Tune-up complete!

[BostonETC97]

I just got back upstairs from replacing the plugs! The past week, my annoying morning-misfire developed into a moderate misfire until completely warmed up, and then became a full-time misfire last night. I finally got off my rear, and broke out the tool kit. (I used the term 'misfire' excessively in the above paragraph.)

I figured I'd start by just replacing the plugs and NOT the wires, as I did the wires about 3 years ago. Plugs came out with no real trouble, but I was quite nervous about damaging the threads! I waited until the engine was cold, and loosened them VERY gently. I got nervous re-installing #1, as it kept getting easier to turn as it was being tightened, and didn't feel like it was tightening. (This was after starting it by hand three times!) It eventually torqued-down nicely, with no problems.

I was a little alarmed by the condition of the #1 and #3 plugs, as they seem to be getting a good soaking of oil. Not sure what to make of this, but I'm not loosing sleep yet.

Total time with a water-break was an hour, and it was an overall 'enjoyable' experience. Runs incredibly smooth now, with no more misfire! I guess the wires are OK for now.

Here are some pics... see the entire gallery at http://s531.photobucket.com/albums/dd356/B...ETC97/Tune-up/

[Ranger]

I was a little alarmed by the condition of the #1 and #3 plugs, as they seem to be getting a good soaking of oil.

Rather common. It's just a leaky O ring seal on the cam cover for the plug well.

[BostonETC97]

Well, I guess I may have spoke a little too soon! While the initial misfire is gone, I now have a different misfire at idle. Feels like the car is shaking, but only at idle. I checked for bad connections (both electrical and vacuum) and couldn't find anything. Code 0300 appeared once (not surprising).

Should the next step be ordering a new set of wires? While they appear ok, and are less than 4 years old, should that be my first suspect?

Thanks for the help!

[BodybyFisher]

Well, I guess I may have spoke a little too soon! While the initial misfire is gone, I now have a different misfire at idle. Feels like the car is shaking, but only at idle. I checked for bad connections (both electrical and vacuum) and couldn't find anything. Code 0300 appeared once (not surprising).

Should the next step be ordering a new set of wires? While they appear ok, and are less than 4 years old, should that be my first suspect?

Thanks for the help!

See this thread, I have the same problem, I believe I have a blown head gasket. I am not trying to panic you, just that you have a very similar problem. Take the cap off your coolant tank and smell your coolant for exhaust fumes:

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21205

[BostonETC97]

Hmmm. Don't scare me! I've been noticing that my temperature has been creeping up to 230-238 after some spirited highway driving lately. It's also been in the high 80s and humid, if that counts for anything. I haven't lost any coolant, and the exhaust just smells kinda sulfury, but not coolant-y or sweet. But I do admit to walking on eggshells when it comes to thinking of the head gaskets.

I just ordered the 748J wire set for $64 on Amazon. A few of the wires looked very nasty last night, but they're all still quite pliable, not the "cracked" look you'd expect on a failing wire.

If the wire-set doesn't fix it, I might have to start examining the head-gasket. While I would have absolutely NO right to be upset, as the car now has 120k on it, I'm not sure what I'd do as far as replacing them goes. My mechanic already told me he's happy to do oil changes, alternators, etc., but not to bother him when the head-gaskets blow. I think I've been banned from all the GM dealers in a 50 mile vicinity. This could be an issue!

Isn't there some guy up in Canada who rebuilds these motors using studs? Perhaps I'll have to load the car onto a trailer, and take a LONG drive, and spend a few days up north. I guess my mind is running now...

[BodybyFisher]

Yes, I am sorry to scare you, but its a possibilty. Of course do all of the diagnostics. I am not losing much coolant either. After you start in the morning tromp your gas pedal to the floor and it usually clears the mis, that was my experience. I have 127K miles. See www.northstarperformance.com for the stud fix.

I am missing on my #1 and #3 cylinders. Look at your plugs are any burned WHITE? My #1 and #3 were burned WHITE. I overheat quickly now after a highway run, when I come to a stop, I am overheating driving around town, what I consider overheating anyway, I am running 217 to 233 around town stop and go, as I go to highway speed it will drop down to 205 or so.

Good luck and do all diagnostics, to confirm, if you need a list to look at let me know, but the thread I provided to you, if you look through it, gives you some background.

