Oil Consumption

[chazzy]

I change my oil regularly. My problem is that between oil changes I have to add oil. I recently had a oil change and I 've already had to add 3 qts. I don't have any oil leaks. Could anybody please tell me what is happening with the oil or what is the problem. Everybody keep telling me you know that Northstar engine could be the problem but I don't see any problem with that. The car runs good except for the oil consumption. Wouldn't trade it for nothing. It's a Caddy

[Rickster]

Here we go again. You will get much advice on this. In 99% of these cusumption issues, they are a non-issue. I will hesitate to post. There are many others on this board that will explain the beifits of this. There is tons in the archives on this issue and others can find and post it much quicker than I.

Thought I would mention that my beast consumes about 2 litres every 2 to 3000km. I have no leaks. I have no noticeable exaust emmissions. The NS consumes oil. It does not burn oil. It consumes oil. This is a good thing for a NS. I will leave it at that as others will elaborate far better than I.

Happy Holidays

Really, I mean Merry Christmas

[KHE]

I would not be concerned - you're adding three quarts of oil to the engine between oil changes - that's not a big deal. How many miles per quart of oil are you getting?

The oil consumption of the Northstar varies according to the amount of cross hatch pattern on the cylinder walls. As the honing stones wear at the factory, the pattern will be less agressive and the engine will use less oil BUT, it will wear faster. The good news with your car is adding a quart of oil every now and then replentishes the antiwear compounds and contributes to longer engine life.

The other thing that can make these engines use oil is not driving them hard enough. That allows carbon to build up in the ring land area and prevent the rings from seating and the engine will use more oil. Do a series of wide open throttles (WOT) in manual second gear up to 70 MPH and let the car coast back dpwn to 40 or 50 MPH. Watch your rear view mirror - if you see a lot of soot, etc., repeat the procedure and you will see your oil consumption go down.

The upside to the oil consumption is that the extra oil will greatly reduce the cylinder wearand the engine will go at least 250,000 miles before it needs rings.

[chazzy]

Here we go again. You will get much advice on this. In 99% of these cusumption issues, they are a non-issue. I will hesitate to post. There are many others on this board that will explain the beifits of this. There is tons in the archives on this issue and others can find and post it much quicker than I.

Thought I would mention that my beast consumes about 2 litres every 2 to 3000km. I have no leaks. I have no noticeable exaust emmissions. The NS consumes oil. It does not burn oil. It consumes oil. This is a good thing for a NS. I will leave it at that as others will elaborate far better than I.

Happy Holidays

Really, I mean Merry Christmas

[Ranger]

Here you go. This was written buy our old Guru. Seeing as you joined in Feb. '04 I am surprised that you do not know this.

Northstar Oil Consumption

"It is not unusual for a Northstar to use more oil than some other engines. It is a high performance engine and has to allow a little more oil to the top rings for lube as as well as down the 32 valve guides.

Design intent for oil consumption would put the engine at about 4000 miles per quart consumption but due to the variables in production parameters there are engines that will use 1 quart per 1000-1500 miles.... perfectly normal and acceptable... but more oil consumption than "intended". Nothing will be wrong with the engine but the continuous oil adds are aggravating. If this is the case then understand that the engine is probably going to run a long long time like that as the cylinder walls , rings, valve guides, etc. like all that oil that you are putting in and the continuous oil adds fortify the used oil in the sump and replenish the additive package in the oil that is slowly depleted under normal usage.

Comparing the 4.9 to the Northstar is an apples to oranges deal. The 4.9 is an excellent engine for it's purpose but does not offer nearly the performance, durability, fuel economy and emission control capability of the Northstar. The Northstar is a high output engine and likes to be "used".

The best way to minimize oil consumption in a Northstar is to keep the sump filled slightly low (many are continuously overfilled) by only checking the oil level when hot and only filling the sump with 7 quarts of oil (7.5 with a dry filter at a change.) A typical 8 quart fill at a change is "required" to put the oil level on the full mark when cold but is actually overfilling the crankcase promoting oil consumption.

