93SixtySpecial Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 I got home last night after a 120 mile drive and right before I got home I got a "Check Coolant Level" message. I accelerate hard a couple of times, but the temp never even went over 200 (I was only acelarating from 20-40, but WOT). I got out of the car and could smell a hint of coolant. So today I added some coolant and it took about 3/4 gallon. I looked and looked for leaks and couldn't find a thing. I let the car warm up and decided to whip out my block tester just for kicks and giggles. I was a bit startled when I got the results. Could this be the beginning of a HG failure? Did I catch it really early? I smelled the exhaust, but it didn't seem to smell. I checked the box of the block tester and it said it may turn green if used on a diesel, but yellow if used on a gas (if combustion gases are detected). -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I would not worry about a HG until and when you start to overheat. If you smell coolant, it's an external leak and that is NOT a HG symptom. Many leak point are hidden and very hard, if not impossible to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I would not worry about a HG until and when you start to overheat. If you smell coolant, it's an external leak and that is NOT a HG symptom. Many leak point are hidden and very hard, if not impossible to see. Thanks Ranger, that made me feel a lot better. But why would it be turning it green? Everywhere I looked on the net, it said that green is the beginning of a HG failure and if it's all out yellow, then it's really shot. Is there maybe something else that would make it green? Maybe the external leak is somehow making it change colors? -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyjaws Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 nope you have a blown head gaskit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 nope you have a blown head gaskit And how did you determine THAT????? I am curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elitensupreme Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 If it were me just to be safe I would put in the pellets GMC makes. Quickly before any small leaks become major. I bought some and the guys were telling me that they are pretty amazing in terms of miracles performed. Hope you caught it early and they save you from a big problem down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 If it were me just to be safe I would put in the pellets GMC makes. Quickly before any small leaks become major. I bought some and the guys were telling me that they are pretty amazing in terms of miracles performed. Hope you caught it early and they save you from a big problem down the road. You read my mind. I know the previous owner changed the coolant at the correct intervals, but I have no idea if they actually put those sealant tablets in. I figured it can't hurt. Those tablets just go in the top radiator hose, correct? -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 The coolant smell can come from so many places, my coolant smell came from the crossover seals, but the end tanks, water pump body seal, tank, cap and heater pipes behind the engine are also possibilities of smell and coolant loss. I cooling system pressure test would help you find the leak At 245,000 miles that Northstar owes you nothing and GM should be proud of that engine, consider that mine blew at about 128K and many blow in the 90K to 120K range. Keep your fingers crossed, that color change is obviously not a great thing to see. It is rare for the head gasket to leak externally, so I wouldnt think that would be your smell. Try a full dose of cooling supplement, crushed into the upper hose to lessen the coolant smell. As Jim noted below, the supplement will not stop a HG breach. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 The coolant smell can come from so many places, my coolant smell came from the crossover seals, but the end tanks, water pump body seal, tank, cap and heater pipes behind the engine are also possibilities of smell and coolant loss. I cooling system pressure test would help you find the leak At 245,000 miles that Northstar owes you nothing and GM should be proud of that engine, consider that mine blew at about 128K and many blow in the 90K to 120K range. Keep your fingers crossed, that color change is obviously not a great thing to see. It is rare for the head gasket to leak externally, so I wouldnt think that would be your smell. Try a full dose of cooling supplement, crushed into the upper hose maybe you can get more time if its at the beginning. I don't blame the Northstar at all for this. It had a good run (if it is failing). I'm not going to mess around with a head gasket, if that is in fact what is wrong. I'll cut my loses and sell it to someone who has a used engine for it or who wants to tackle the job. In the meantime, I'm going to put those tablets in and find that leak. I'll put the tablets in tonight and try the block tester again, just to see if it helps at all. I'm glad I caught it early though. -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 The test says that if it turns yellow, you have head leakage. It turned green. Thus it passed. If you have doubts, call the people who make the kit. In the meantime, I would have your coolant tested for being old or contaminated. If you are concerned about having the beginning of head leakage, have your coolant tested by a radiator shop. The pellets will stop small external leaks but will have no effect on the head gasket. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 The test says that if it turns yellow, you have head leakage. It turned green. Thus it passed. If you have doubts, call the people who make the kit. In the meantime, I would have your coolant tested for being old or contaminated. If you are concerned about having the beginning of head leakage, have your coolant tested by a radiator shop. The pellets will stop small external leaks but will have no effect on the head gasket. Sounds good. How much do they need to have it tested? Can I just bring over a few ounces or do I need quite a bit? So I crush the pellets and put them in the top radiator hose. Then do I just reconnect, fill and drive like normal or is there a special procedure? How many pellets should I use? I was reading the instructions and they said that diesels turn green. That's very odd. What makes me worried though is that when I tested it last year, it did not change color at all and I tested my 93 and it didn't change color. Blue and yellow make green, so maybe it's detecting a very small amount of gas, but enough to change it a little bit of the way, but not enough to change it to yellow. I'm going to confirm with a radiator shop though. -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I think that the recommended "dose" for a Northstar is six pellets, assuming that there is no stop-leak in the coolant. There is no particular procedure, other than driving around the block until the car warms up completely (the temperature gauge pointing straight up). The top radiator hose goes right through the thermostat into the water pump which ensures that things are mixed pretty well in short order. I understand your concern. But we don't know what chemical reaction that the kit you have uses to turn its solution from blue to yellow. What it most likely is doing is passing gases from your cooling system through a pH indicator, probably