Onstar

[Cadillac Jim]

I got a letter from OnStar offering me an extra free year if I bought a new car. My plans are a nav system, LoJack, and Bluetooth.

[mikeal1892]

I did have people telling me this and I couldnt believe it. What a way to keep customers....

Michael-

[WarrenJ]

I got a letter from OnStar offering me an extra free year if I bought a new car. My plans are a nav system, LoJack, and Bluetooth.

Bluetooth is a lifesaver for me (not that my car is equipped with it . . . of course, it's not).

In view of all the laws in various states prohibiting the use of hand held cell phones while driving,

I looked for a solution that didn't involve drilling holes in my dashboard and such in order to

mount a device or cell phone holder of some sort. The solution was easy, if not elegant.

I have a Motorola H700 Bluetooth Headset (actually an "Earset") that has a feature I really

enjoy: the MIC boom folds up against the body of the headset when not in use and has the added

benefit of turning the headset OFF and disabling the Bluetooth connection to the phone. When

my phone rings, I grab the headset and fold out the MIC boom. It turns ON and (almost) instantly establishes

communications with the cell phone. Voila! Tap the button and say, "Hello."

I can talk my hands free heart out.

There's a thick rubber band wrapped around the pedestal on my interior rear view mirror. I use

that to attach my cell phone (with its antenna extended) when I'm on "over-the-road" trips. When I'm "local"

the cell phone works just fine via Bluetooth when the phone is on my hip.

No holes in the dashboard, no velcro etc. I like.

Regards,

Warren

[Cadillac Jim]

With Bluetooth, a Garmin (or TomTom, or Magellan, or...) and a LoJack, the difference between what I have now is:

GOOD

• My phone will have The Network.
• The directions will be easier to follow, based on my recent experience with the nav system in a Hertz car.
• If the car is stolen, the position updates go right to the police in the area where the car is.

BAD

• The phone won't be integrated into the stereo system.
• I'll have to pull over and stop before the nav system will accept programming.
• The phone levers on the steering wheel will be dead, and I don't know of an easy way to get the fan/temp levers back.
• If the car is stolen, I have to call the police and give them the VIN before LoJack is activated.
• The automatic emergency call when the air bag deploys won't be there anymore.

UGLY

The phone antenna on the rear window will still be there.

[Hud]

I called Onstar yesterday and they told me to take my 02 DTS to the dealer and they would upgrade it for me. I'm going to do it since I have the new system in my 07 and it works much better.

[Cadillac Jim]

Coverage for the analog phones has been going slowly downhill since 2000 or so. My phone service is so unreliable now that I don't give out the number anymore.

I believe that 2002 is the oldest car that they can retrofit.

[OynxSTS]

Anyone have any Idea why GM picked 2002 as the cut off date?

This make almost no sense... the BCM wiring on a 98 Seville is pretty much the same as 2002... If the reason is the BCM and the ECM... Ok the 98 is different.. but the 2000 is pretty much the same...

The seemingly arbitrary 2002 just seems... Crazy.

[bweekes]

FYI,

I received a letter this week stating that I have an option to have my analog only equipment upgraded at a Cadillac dealership to continue using Onstar after Dec 31, 2007 in my 02 STS for $19 and a one year subscription. So, check with Onstar as this may be an option for you.

Could you, and would you mind, posting up a copy of that letter?

Err, I think the shredder ate it. I will look to verify though!

[BUICK11]

I would really like to see something as well. All I have received is letters about the termination date.

We have two vehicles that will be finished with Onstar the end of this year

Thanks

Frank

[Logan]

You can find out quite a bit from the OnStar website. See:

http://www.onstar.com/us_english/jsp/index.jsp

You can enter your VIN and see what your options are. My 2001 cannot be updated..

[WarrenJ]

It's sad, but analog cell phone service is simply a thing of the past. It has outlived its usefulness. It is economic detritus (well, except maybe in some parts of Canada).

Let us get over it. It's as likely to make a comeback as is 8-track stereo.

Please join me in moving forward . . . .

Regards,

Warren

[OynxSTS]

The issue is not that analog cell is a dead duck (and will be dead in Canada too) the issue is that some bone head at GM HQ decided to ignore this inevatability... something that almost everyone in the telecom industry has known, with certainty, since about 1997/8 and inspite of this they continued to install analog gear past 1999, 2000,2001,2002,2003... OMG! 5 Years is like 2 life times in the world of telecomunications.. If you are going to play in this space you need to pay attention!

Unlike your 8 track, which:

a) still works

b ) can still be serviced and repaired

c) could play cassettes with a low cost adapter and

d) can be easily replaced with an aftermarket CD or MP3 player

Your On-star

a) will die and will be completely useless

b ) can't be fixed

c) GM is refusing to offer upgrades for most cars and

d) Unlike your radio is integrated into your car is such a proprietary way it is very unlikely that the aftermarket will help out.