Use conventional mineral oil (synthetic is not required at all) as it tends to provide better oil consumption.

An last, but not least, air the engine out frequently. It likes to be used and red-line upshifts at WOT help promote clean combustion chambers, exercise the piston rings to keep them free of carbon buildup and keep them mobile and to ensure the engine is broken in and maximum sealing is obtained. The Northstar does not like to be babied around. It likes to be run hard frequently with a WOT blast in merging or whatever.... Even engines reported to use 1 quart per 1500 miles tend to improve to 2500 miles per quart or better when subjected to a regular schedule of use and "abuse"...

----------

The subject of oil consumption really does not have a "final" answer. The fact is that there is some variability in oil consumption in all production engines.... regardless of who makes them on which continent. All the manufacturers recognize this and virtually all of them will call oil consumption as great as 1 quart in 1000 miles "normal" "acceptable" "allowable" "within production tolerances" etc... This doesn't mean that all engines will get 1000 MPQ or that the engine was designed to get 1000 MPQ...it just recognizes the fact that there are going to be some engines that get 1000 MPQ that will be perfectly fine upon disassembly and will have nothing "wrong" with them.

The variables that usually enter into oil consumption are primarily associated with the piston/ring/cylinder bore. The number of valves or type of valve actuation has little to do with it.

The single biggest variable and the one that has been discussed at great length on this forum is the cylinder bore finish or the cylinder honing pattern. The higher performance the engine is the more attention must be paid to the honing pattern and retention of oil on the cylinder walls to lubricate the piston and rings at full load , high RPM operation. The Northstar engine uses a very aggressive cylinder bore finish that tends to retain a lot of oil to protect the piston and rings. When the blocks are honed at the factory there is a tolerance in the bore finish due to the fact that the honing stones will wear and need replacement. A brand new stone gives a slightly more aggressive pattern than a "used" stone....so a block honed with new stones will have a more aggressive finish and most likely will use more oil.

Another variable is bore roundness. Like it or not, the bores tend to "move" slightly as the engine heats up and cools down and bolt tensions relax, etc. over time. All this contributes to slight bore out of roundness that is not bad or good...just different.

Carbon buildup in the rings and ring sealing are also variables that come into play with break in, operating schedule, type of oil used, etc.

The one thing that I can attest to is that many, many customer oil consumption complaint engines have been torn down with absolutely nothing wrong found. The engines are often reassembled and put into test cars and driven by the engineers and more often than not the high oil consumption does not repeat itself !!! The single biggest common cause seems to be breakin...or lack there of. Many, many oil consuming NOrthstar engines are "fixed" by some full throttle operation. I often joke about "driving it like you stole it" but it really is no joke. The Northstar engine was designed as a high performance engine to be run hard and fast. Those that are run hard typically exhibit excellent ring seal, little carbon build up and good oil economy. We have seen engines with tens of thousands of miles on them that the rings have not sealed or mated to the sides of the ring grooves because the operating schedule was so light duty. The moral here is to flog it .... often.

In any case, the nice thing about the engines with the more aggressive honing pattern is that the pistons, rings and bores will last forever. It is very common to tear down a 200,000 mile Northstar engine and still see the original honing pattern in the cylinders. There is never any sign of cylinder wall wear and the idea of a wear "ridge" at the top of the cylinder bore is something that is laughable on a Northstar.

The other nice thing about a little oil consumption is that it adds tremendous safety factor to the oil change interval. Nothing could be better for the engine than an occasional quart of fresh oil. You can take the worst oil on the market and add a fresh quart every 1000 miles and over the life of the engine the wear will be better than an engine run on the best oil with no adds between changes.

While no one in the engineering community wants high oil consumption the fact is that there is some variability in the oil consumption of an engine manufactured at the rate of 1200 per day. The specs of what is "normal" simply reflects this...it does not imply that all engines would get this or that something is wrong with and engine that gets more or less oil consumption.