bromothymol blue. If so, then what it is sensing is some acidic fumes. These are apparently there but very slight and are thus not likely head leakage. That's why I suggested that you get your coolant tested for being out-of-date because it may be going acidic on you. If so, you just need a coolant flush and new coolant. But, the only way to know for sure is to have a *real* test, where analysis is done to determine the concentration of CO and unburnt hydrocarbons in your coolant. For a good time, follow these links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH_Indicator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_indicator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromothymol_blue -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I think that the recommended "dose" for a Northstar is six pellets, assuming that there is no stop-leak in the coolant. There is no particular procedure, other than driving around the block until the car warms up completely (the temperature gauge pointing straight up). The top radiator hose goes right through the thermostat into the water pump which ensures that things are mixed pretty well in short order. I understand your concern. But we don't know what chemical reaction that the kit you have uses to turn its solution from blue to yellow. What it most likely is doing is passing gases from your cooling system through a pH indicator, probably bromothymol blue. If so, then what it is sensing is some acidic fumes. These are apparently there but very slight and are thus not likely head leakage. That's why I suggested that you get your coolant tested for being out-of-date because it may be going acidic on you. If so, you just need a coolant flush and new coolant. But, the only way to know for sure is to have a *real* test, where analysis is done to determine the concentration of CO and unburnt hydrocarbons in your coolant. For a good time, follow these links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH_Indicator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_indicator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromothymol_blue Very interesting, thanks for the insight! I think I'm going to replace the thermostat while I'm in there since it has never been replaced. I think the coolant has about 30,000 on it right now. I'm going to scan my entire maintenance history in tonight so I can look at it again. I can't say for sure, but I'm assuming there is no stop leak in there. I know I haven't put any in, but that isn't saying anything about the last guy. I'll post after I do some research tonight. -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I think that the recommended "dose" for a Northstar is six pellets, assuming that there is no stop-leak in the coolant. Are you sure it's 6? I just bought a package of 5 and it says that 5 will treat 32 quarts. I looked in my manual and the entire system is a little over 12. Would 3 do the trick? -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 My 1997 FSM, page 0B-9, says the cooling system capacity is 12.5 quarts. I found the pellets on the NAPA web site but didn't see a recommendation; I would follow BodybyFisher's recommendation. The NAPA page on these pellets: http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=NCBHDC_0006405929# -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott y Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Jim, doesn't the lower rad hose connect to the thermo and WP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Link didn't work for me. Yeah, the lower radiator hose has the thermostat, I just noticed that too when I pulled it off. -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Apparently no one in this town actually tests the coolant itself. I called numerous places and they do it the same way I am doing it. I find that kind of odd. Some places say they have heard of testing the coolant itself, but others say they haven't even heard of that before. I'm kinda at a loss right now on how to get it tested. -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott y Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Link didn't work for me. Yeah, the lower radiator hose has the thermostat, I just noticed that too when I pulled it off. I personally have always added 3 crushed up tabs to the lower rad hose,with the thermostat open,which means HOT coolant...but I also only applied them when changing the coolant(anually for me),so you are dropping the coolant out safely into a bucket.Remove lower rad hose alowing coolant to be released add the pellets and reapply the hose and top off as necessary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott y Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 When I say remove the lower hose I mean at the WP end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Well, I put in 3.5 pellets and all seems good. I also replaced the thermostat too. So far it seems the car warms up much quicker. I'm wondering if the spring on the old thermostat was weak and letting too much water pass when it didn't need to be. I also bought some new block tester fluid because I thought mine was old. I did the test again and it actually looked more yellow than the first time I did it (this was before I started messing with the thermostat and such. I checked it after I changed out the thermostat and such and it was much less yellowish-greenish and more bluish. And this was after running it for about 10 miles. Could this indicate that maybe my coolant is just acidic? I had a question though. If the coolant was acidic, how would the fluid in the tester change to green? Does the coolant let off gases when it gets acidic? This thing only checks gases, not coolant itself. -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 The number of tabs is not all that critical. Go with 4. Putting them in the upper hose is the easiest and they will dissolve as soon as they get wet. No need to crush them if you don't want to. Personally, I don't like them. I'd prefer to locate and repair rather than band aid the leak. They have a tendency to clog heater cores and purge lines. GM quit using them and so have I. JimD, on the other hand uses and loves them. Your choice. As for the color of your test, green would concern me, BUT if you are not using coolant or overheating, I would not worry much. It might be the PH as mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott y Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Aren't he tabs a must on the pre 2000 Northstar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93SixtySpecial Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 As for the color of your test, green would concern me, BUT if you are not using coolant or overheating, I would not worry much. It might be the PH as mentioned. I'm not overheating, but my check coolant message came on and I was 3/4 of a gallon low. But I did smell coolant, so I'm hoping it's an external leak. -Dusty- 2006 Cadillac DTS Glacier Gold Tri-Coat with 175,000 miles 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special Gold Mist with 185,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott y Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Fingers are crossed here,however if you do smell coolant as you know that is "good" as opposed to not smelling it.You must know from all the posts here that they do have multiple leak areas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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