GM's performance here is really awful...

[WarrenJ]

OynxSTS,

I share your frustration.

Were I a Democrat (with a big "D") I'd sponsor legislation that required an upgrade path for each and every conceivable piece of technology I owned. My 8-track stereo would then be able to play MP3 recordings.

Of course, I would then live in a country whose name sounded like "France."

I really like that my seats are heated, but I'd like them to also be cooled. Similar for the steering wheel. Unfortunately, that will have to wait for an upgrade to a newer model year.

I suppose you have a point in suggesting GM had some "heads-up" time on this issue, but there were economics involved. At "only" a $50K price point, Cadillac is not in that atmospheric region owned by RR and some others.

I think we have to be realistic.

Regards,

Warren

EDIT: Where in the world did you get the idea that my 8-track still works?? :lol:

"Unlike your 8 track, which:

a) still works"

[Cadillac Jim]

The problem is that GM refuses to provide the specifications for the phone module in the trunk electronics compartment. This module incorporates all the electronics of the cell phone except the handpiece. Note that the Motorola Razr and other cell phones have all the capabilities of the Cadillac car phones, so the electronics are there at the right price. What is needed are the details of how the car's network bus integrates the phone into the car. Given that, cell phone electronics from Ericsson, Motorola or whoever could be provided to retrofit any Cadillac car phone. With that data, aftermarket vendors could provide the retrofits. Without it, they are in the same boat as the PCM module manufacturers, who can build a PCM easily enough but can't integrate it into the car's network unless they know what the interface specifications are.

In fact, if I were making the decision at GM, I would ask for internal proposals about retrofit modules that have plug-in add-ons for cell technologies so that today's GSM or TDMA2000 transmitter-receiver module could be retrofitted in the future without dealing with the CAN bus, and the same transmitter-receiver modules could be used for all models.

In 1996, digital cell phone technology was already dominant, but the digital phone standard of the time, called I95, wasn't good enough for car phones because it couldn't handle the picket-fencing fadeout you get from mobile radios moving 35 mph or faster, and because at that time coverage areas for digital phones were primarily in urban areas and were insufficient for OnStar.

Although better digital cell phone technology was available before the year 2000, GM resisted a redesign of their car phones until about 2004, when they started selling dual-technology phones that could use either analog or digial cell signals, because the FCC had announced that analog phone service was in its twilight and people weren't buying analog phones anymore, even in cars.

There is an investment required to develop a new product such as a cell phone module for retrofit. GM saw fit to develop only one, allowing them to retrofit only one previous generation of OnStar phones, hence the 2002 cutoff. As I said, if I were making the decision I would make the transmitter/receiver itself a plug-in module.

Analog cell phone coverge has been declining since 1999, and will not wink out on December 31. However, according to the blurb on their web site, OnStar will not take your call if you have an analog phone past December 31, 2007.

[Texas Jim]

EDIT: Where in the world did you get the idea that my 8-track still works??

Mine does. Or at least it did the last time I checked.

[OynxSTS]

I share your frustration.

Were I a Democrat (with a big "D") I'd sponsor legislation that required an upgrade path for each and every conceivable piece of technology I owned. My 8-track stereo would then be able to play MP3 recordings.

You don't need the Dems help... Just about every piece of technology you own is upgradeable and you have to really think hard of a time when a manufacture just plain abandoned a client base... These examples are few and far between... and almost always end with legal involvement.

Think about your gear, your BETA MAX still plays... Your Apple II still boots up.. Your 9" video disk still works as does you phonograph... You can still get ribbons for your old dot matix printer...

Of course, I would then live in a country whose name sounded like "France."

And they just elected a "republican" president

I really like that my seats are heated, but I'd like them to also be cooled. Similar for the steering wheel. Unfortunately, that will have to wait for an upgrade to a newer model year.

After-market kits exist for both... That too is upgradeable

I suppose you have a point in suggesting GM had some "heads-up" time on this issue, but there were economics involved. At "only" a $50K price point, Cadillac is not in that atmospheric region owned by RR and some others.

I'm not sure what that means. Digital chip cell chip sets cost about $15. If GM were to buy them in volume they could probably get the price down to $3.00-$5.00. GM should have been installing these in their cars as early as 1997!

BTW GM is the only provider of cell equipment with this problem. ALL other cell providers offer an upgrade path... most with free phones..

I think we have to be realistic.

EDIT: Where in the world did you get the idea that my 8-track still works?? :lol:

If it doesn't work there are lots of radio shops and car restoration services who will fix it.