There have been a lot of engineering changes over the years on the Northstar aimed at reducing the overall oil consumption and reducing the variability in the oil consumption of different engines. Many changes have been made to the honing process to make it more consistent. Changes to the piston and ring groove treatment have been made to make it more resistant to wear, pound out and micro welding at low oil retention rates. Regardless, there is still some variability.

One other thing that affects oil consumption, or the customers perception of oil consumption, is the move toward longer and longer change intervals. With the allowable change interval reaching as high as 12,500 miles on a 2003 Northstar if the oil life monitor is followed this could mean the addition of 3,4 or 5 quarts of oil to a very healthy engine. If the owner changes their oil every 2000 or 3000 miles, despite the oil life monitor recommendations, then they would not have to add any oil between changes. The oil consumption is the same....the amount added between changes is all that is different. Yet, many customers do not make the distinction. Field surveyors repeatedly show that "acceptable" oil consumption means "not having to add between changes"...whatever MPQ that is...???

The issue of oil consumption is very emotional , too, as many people perceive higher oil consumption as 'poor quality" or an indication that something is wrong. Blue smoke, fouling plugs, noise, etc...is a sign of something wrong. Using 1 quart in 1000 miles might be perfectly normal for an engine that has the high limit "rough" hone finish and is perfectly in spec...yet it will be perceived differently.

The Northstar engine in particular was designed to be a high performance engine and to perform well at high speeds and high loads. The engines are tested at loads and speeds for time periods few customers will ever be able to duplicate. It is unfortunate that the engineering that goes into making the engine capable of such running sometimes contributes to more oil consumption... especially as the production machining tolerances are taken into account.

The items mentioned about overfilling also apply. Make sure that the system is not overfilled as any excess oil will be pushed out the PCV. The best bet is to always check the oil hot and keep it midway between the add and full mark. Don't always top off and don't top off cold to the full mark as that will overfill the sump.

Hope this helps rather than adding more fuel to the fire... so to speak.

Incidentally, there is a lot in the message board / forum archives... check using "oil consumption" and read up. Always keep in mind that for every "oil burner" you read about on the internet there are 10,000 or more driving around perfectly fine that the people are not posting about... You are always going to read about the horror cases on the internet."

[chazzy]

Here we go again. You will get much advice on this. In 99% of these cusumption issues, they are a non-issue. I will hesitate to post. There are many others on this board that will explain the beifits of this. There is tons in the archives on this issue and others can find and post it much quicker than I.

Thought I would mention that my beast consumes about 2 litres every 2 to 3000km. I have no leaks. I have no noticeable exaust emmissions. The NS consumes oil. It does not burn oil. It consumes oil. This is a good thing for a NS. I will leave it at that as others will elaborate far better than I.

Happy Holidays

Really, I mean Merry Christmas

Thank you and a Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year

[Rickster]

Here you go. This was written buy our old Guru. Seeing as you joined in Feb. '04 I am surprised that you do not know this.

Northstar Oil Consumption

"It is not unusual for a Northstar to use more oil than some other engines. It is a high performance engine and has to allow a little more oil to the top rings for lube as as well as down the 32 valve guides.

Design intent for oil consumption would put the engine at about 4000 miles per quart consumption but due to the variables in production parameters there are engines that will use 1 quart per 1000-1500 miles.... perfectly normal and acceptable... but more oil consumption than "intended". Nothing will be wrong with the engine but the continuous oil adds are aggravating. If this is the case then understand that the engine is probably going to run a long long time like that as the cylinder walls , rings, valve guides, etc. like all that oil that you are putting in and the continuous oil adds fortify the used oil in the sump and replenish the additive package in the oil that is slowly depleted under normal usage.

Comparing the 4.9 to the Northstar is an apples to oranges deal. The 4.9 is an excellent engine for it's purpose but does not offer nearly the performance, durability, fuel economy and emission control capability of the Northstar. The Northstar is a high output engine and likes to be "used".

