Heater Performance Bank 1 Sensor 1

This means that the heater for the main oxygen sensor on the rear bank, the one that the fuel injection uses to monitor the mixture. If the MIL is on then your PCM is seeing the fault as current and is running your engine in narrow-band mode, i.e. the mixture in the rear bank is controlled for all four cylinders but not for each cylinder individually, so that differences in fuel injectors etc. can cause variations in the mixture. My 1997 FSM page 6-350 does not say that the PCM runs the engine in the open-loop mode, which is what I would have expected.

The P0135 code means that the oxygen sensor is working, but it doesn't have a waveform on it, which means that the oxygen sensor is working but the heater is not.

The diagnosis chart tells the tech to check the voltage on the oxygen sensor heater. The 10 Amp fuse in the engine compartment fuse/relay center labeled OXY SEN 2 may be bad, the connector may be loose or dirty on the oxygen sensor, or you may have a problem with the wiring or ground to the oxygen sensor.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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so you are stating this could cause a stumble, it does it with or without the SES light.

I am going to replace the sensor as the code came once before and I just replaced the B2S1 sensor also.

Any idea how difficult the sensor is to change?

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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Could you discribe this stumble as a 'fishbite'?

If you would, search fishbite, there is some history.

This sounds like a lean mixture to me. When you take your foot of the gas, manifold vacuum increases and you might be sucking air. Look at the EGR tube for tightness, holes, and check the intake manifold gaskets and anything else that could cause a vacuum leak

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Is it a shimmy or a vibration?

Your "stumble" at light throttle sounds a lot like my '97 after the fuel rail recall. The problem turned out to be plug wires.

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I have both. I was thinking maybe plug wires also. When the dealer did the engine job they did replace the spark plugs but not the wires,

Didnt the 4.6 come with 8mm wires? mine has 7mm wires?? been changed before?

the shimmy is especially noted at higher speeds but I am thinking maybe rear knuckle bushings.

will research fishbite and post my results in the morning.

Anyone know difficulty of rear bank manifold o2 sensor

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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All the HO2 sensors are easy to change but some are easier to get a wrench onto than others. The top rear one is the worst one. The 1997 FSM, page 6-693, says to drop the cradle "no more than 3 inches" to get to it.

Things that the FSM says about all four oxygen sensors:

  • "Remove the oxygen sensors with the engine temperature about 48 C (120 F). Otherwise the oxygen sensors may be difficult to remove."
  • "Take care when handling oxygen sensors. The electrical connector and louvered end must be kept free of contaminants. Do not use cleaning solvents on the sensor. Do not drop or mishandle the sensor."
  • "A special anti-seize compound is used on the oxygen sensor threads. New service sensors should already have the compound applied to the threads. Coat the threads of a reused sensor with anti-seize compound P/N 5613695 or equivalent."
  • Oxygen sensor torque is 30 lb-ft (41 N-m). Cradle bolt torque is 74 lb-ft (100 N-m).

To me, dropping the cradle is my threshold for asking my mechanic to do the job because I don't have a way to do that conveniently, and my garage isn't heated.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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well luckily I have the o2 sensor socket set, so hopefully I can do it without dropping the cradle.

Thanks for the info

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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I replaced the rear bank O2 sensor on my 96 Deville, it was easy, no need to drop cradle, straight down, use your socket, warm up the muffler system in advance, I cant remember when I needed to remove, maybe the coil pack. I used an 18 inch breaker bar, bam came right out

Not sure if this is the same on a Seville in terms of access

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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well I tried to replace the sensor tonight and unfortunately I could not do it. if it wasnt for the coolant pipes it might have been possible.. gave up for now. maybe once the weather warms up. maybe I will get lucky and the light wont come back on. I swear it looked like the sensor was not plugged in all the way and the blue lck was hanging (not inserted) so I plugged it in firm till it clicked and installed the lock clip, and reset the light. the technician statd it is very common that the o2 sensors go bad with the headgasket problem due to contamination, but why didnt he tell me this while it was apart lol

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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  • 3 weeks later...

well have to update this. problem is torque convertor.

Having ca hard time engaging and causing a shudder until engaged.

No codes yet but any ideas on if the TCC solenid might help?

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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well have to update this. problem is torque convertor.

Having ca hard time engaging and causing a shudder until engaged.

No codes yet but any ideas on if the TCC solenid might help?

I posted this once before someplace, if you saw it disregard it, there is some interesting ideas in it some of which are funny, and some good thoughts

http://www.automotiv...r_symptoms.html

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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made me laugh.

well it has a few symptoms

1. it shudders for about 5 seconds at a steady speed then the tach drops and it is ok.

2. if i let the car slow down from a higher speed without hitting the brakes once I get down to abut 15 the tach jumps up and down and it almost feels like it wants to stall.(convertor stuck on I assume)

3. noise coming from the trans.noted in the driver side wheelwell towards the front. (mechanic stated bad bearing but was unsure???)

4. the weird part. no code yet. (notice I said yet)

wish I culd post a sound clip of the noise. It can be heard in park or neutral but not in gear. very hard to explain the noise

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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very upsetting right now because my pot of gold has run dry. I figure if I can make it till next year I can get it rebuilt and hope for the best.

I must say this car has been expensive. I try not to let it bother me lol. sometimes I feel better looking at it than driving it. But I have my Deville which I love also. Let this be a lesson. Drive them hard and DO NOT LET THEM SIT

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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