I have not done the coolant combustion by products test (but can smell the exhaust fumes in my coolant)

[BostonETC97]

Interesting! My #1 and #3 were completely oil-soaked. The business end of the plug looked normal, with a nice brownish color, but the upper end and threads were totally saturated in a significant amount of oil. While an oil-seal on the cam-cover isn't the biggest of deals, would it be significant we're both finding #1 and 3 to be trouble-makers?

(And my next scary question... are those cylinders typically the ones that get the coolant when the heads go south?)

[BodybyFisher]

Interesting! My #1 and #3 were completely oil-soaked. The business end of the plug looked normal, with a nice brownish color, but the upper end and threads were totally saturated in a significant amount of oil. While an oil-seal on the cam-cover isn't the biggest of deals, would it be significant we're both finding #1 and 3 to be trouble-makers?

(And my next scary question... are those cylinders typically the ones that get the coolant when the heads go south?)

No that is not related at all, your cam spark plug seals are leaking on those cylinders most probably. I was able to determine that #1 and #3 were misfiring from my Autotap, you might be misfiring on different cylinders. Do any of your plug tips look different than the others?

See this link

http://www.aa1car.com/library/misfire.htm

A spark plug that shows heavy whitish to brown deposits may indicate a coolant leak either past the head gasket or through a crack in the combustion chamber.

[BostonETC97]

I got some interesting results now. First thing I did was go back downstairs, pull the cap off the coolant tank, and take a deep whiff. No exhaust fumes. But the entire filler-neck and bottom of the cap where covered with a brownish "mud" I've NEVER seen before. I had the coolant changed when I replaced my radiator last fall, and added some a couple months ago, after fixing a minor hose leak to the tank. I realize its just the residue from the supplement (I never added more supplement, ever.) I just find it a little suspect how its coating the filler neck of the tank, so suddenly. Never seen that happen in the past!

I took the wires off each plug, and re-connected them until I knew there was a positive 'snap.' I drove the car for an hour, and it was perfect. After and hour, a mild misfire returned. To me, this hints at weak wires, that act up when they're hot.

Another anomaly... she started getting VERY hot in traffic... just shy of the red mark. Now I'm hoping its going to be the purge-line, plugged with that 'mud' crap that's taking over my expansion tank.

I've had a crush on the new Maserati GranTurismo. Maybe now I have a reason to test-drive one? (Because that car won't be chalk-full-o'problems the day it's off warranty!!!)

[slayer129978]

Boston i have the same mud looking stuff in mine too, I have no idea what its from and i havent really worried about it, But now that i've found someone else i will be keeping an eye on this post, Let me know if you find anything out about it. I'm hoping its not from exhaust.

[BostonETC97]

I'm still holding onto my hope that the headgasket is OK. While the early stages of HG failure seem to manifest themselves in many ways, I wasn't able to get any boil-over, exhaust odor in the surge tank while running, or coolant odor out the exhaust at start-up. I'm fairly confident my misfire is wire-related, as it cleared itself up for a while after I flexed the wires around and re-set them.

I had the waterpump and thermostat replaced about 6 years ago, and the radiator replaced last fall after the side-tank developed a leak. Tomorrow I'll try clearing out the purge lines. If that doesn't fix it, I'll do the thermostat. At that point, your guess is as good as mine!

If the worst-case scenario is true, I'll probably have to find a way to get the car over to Northstar Performance. I like the idea of the studs, and their solution will probably cost significantly less than any I can find around here. It'll just be a matter of getting the car there, somehow. (Is Toronto a fun city to spend a few days?!? I've never been...)

[adallak]

I got some interesting results now. First thing I did was go back downstairs, pull the cap off the coolant tank, and take a deep whiff. No exhaust fumes. But the entire filler-neck and bottom of the cap where covered with a brownish "mud" I've NEVER seen before. I had the coolant changed when I replaced my radiator last fall, and added some a couple months ago, after fixing a minor hose leak to the tank. I realize its just the residue from the supplement (I never added more supplement, ever.) I just find it a little suspect how its coating the filler neck of the tank, so suddenly. Never seen that happen in the past!

I took the wires off each plug, and re-connected them until I knew there was a positive 'snap.' I drove the car for an hour, and it was perfect. After and hour, a mild misfire returned. To me, this hints at weak wires, that act up when they're hot.

Another anomaly... she started getting VERY hot in traffic... just shy of the red mark. Now I'm hoping its going to be the purge-line, plugged with that 'mud' crap that's taking over my expansion tank.