You could also say the copper core spark plugs are obsolete too.

But to make the analogy work... it would be like GM is the only manufacture of the new platinum plugs and makes them only with metric threads that fit 2004 and newer cars and trucks... Further the Feds (Republicans I might add) help out and now every time you take the car in to buy gas the gas jockey is required to remove your old school plugs and seize them... OK thats a stretch but you get the idea...

I still don't have a good idea why the cut off at Model Year 2002... The wiring in 2000-2004 Sevilles is pretty much the same and the wiring back to the start of ODBII is very similar... Why not draw the line in the sand with ODBII cars... At least that would make sense.

[Cadillac Jim]

I would suppose that the cutoff is at 2002 because that is the first year of the last generation of analog phones. GM made retrofits only for that generation of OnStar.

[OynxSTS]

Oh my, if thats right, that is just sad.

It took GM management at least 6 years to notice that the Cell network was converting to digital. And even then, they were still installing Analog Only phones... just ones that they knew the had to upgrade sometime in the next 3-5 years.

I haven't seen an analog only cell phone since 1997.

I hope someone got (or gets) fired over this!

[Cadillac Jim]

The cell phone companies aren't going to go and rip out all the analog tranceivers from the cell towers on January 1, 2008. Common sense and economics says that they will take out the analog equipment as it needs maintenance, or as other equipment in the tower needs maintenance and it is economical to take it out or at least cut it off (it uses more power than digital transceivers that cover the same area). It will take months for the coverage to dwindle to the point that you have a really hard time finding analog coverage anymore.

But, as of January 1, 2008, OnStar won't pick up the phone if you're calling from an analog phone. Disbelief? Check out http://www.onstar.com/us_english/jsp/digit...analog_only.jsp?

I got this page after entering my VIN, and found that the link still works if you blank the VIN.

[WarrenJ]

Analog television broadcast services will cease in February of 2,009.

It's possible you heard it here first.

You should prepare for it. GM won't help you.

Regards,

Warren

[JimD]

And retailers will still sell you a brand spanking new NTSC television receiver today.

[Cadillac Jim]

Warren, the rollover of cell phone technology is not the issue here, and nobody is asking GM to help them make their analog phones work, or to build boxes for retrofit... well maybe some people here are wishing that GM would retrofit cars older than 2002 models. To me, the issue is that GM doesn't provide after market suppliers to build replacement phones.

I am in a position to build a phone box for my Cadillac from scratch if I had to, and frankly I plan to look into it this summer. The problem is that the phone has to interface with my Cadillac through the CAN bus, and without information on what messages are to and from the phone, it can't be done. Without GM providing the data interface specification to the phone module, the alternative is to tap onto the network at the phone and make a log of all the CAN messages while you are using the phone, then plow through all that data to try to figure out what goes to and from the phone, and how, and why. Then, if you are successful in deciphering the messages to and from the phone, you can build software in the phone module that will service the network interface to the car.

For what it's worth, I tried to get GM to tell me where I could inquire to get interface specifications on the phone module so that I could build a retrofit myself. The answer? "Ask your dealer."

[WarrenJ]

Warren, the rollover of cell phone technology is not the issue here, and nobody is asking GM to help them make their analog phones work, or to build boxes for retrofit... well maybe some people here are wishing that GM would retrofit cars older than 2002 models. To me, the issue is that GM doesn't provide after market suppliers to build replacement phones.

Jim,

I sympathize with you and while I share your technical expertise, it matters naught.

Cadillac is not Microsoft, I'm sure you see. Cadillac develops a package and puts it on the shelf with a pretty red "For Sale" ribbon wrapped around it. A year later, it does that same thing again. And each year thereafter. What a business concept!

As technology advances, so do the latest model Cadillacs. It's understandable that Cadillac jealously guards its technology (read: firmware). I'd guess you understand that. Equally understandably, there is no Service Pack 2 in the Cadillac world. There is only the next year's model.

<Sigh>

Regards,

Warren

[OynxSTS]

And retailers will still sell you a brand spanking new NTSC television receiver today.

And they will continue to work for years to come!

Just like there are lots of "tuners" that let my 50" HDTV play NTSC signals their are "degrader" tuners that will take an HD signal an play it on a Old School set. Gizmos like this exist today that let my digital video card display on my "old" IBM Trinitron monitor.

Jim hits the nail on the head... OK GM, you don't want to support your older cars...

I'm sure there are people and companies who do.

Either lead, or get out of the way.

[Cadillac Jim]

WarrenJ -- we don't want or need GM's firmware for their cell phone module at all. What we need is an interface definition/specification so that a substitute can be designed. If the interface specification is considered sensitive, then the usual procedure in industry is to come up with a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) as part of the process of obtaining the specification.