The best way to minimize oil consumption in a Northstar is to keep the sump filled slightly low (many are continuously overfilled) by only checking the oil level when hot and only filling the sump with 7 quarts of oil (7.5 with a dry filter at a change.) A typical 8 quart fill at a change is "required" to put the oil level on the full mark when cold but is actually overfilling the crankcase promoting oil consumption.

Use conventional mineral oil (synthetic is not required at all) as it tends to provide better oil consumption.

An last, but not least, air the engine out frequently. It likes to be used and red-line upshifts at WOT help promote clean combustion chambers, exercise the piston rings to keep them free of carbon buildup and keep them mobile and to ensure the engine is broken in and maximum sealing is obtained. The Northstar does not like to be babied around. It likes to be run hard frequently with a WOT blast in merging or whatever.... Even engines reported to use 1 quart per 1500 miles tend to improve to 2500 miles per quart or better when subjected to a regular schedule of use and "abuse"...

----------

The subject of oil consumption really does not have a "final" answer. The fact is that there is some variability in oil consumption in all production engines.... regardless of who makes them on which continent. All the manufacturers recognize this and virtually all of them will call oil consumption as great as 1 quart in 1000 miles "normal" "acceptable" "allowable" "within production tolerances" etc... This doesn't mean that all engines will get 1000 MPQ or that the engine was designed to get 1000 MPQ...it just recognizes the fact that there are going to be some engines that get 1000 MPQ that will be perfectly fine upon disassembly and will have nothing "wrong" with them.

The variables that usually enter into oil consumption are primarily associated with the piston/ring/cylinder bore. The number of valves or type of valve actuation has little to do with it.

The single biggest variable and the one that has been discussed at great length on this forum is the cylinder bore finish or the cylinder honing pattern. The higher performance the engine is the more attention must be paid to the honing pattern and retention of oil on the cylinder walls to lubricate the piston and rings at full load , high RPM operation. The Northstar engine uses a very aggressive cylinder bore finish that tends to retain a lot of oil to protect the piston and rings. When the blocks are honed at the factory there is a tolerance in the bore finish due to the fact that the honing stones will wear and need replacement. A brand new stone gives a slightly more aggressive pattern than a "used" stone....so a block honed with new stones will have a more aggressive finish and most likely will use more oil.

Another variable is bore roundness. Like it or not, the bores tend to "move" slightly as the engine heats up and cools down and bolt tensions relax, etc. over time. All this contributes to slight bore out of roundness that is not bad or good...just different.

Carbon buildup in the rings and ring sealing are also variables that come into play with break in, operating schedule, type of oil used, etc.

The one thing that I can attest to is that many, many customer oil consumption complaint engines have been torn down with absolutely nothing wrong found. The engines are often reassembled and put into test cars and driven by the engineers and more often than not the high oil consumption does not repeat itself !!! The single biggest common cause seems to be breakin...or lack there of. Many, many oil consuming NOrthstar engines are "fixed" by some full throttle operation. I often joke about "driving it like you stole it" but it really is no joke. The Northstar engine was designed as a high performance engine to be run hard and fast. Those that are run hard typically exhibit excellent ring seal, little carbon build up and good oil economy. We have seen engines with tens of thousands of miles on them that the rings have not sealed or mated to the sides of the ring grooves because the operating schedule was so light duty. The moral here is to flog it .... often.

In any case, the nice thing about the engines with the more aggressive honing pattern is that the pistons, rings and bores will last forever. It is very common to tear down a 200,000 mile Northstar engine and still see the original honing pattern in the cylinders. There is never any sign of cylinder wall wear and the idea of a wear "ridge" at the top of the cylinder bore is something that is laughable on a Northstar.