I've had a crush on the new Maserati GranTurismo. Maybe now I have a reason to test-drive one? (Because that car won't be chalk-full-o'problems the day it's off warranty!!!)

Probably the coolant got really hot, expanded more than it ever has done before and covered the filler neck with Bars Leaks.

[BodybyFisher]

Boston i have the same mud looking stuff in mine too, I have no idea what its from and i havent really worried about it, But now that i've found someone else i will be keeping an eye on this post, Let me know if you find anything out about it. I'm hoping its not from exhaust.

Explain yourself this post is vague.

What are you going to keep your eye on, and what are you hoping is not from exhaust? EXHAUST was NOT mentioned here.

That MUD stuff on the spark plugs I THINK you are talking about is from OIL leaking out of the CAM COVERS via the SPARK PLUG CAM COVER SEAL, its NOT a PROBLEM AT ALL, is that what you are KEEPING an eye on?

[slayer129978]

In my coolant tank theres like muddy stuff stuck all over the inside and i have no idea what it is.

[BodybyFisher]

In my coolant tank theres like muddy stuff stuck all over the inside and i have no idea what it is.

Don't worry about it at all, its probably the tablets that have fallen out of suspension. Next time you change your COOLANT, take the tank out, flush it, and you will be fine, Mike

[slayer129978]

ive never flushed a tank before how do you do it.

[BodybyFisher]

ive never flushed a tank before how do you do it.

I actually think its part of the cooling system service.

It probably easier to remove the hoses off the bottom, along with the purge line and then just flush water through it. But it might be hard for you to find the hose clamps. I have a diagram some place

[slayer129978]

I have the GM ESI would there be a diagram in there?

[BodybyFisher]

I have the GM ESI would there be a diagram in there?

Yes

[Ranger]

I just ordered the 748J wire set for $64 on Amazon.

WOW! That is an excellent price. I think I paid twice that from Rockauto.

If it turns out to be the HG's I can get you the name of a place in Boston that a member from the other site who was stranded there used and was very happy with.

[joeb]

the admin needs to change the thread title so it says miss is not gone. just kidding. at least you had the proper plugs before and after. i have autolite single tip platinum plugs now with my miss. i am going to put in the proper set of ac/delco 41-950's this weekend.

[JohnnyG]

Don't worry about it at all, its probably the tablets that have fallen out of suspension. Next time you change your COOLANT, take the tank out, flush it, and you will be fine, Mike

You are exactly right Mike. Mine had that junk in it too (my '99) and the dealership told me it was the coolant tabs. I never had an issue with overheating. After about a year or so of ownership I did my first coolant change and cleaned that tank. A wire handled bottle brush will help with this. Never had a buildup again for as long as I owned the car.

[BostonETC97]

Did some more poking around tonight. My lower radiator hose is all swollen! It wasn't like that a week ago! Hmmmm! Is that indicative of anything?

[winterset]

Both my GM vehicles use Dexcool. this accumulation in the surgetank/overflow or radiator cap are normal. during my biannual check, I usually just scoop the stuff up & drop it back into the radiator to re-circulate. I never cleaned out my surge tank. just drain,refill, and add 2 packages of stop leak.

I am curious if the mis that you guys are having can be a leaky or faulty fuel injector.

[BostonETC97]

Now that I've chilled out and examined everything carefully, I've got some conclusions. First of all, I have no coolant flow through my purge line. I disconnected it, put it in a bottle, and started up the motor. Nothing. Revved up the engine, and maybe a a small amout shot out. Not a steady stream of any kind.

Second issue - both my upper and lower radiator hoses look pathetic. Dried, cracked, and the lower is quite swollen. Third - the expansion tank is cracked at the bottom, and the 'nipple' for the purge line is cracked at the seam that joins to the body of the tank.

With the engine off or running, I don't smell any exhaust in the coolant tank. The exhaust out the back of the car smells acrid with unburned fuel and some sulfury odor, enough to make your eyes water. But no steam or coolant odor.

I ordered all new hoses, expansion tank, cap, thermostat, and thermostat housing gasket off rockauto. The new wire-set arrives next week too. Before I flip out about headgaskets, I'll get my cooling system back up to spec, and re-evaluate from there. Also I've been adding screwy amounts of dex and water, so I really need to drain and refill back to 50/50 after the new parts are in.

...and that's my dysfunctional update for today! Hope everybody is having a great weekend!