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intermittent starting


Kodiak

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Hello everyone! I have an 01 STS with 114k miles. The car doesn't always start. You turn the key to "on" and everything lights up. You can hear the fuel pump. You can hear a few switches under the dash.... and turn the key over to "start".... nothing happens. I try several times and finally it starts. I had it in to a local shop and after 3 days finally they reproduced the problem and decided the battery wasn't taking a charge... I went along with that idea but now after a few months it's getting worse. It only seems to act up when I've driven it and have it parked anywhere from 45 minutes up to a couple of hours.. stone cold and sitting for weeks in the garage- it starts great. Hot and only parked a few minutes... starts every time! But somewhere in a cooling down period it acts up. One thing I noticed is, when cold, sometimes you turn the key and the starter engages immediately, other times there is a delay of a second or two before the starter engages... don't know if its related. I thought I read in here once about the security being an issue but in my searches I only come up with cars being dead and not starting or unrelated issues. Could someone point me in some direction? This problem has happened for a couple years but very rarely. Now its every 3 or 4 times I drive it. Thanks in advance!!

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The first thing to do is check the fuel pressure regulator.

Pull the little rubber line and check for any sign of fuel leaks.

If there is "ANY" sign... replace the fuel pressure regulator.

Hard starting when engine is hot is a common sigh of a bad fuel pressure regulator.

The next thing to do is take the battery cables off and clean them very, very well.

The POSITIVE cable is actually a "SANDWICH" type cable and needs to be taken apart and each piece of it cleaned.

You state.......

(quote...You can hear a few switches under the dash.... and turn the key over to "start".... nothing happens.... end quote)

Do you mean that the starter engages and turns the engine and it does not start... or do you mean that the starter "DOES NOT" engage at all.

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("Do you mean that the starter engages and turns the engine and it does not start... or do you mean that the starter "DOES NOT" engage at all.")

The sounds I hear under the dash are normal... finish turning the key to "start" and I get nothing... Starter/ solenoid is not engaging. Not doing anything. As if the shifter wasn't in place. I keep trying it (turning the key) it eventually starts. The car hasn't left me stranded, yet. One time I got out of the car, relocked it, unlocked it, back in the car and it started right up. Next time I tried that it didn't work. If it were the fuel pressure regulator wouldn't it still turn over? Or is that on a sensor too and won't even engage the starter if it doesn't get a proper reading? I will try the codes the next time it acts up. I just printed how to get the codes from Caddyinfo and will have that in the car with me.

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("Do you mean that the starter engages and turns the engine and it does not start... or do you mean that the starter "DOES NOT" engage at all.")

The sounds I hear under the dash are normal... finish turning the key to "start" and I get nothing... Starter/ solenoid is not engaging. Not doing anything. As if the shifter wasn't in place. I keep trying it (turning the key) it eventually starts. The car hasn't left me stranded, yet. One time I got out of the car, relocked it, unlocked it, back in the car and it started right up. Next time I tried that it didn't work. If it were the fuel pressure regulator wouldn't it still turn over? Or is that on a sensor too and won't even engage the starter if it doesn't get a proper reading? I will try the codes the next time it acts up. I just printed how to get the codes from Caddyinfo and will have that in the car with me.

Yes, it would still turn over if it was the FPR.

It would just take a lot longer to actually START.

I am assuming that you have looked at the dash lights and they do not go dim or off when you go to "START."

Next time it happens, if you have someone with you... raise the hood and have them turn it to "START" and see if you hear any "CLICK" from the top of the engine.

If that is true... I would be leaning towards a bad starter solenoid at this point.

The big copper washer inside the solenoid can get burned spots on it over time and cause problems with the solenoid engaging.

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Have you tried wiggling the gear shift when this no start occurs?

The very first thing I tried was wiggling the shifter. That is exactly how it acts though. Like the shift lever never made it all the way into "park". I even wiggled it while holding the key to start. Easy way to check a loose wire, right? I didnt try running the shift lever down and up through the gears as Bruce suggests. I will next time.

Texas Jim,

The interior lights and headlights do not dim like a bad starter. I hear no clicking from the solenoid. Thats sorta why this thing is getting annoying, the usual classic symptoms aren't there. Changing the battery helped for about two months, it seems. Once I found the positive cable loose at a junction box under the hood. That seemed to help... until it happened again.

I dont drive the car much, about 24k in 4 yrs. I have a truck I work out of. I bought the car to relieve my truck from some of the mileage when I'm not working. My truck has 265k on it.

I did get some codes from the Caddy...

DIM U1255

IRC U1016

PCM P0340

RIM U1255

TTM U1016

As always I appreciate any help. Thanks

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I did get some codes from the Caddy...

DIM U1255

IRC U1016

PCM P0340

RIM U1255

TTM U1016

As always I appreciate any help. Thanks

My recent (six month) experience has been similar with a soon-to-be thirteen year old Seville at 192,xxx miles. None of the above codes provide a clue as to the root cause of the problem you describe.

In my case, I suspect the key transponder or the ignition switch assembly transponder electronics. Neither of which will flag a code.