The other nice thing about a little oil consumption is that it adds tremendous safety factor to the oil change interval. Nothing could be better for the engine than an occasional quart of fresh oil. You can take the worst oil on the market and add a fresh quart every 1000 miles and over the life of the engine the wear will be better than an engine run on the best oil with no adds between changes.

While no one in the engineering community wants high oil consumption the fact is that there is some variability in the oil consumption of an engine manufactured at the rate of 1200 per day. The specs of what is "normal" simply reflects this...it does not imply that all engines would get this or that something is wrong with and engine that gets more or less oil consumption.

There have been a lot of engineering changes over the years on the Northstar aimed at reducing the overall oil consumption and reducing the variability in the oil consumption of different engines. Many changes have been made to the honing process to make it more consistent. Changes to the piston and ring groove treatment have been made to make it more resistant to wear, pound out and micro welding at low oil retention rates. Regardless, there is still some variability.

One other thing that affects oil consumption, or the customers perception of oil consumption, is the move toward longer and longer change intervals. With the allowable change interval reaching as high as 12,500 miles on a 2003 Northstar if the oil life monitor is followed this could mean the addition of 3,4 or 5 quarts of oil to a very healthy engine. If the owner changes their oil every 2000 or 3000 miles, despite the oil life monitor recommendations, then they would not have to add any oil between changes. The oil consumption is the same....the amount added between changes is all that is different. Yet, many customers do not make the distinction. Field surveyors repeatedly show that "acceptable" oil consumption means "not having to add between changes"...whatever MPQ that is...???

The issue of oil consumption is very emotional , too, as many people perceive higher oil consumption as 'poor quality" or an indication that something is wrong. Blue smoke, fouling plugs, noise, etc...is a sign of something wrong. Using 1 quart in 1000 miles might be perfectly normal for an engine that has the high limit "rough" hone finish and is perfectly in spec...yet it will be perceived differently.

The Northstar engine in particular was designed to be a high performance engine and to perform well at high speeds and high loads. The engines are tested at loads and speeds for time periods few customers will ever be able to duplicate. It is unfortunate that the engineering that goes into making the engine capable of such running sometimes contributes to more oil consumption... especially as the production machining tolerances are taken into account.

The items mentioned about overfilling also apply. Make sure that the system is not overfilled as any excess oil will be pushed out the PCV. The best bet is to always check the oil hot and keep it midway between the add and full mark. Don't always top off and don't top off cold to the full mark as that will overfill the sump.

Hope this helps rather than adding more fuel to the fire... so to speak.

Incidentally, there is a lot in the message board / forum archives... check using "oil consumption" and read up. Always keep in mind that for every "oil burner" you read about on the internet there are 10,000 or more driving around perfectly fine that the people are not posting about... You are always going to read about the horror cases on the internet."

That's the post I was thiking of.

[Cadillac Jim]

Another thing that can be important is the quality of the oil. Many outfits that do a lot of oil changes, including dealers, use bulk oil that they buy in 55-gallon drums. This is just fine, so long as it is the same top-grade 10W-30 you would get in a filling station, but in point of fact sometimes the 55-gallon drum contains an economy grade of oil. Also, some outfits cut corners, i.e. skip oil changes and just top it off; look at this thread for an example ferreted out by Channel 4 in Los Angeles:

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...p;hl=Jiffy+lube

Please understand that this is something that can happen to any organization, and does not impugn Jiffy Lube as a national chain (also, L.A. is a really cut-throat environment automotive in terms of the automotive industry). A perfectly good GM dealer can have a tech that skips an oil change on a customer's car and takes the oil home for his car, or even just forgets because there were several things done on your car, for example.

I would suggest that you follow the WOT procedure recommended in the well-written, well-conceived long post quoted above. Don't take it all the way to redline, just to 5,000 rpm or so, and let the engine slow the car down. Braking with the engine at high RPM shows a lot of vacuum to the rings while applying lateral forces to the pistons, which works the rings while sucking oil through them. If your rings aren't too bad, this will clear them right up.