What I have been doing is --

A: Rotate the key 180 degrees and try again.

B: Try another key.

C: If A: and B: both fail, I very slowly rotate the key CCW from the START position without reaching the OFF position and rotate CW back to the START position.

Failing all of that, what always works (for me) is putting a little (very little) "foward" pressure on the key when rotating to START.

As I speak, I am in the middle of a 2,100 mile round trip without fear of being "stranded".

Jim

Drive your car.

Use your cell phone.

CHOOSE ONE !

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Thanks JimD,

I was carrying the spare key for awhile, but it didn't act up, so I didn't get to try that. Guess I'll start carrying it with me. As far as rotating the key 180 and back, there is a combination or the fact that I keep trying, that seems to get it started. I was thinking transponder too, but I only know the basics about them... reading the chip embedded in the key ie; security. I remember GM keys where the chip was exposed. What does it take to test that? or replace it? Being intermittent its a probable P.I.T.A! I'm no electrical engineer, but I'm not scared of it either... I only end up with a few extra parts :)

I'll try a few things as it happens and report back. I just don't get much time to drive the car and then it doesn't happen everytime.

Thanks to everyone

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Is there an aftermarket alarm installed in the car? possibly there is a cut-off relay that has been acting up. From what you provided, it sounds like it is an electrical issue that is cutting off power to the starter.

You might want to check out what is clicking. best time to troubleshoot is when it is acting up. when in that scenario, wiggle a few wires, tap a few fuses and relays etc.

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Is there an aftermarket alarm installed in the car? possibly there is a cut-off relay that has been acting up. From what you provided, it sounds like it is an electrical issue that is cutting off power to the starter.

I am the second owner. There was a remote start. The only way I knew was the warning sticker in the engine compartment. I looked under the dash and all I found was remnants of a cell phone hands-free kit that I finished removing the adapter and speaker. Doesnt mean it isnt still up under the dash. I'll look again.

It was missing key fobs when I bought it. (for the doors, trunk, etc). I got a pair off ebay and had the local locksmith reset the computer to them. I asked about a remote start and he suggested not to put one on the STS as it will screw up the security system. Too bad the original owner wasn't told that.

Also just a note, dont think it would matter too much but this car is a Canadian model. Living near the border its easy to find these at a local car lot. The kids think its cool the speedo reads 240! almost dont want to tell them its km/h!

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There is a button on your dash to switch the dash from Metric to Eng, look for a button.. You can set it to the American standard ENG (miles)

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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There is a button on your dash to switch the dash from Metric to Eng, look for a button.. You can set it to the American standard ENG (miles)

I drive it in english for sure... but it doesn't change the numbers on the speedo just the position of the pointer. Thats why kids will see that and ask "wow does this car really do 240?" I leave the digital readout on because it's easier to read. There are a lot of numbers crammed onto the metric speedometer! If you haven't seen one, check it out.

post-4409-127017908877_thumb.jpg

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Oh, I see, I misunderstood. Thanks

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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An intermittent start relay might cause your problem. I'm pretty sure one of the other relays in the under hood fuse block should be the same type as the start relay. If you swap that with the start relay and then find an intermittent condition in the circuit that donated the "new" start relay, you will have found a bad relay.

I'd also suggest checking for solid connections on the 10A PCM IGN fuse and the 30A START circuit breaker.

2001StarterSeville.gif

Note that the ground return for the start relay is completed through the PCM module. PCM modules rarely fail, however the connector on the module sometimes becomes corroded. I would suggest removing the connector and inspecting/cleaning it. Of course, you'd do this with the battery disconnected. Pay close attention to connector #44.

2001PCMSeville.gif

Here's a little help locating the under hood relays:

2001FuseBlockSeville.gif

START 1 Relay 36

Cooling Fan - Left, COOL FAN 2 Relay 37

COOL FAN S/P Relay 39

IGN 1 Relay 38

COOLFAN 1 Relay 40

START Circuit Breaker 41

Regards,

Warren

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There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

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I did get some codes from the Caddy...

DIM U1255

IRC U1016

PCM P0340

RIM U1255

TTM U1016

As always I appreciate any help. Thanks

My recent (six month) experience has been similar with a soon-to-be thirteen year old Seville at 192,xxx miles. None of the above codes provide a clue as to the root cause of the problem you describe.

I also have the intermittent start problem. I have a 2001 STS w/ 67K on it. The problem occurs using two different keys. It has always started within 15 minutes. I keep trying it and also put some pressure to the side of the key while turning it. I too suspect it has something to do with the transponder or ignition switch.

In my case, I suspect the key transponder or the ignition switch assembly transponder electronics. Neither of which will flag a code.

What I have been doing is --

A: Rotate the key 180 degrees and try again.

B: Try another key.

C: If A: and B: both fail, I very slowly rotate the key CCW from the START position without reaching the OFF position and rotate CW back to the START position.

Failing all of that, what always works (for me) is putting a little (very little) "foward" pressure on the key when rotating to START.

As I speak, I am in the middle of a 2,100 mile round trip without fear of being "stranded".

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