I do NOT recommend the dealer procedure where they add a special solvent through the plug holes of a hot engine, then suck it out after about an hour. This process de-carbonizes the combustion chambers as well as cleans gum out of the rings. There are reasons why I say this:

1. Some techs don't read the TSB before they do the procedure. The TCB plainly says that the solvent must be removed before 3 hours have passed because after that time the gum will settle back down in the rings and make the car worse than before. I had this procedure done on my car and they let it sit over four hours because they wanted to do a really good job.
2. This procedure, and a similar one that uses a different solvent and simply de-carbonizes the combustion chambers but does NOT clean the rings, cost about $400 and may or may not help, even if done properly.
3. An oil change to 5W-30 Mobil 1 synthetic followed by a WOT procedure every weekend for three months is a lot more fun and has a lot better chance of making an improvement. This worked for me, without the WOT every weekend, although I do have a lead foot and a redline 1-2 shift is in my day now and again. Keep a couple of quarts of Mobil 1 in the garage and check the oil every Saturday morning. My oil consumption went from a quart every 800 miles to a quart every 1500 miles with the first change with Mobil 1 5W-30 at a filling station. Go back to your regular oil at the next oil change if you like.

However, if the WOT process doesn't work, the dealer procedure is well worth a try. It was designed and tested by GM for Northstars and is known to solve the oil-burning problem in the field. Be sure and get a copy of the TSB, highlight the paragraph that says not to leave the solvent in the engine longer than 3 hours, and give it to the Service Manager and watch him read it before you sign the work order. I believe that this TSB is available on Caddyinfo on the How To page.

I wish everyone a Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukah and Happy New Year.

[Regis]

Don't take it all the way to redline, just to 5,000 rpm or so, and let the engine slow the car down.

Actually you do want to take it to redline. Otherwise, I believe, the attempted WOT(s) is/ are pointless or relatively ineffective. I always redline during WOTs. The first few times I redlined were nerve-racking but the more I did it the more comfortable I became and realized that my Northstar liked it. You could say it's a masochistic engine. lol

" An last, but not least, air the engine out frequently. It likes to be used and red-line upshifts at WOT help promote clean combustion chambers, exercise the piston rings to keep them free of carbon buildup and keep them mobile and to ensure the engine is broken in and maximum sealing is obtained. The Northstar does not like to be babied around. It likes to be run hard frequently with a WOT blast in merging or whatever.... Even engines reported to use 1 quart per 1500 miles tend to improve to 2500 miles per quart or better when subjected to a regular schedule of use and "abuse"... "

[KHE]

I do NOT recommend the dealer procedure where they add a special solvent through the plug holes of a hot engine, then suck it out after about an hour. This process de-carbonizes the combustion chambers as well as cleans gum out of the rings. There are reasons why I say this:

[*]Some techs don't read the TSB before they do the procedure. The TCB plainly says that the solvent must be removed before 3 hours have passed because after that time the gum will settle back down in the rings and make the car worse than before. I had this procedure done on my car and they let it sit over four hours because they wanted to do a really good job.

[*]This procedure, and a similar one that uses a different solvent and simply de-carbonizes the combustion chambers but does NOT clean the rings, cost about $400 and may or may not help, even if done properly.

Many techs have ruined engines with the deep carbon procedure - they didn't get all the solvent out of the cylinders and did not crank the enging over without the spark plugs to clear the remaining solvent and bam - hydrolock.

The bulletin states a time limit so the dealer's service bay is not tied up for hours. The longer the solvent is left in contact with the rings, the more goo it will clean/dissolve. It takes several bottles of top engine cleaner to do the job to keep the rings soaking in solvent due to the fact the cylinders are at a 45 degree angle.

After the cleaning procedure is performed, it is important to change the oil, drive the car for 20 minutes and then change the oil and filter.

[BodybyFisher]

Here was the result of the solvent method, I swore at that point I would never do that method, I think IAN posted this, there is a thread someplace: