Harmonic Balancer

[BigCat83]

A question for consideration:

I am thinking that my current head gasket problem may have more to do with the long term use of Dex Cool than anything else. I never ever saw such deterioration in an engine using the green stuff (aluminum Alfa and Jaguar motors) even after years of cooling system neglect. I am seriously reconsidering future use of Dex Cool in my Eldo...

Please opine.

You all wouldn't believe the chintzy $131.60 tool I received today!!!!!!!!

I feel like I got bent over and done dry...

But if it works?

[mmarinov]

A question for consideration:

I am thinking that my current head gasket problem may have more to do with the long term use of Dex Cool than anything else. I never ever saw such deterioration in an engine using the green stuff (aluminum Alfa and Jaguar motors) even after years of cooling system neglect. I am seriously reconsidering future use of Dex Cool in my Eldo...

Please opine.

You all wouldn't believe the chintzy $131.60 tool I received today!!!!!!!!

I feel like I got bent over and done dry...

But if it works?

BigCat:

I wish you the best of luck on your TimeSert repair...I've been following this thread with interest. I know someone will ask...what do you mean by 'deterioration', specifically?

Mark

[BigCat83]

I haven't pulled the heads off yet (Thursday if all goes according to plan), but I have pulled the head bolts and the debris and deterioration I found on those from the rear head is alarming. When my Digi Cam is returned from Canon I'll take some pics of those head bolts from the rear head. I think everyone will find their condition quite interesting...

I've never seen the same s**t on Alfa and Jaguar head studs after gasket failures. And they ran the green cool juice. I'm casting a suspicious eye on Dex Cool...

[KHE]

A question for consideration:

I am thinking that my current head gasket problem may have more to do with the long term use of Dex Cool than anything else. I never ever saw such deterioration in an engine using the green stuff (aluminum Alfa and Jaguar motors) even after years of cooling system neglect. I am seriously reconsidering future use of Dex Cool in my Eldo...

Please opine.

You all wouldn't believe the chintzy $131.60 tool I received today!!!!!!!!

I feel like I got bent over and done dry...

But if it works?

Use DexCool - it is a far superior coolant than the old green coolant. I have seen neglected cooling systems were the green coolant was grey and the steel components such as the hose nipples were rotted away...

BTW, you did get bent over and done dry - the device that Kent-Moore used probably had a treble hook on the end to boot... At least, you'll be able to get the balancer removed now.

[BigCat83]

"At least, you'll be able to get the balancer removed now."

We shall see...

[mmarinov]

"At least, you'll be able to get the balancer removed now."

We shall see...

Good luck, BigCat - keep us posted, HOF'er (Hall-Of-Famer!)

MM

[BigCat83]

It's off! It's off! I can't believe it's off!!!!!!!!!!

OK this is is what did it!

Locked the flywheel with my $131.60 tool, used a 3/4" impact socket, 1/2" drive breaker bar and 4 feet of Home Depot water pipe cheater bar. Lifted the engine cradle off two jack stands (I'm 54 and phsically fit) and twisted that breaker bar like a pretzel.

So...I walked over to my Craftsman compressor cranked the regulator up to 120PSI (from 95), hooked up my new IR impact gun, put it on the screw and it spun that sucker right off!

I was stunned! I couldn't believe it!

1/2 drive IR impact gun w/1000 pound feet reverse torque at 120 PSI did the job!

I'm gonna drink wine and fire up the spa toight to celebrate.

Thank you all for the support and encouragement. I will keep you posted on the rest of the job.

[mmarinov]

It's off! It's off! I can't believe it's off!!!!!!!!!!

OK this is is what did it!

Locked the flywheel with my $131.60 tool, used a 3/4" impact socket, 1/2" drive breaker bar and 4 feet of Home Depot water pipe cheater bar. Lifted the engine cradle off two jack stands (I'm 54 and phsically fit) and twisted that breaker bar like a pretzel.

So...I walked over to my Craftsman compressor cranked the regulator up to 120PSI (from 95), hooked up my new IR impact gun, put it on the screw and it spun that sucker right off!

I was stunned! I couldn't believe it!

1/2 drive IR impact gun w/1000 pound feet reverse torque at 120 PSI did the job!

I'm gonna drink wine and fire up the spa toight to celebrate.

Thank you all for the support and encouragement. I will keep you posted on the rest of the job.

Congratulations! I also have needed to use my pipe cheater bar on things but have never had a tool bend as a result.

I bet you were pretty panicked after that! Glad to see your compressor/impact did the trick. Enjoy your vino.

[Cadillac Jim]

When I was young, I spread a ProTo 1/2" wrench on a wheel puller, removing the vibration damper from a six-cylinder engine in my 1959 Chevrolet, with no cheater except a shop rag to keep the box end of the wrench from going clear thorugh my hand. The tool dealer was bewildered but there were no cheater marks on the wrench, and a careful measurement showed that it was spread. I told him how I did it, and, still bewildered, he gave me a new one free.

[BodybyFisher]

It's off! It's off! I can't believe it's off!!!!!!!!!!

OK this is is what did it!

Locked the flywheel with my $131.60 tool, used a 3/4" impact socket, 1/2" drive breaker bar and 4 feet of Home Depot water pipe cheater bar. Lifted the engine cradle off two jack stands (I'm 54 and phsically fit) and twisted that breaker bar like a pretzel.

So...I walked over to my Craftsman compressor cranked the regulator up to 120PSI (from 95), hooked up my new IR impact gun, put it on the screw and it spun that sucker right off!

I was stunned! I couldn't believe it!

1/2 drive IR impact gun w/1000 pound feet reverse torque at 120 PSI did the job!

I'm gonna drink wine and fire up the spa toight to celebrate.

Thank you all for the support and encouragement. I will keep you posted on the rest of the job.

Hey congratulations! Glad you cracked it loose...

Just be careful getting into that spa, I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself, you still have a lot of work to do! Enjoy that wine, I'm having a glass of Merlot myself and just toasted you!

[mmarinov]

Hey congratulations! Glad you cracked it loose...

Just be careful getting into that spa, I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself, you still have a lot of work to do! Enjoy that wine, I'm having a glass of Merlot myself and just toasted you!

Or hurting her, for that matter!!

[KHE]

Glad you got the balancer off - It was unusual that it was on there so tight.

[BigCat83]

Glad you got the balancer off - It was unusual that it was on there so tight.

That was my impression. The motor is 10 years old with 91-1/2K on it and it has been my experience that motors that age are always tough to take apart.

Try pulling the heads off a Jaguar V-12 or and Alfa V-6 after ten years worth of aluminum oxide has cemented them to the head studs...

[BigCat83]

This is it!

Pulled the heads this PM. Both gaskets were perfect!

I'm not surprised (but I am because my car crapped out) because I have been anal about maintaining this car.

My problem is caused solely by the bolts of the rear head pulling out of the block, apparently, after my 90+MPH run over the Howard Frankland Bridge. I have retained the gaskets and bolts to take pics of when my Digi Cam is returned from Canon.

This is certainly grist for the thread mill.

I'm surprised at the cause of my problem, please opine.

[KHE]

When you clean the deck surfaces only use a plastic or wood scraper. The spray gasket remover from Permatex is also useful for removing the residue. Do not under ANY circumstances use Scotchbrite or let Scotchbrite ANYWHERE near the engine. The aluminum oxide in Scotchbrite is instant death to bearings.

When you order the new head gasket kits from GM, they will contain new head bolts. The small M6 bolts that are in the chaincase area are to be reused.

The next step is Timeserting! Be sure to follow the directions in the Timesert kit and you will not have any trouble. There is a video on the Timesert site that shows a guy installing a Timesert. Buy a couple of cans of brake cleaner spray for cleaning out the head bolt holes and if you don't have an air nozzle with a long tube to reach the bottom of the head bolt holes, either buy one or add a length of tubing to an existing nozzle. Be sure to not allow any chips to fall in the engine - cover it up. I used 2" wide masking tape and taped off the entire head deck surface in the block except for around each head bolt hole.

Make sure you have a good quality 1/2" drill - I used my Milwaukee Magnum Hole Shooter drill and it really worked it hard.

[BigCat83]

Thanks,

I have all of the above and will complete this procedure slowly and carefully. I only use gasket remover and plastic scrapers when I replace headgaskets. Actually, the block of my motor looks very clean - I don't expect to do a lot of cleaning and scraping.

I've seen this problem with other transverse mounted engine FWD cars. The rear cylinder bank receives less cooling air passing over it and generally runs a bit hotter, the aluminum in the block deteriorates a bit and the head studs/bolts pull out with age and mileage.

Another reason why I don't like FWD cars (except my Eldorado ).

[zonie77]

Consider using a vacuum with a tube taped into the end of the crevice tool. That way there are a lot less chips blowing around.

Glad to hear it's going well!

[KHE]

Consider using a vacuum with a tube taped into the end of the crevice tool. That way there are a lot less chips blowing around.

Glad to hear it's going well!

That's a good idea! I used a shop vac next to the air gun when I did mine and most of the chips were sucked up in the shop vac. I still needed to use straight air to blow out the solvent and cutting oil though.

I've seen this problem with other transverse mounted engine FWD cars. The rear cylinder bank receives less cooling air passing over it and generally runs a bit hotter, the aluminum in the block deteriorates a bit and the head studs/bolts pull out with age and mileage.

Another reason why I don't like FWD cars (except my Eldorado ).

I think that is a coincidence more than anything. The Northstar waterpump pumps coolant at the rate of 105 gallons per minute - plenty enough to keep things cool.

[zonie77]

That's a good idea! I used a shop vac next to the air gun when I did mine and most of the chips were sucked up in the shop vac. I still needed to use straight air to blow out the solvent and cutting oil though.

I agree 100%. The vacuum keeps the chips to a minimum.

[BigCat83]

Good morning,

The time rapidly approaches (today) when I will re-assemble the harmonic balancer. A question for you fellows who've done this: Who's Harmonic Balancer Install Tool did you use to pull it on?

Today's work - torque the head bolts, install and time the cam chains w/tensioners, timing cover, harmonic balancer and bolt, exhaust and as much else as I can. Gotta get this s***box back on the road...

The FSM says to torque the six small bolts in the front of the heads to 106 pound feet; seems excessive but it is what it is... Any trouble encountered by anyone when doing this?

Any special tools needed for re-assembly.

Thanks,

Roger

[KHE]

Good morning,

The time rapidly approaches (today) when I will re-assemble the harmonic balancer. A question for you fellows who've done this: Who's Harmonic Balancer Install Tool did you use to pull it on?

Today's work - torque the head bolts, install and time the cam chains w/tensioners, timing cover, harmonic balancer and bolt, exhaust and as much else as I can. Gotta get this s***box back on the road...

The FSM says to torque the six small bolts in the front of the heads to 106 pound feet; seems excessive but it is what it is... Any trouble encountered by anyone when doing this?

Any special tools needed for re-assembly.

Thanks,

Roger

Roger,

I borrowed the tool to install the balancer from Advance Auto Parts - I know you need such a tool to install the balancer on the 4.9 engine but the factory shop manual did not mention any such tool for the Northstar.

Do you mean the small bolts in the chaincase area of the heads - 3 each side that you re-use? I think they are M6 bolts and I think 106 ft-lbs would snap them off... are you sure the spec isn't 106 inch-lbs.??? I don't have access to my shop manual at the moment or I'd verify it for you.

[BodybyFisher]

Whoa..... I think that is that is 106 inch pounds according to my manual! Been there done that on a Pontiac, where I torqued to 106 ft lbs instead of 106 ft lbs and snapped an intake bolt. Check that torque again, I have this info, make sure you get the current torque specs, they occasionally update it, I am sure KHE will chime in. This is what I have:

Cruise Control Bracket to Throttle Body Bracket

Nm 12

--

106 in lbs

Cylinder Head Bolt (M11)

First Pass

Nm 30

Ft lbs 22

--

Second Pass

+ 60 degrees

--

Third Pass

+ 60 degrees

--

Final Pass

+ 60 degrees (total 180 degrees)

--

Cylinder Head Bolt (M6)

Nm 12

--

106 in lbs

Cylinder Head Plug

Nm 80

59 ft lbs

--

Cylinder Head Plug (Oil Gallery)

Nm 12

--

106 in lbs

Cylinder Head Plug (Soc Hex)

Nm 5.5

--

49 in lbs

************************************************************************

I have this also, notice that as of 1999, note that the second pass was 70 degrees or a total of 190 degrees where at some point 60 degree and a total of 180 degrees was quoted. Make sure you use the current spec for head bolt torque!

SMU - Cylinder Head Tightening Specification Clarification #99-06-01-016 - (Oct 4, 1999)

Cylinder Head Tightening Specification Clarification

1993 Cadillac Allante, Sixty Special (FWD)

1993-96 Cadillac Fleetwood

1993-99 Cadillac DeVille, Eldorado, Seville

1994-99 Cadillac Concours

1995-99 Oldsmobile Aurora

1999 Marine

with 4.0 L or 4.6 L Engine (VINs C, Y, 9 -- RPOs L47, LD8, L37)

This bulletin is being issued to clarify the cylinder head tightening specification listed in the following procedures in the Engine Mechanical 4.0 L and 4.6 L sections of the appropriate Service Manuals:

Specifications -- Fastener Tightening Specifications

Cylinder Head Replacement -- Installation Procedure

Cylinder Head Installation

The torque specification and sequence for the cylinder head bolts (1--10) using J 36660-A is:

First Pass -- 40 N·m (30 lb ft)

Second Pass -- 70 Degrees

Third Pass -- 60 Degrees

Fourth Pass -- 60 Degrees (190 Degrees total)

The torque specification for the three front M6 cylinder head bolts is:

12 N·m (106 lb in)

[Cadillac Jim]

The only numbers 106 that I see in my 1997 FSM, pages 6-9 through 6-11, are in the Lb-In column. The highest torque that I see in the Lb-Ft column is 44, for the Intermediate Sprocket Retaining Bolt and the EGR tube to Intermediate Pipe Nut and Exhaust Manifold Pipe. There are several torque-and-twist specs, and lots of 37 Lb-Ft specs but nothing higher than those three 44 Lb-Ft specs.

The Ignition Module to Cam Cover bolts are 12 N-m (106 In-Lb). The Intermediate Sprocket Retaining Bolt is 44 Lb-Ft. The Intermeidate Sprocket Shaft Bolts are 10 N-m (89 In-Lb).

Since you have a FSM, I won't scan in the torque table. If yours is torn or greasy, let me know and I'll put them up.

[ajdrake]

If you get a chance, I'd like to see some pictures of using the engine hoist to raise the car body off the cradle. I'm convinced that it the way to go. I pulled the engine from the top when I repaired my car and it was tough - there were many bolts that fastened braces that were in awkward angles. I'm assuming you lifted the body by the radiator support structure correct?

I pulled the powertrain out of my 1996 Concours using a different method. After disconnecting everything, I took off the rear wheels and blocked the car using a 4x4 about two feet long under the rear-wheel lower control arm.

With a floor jack placed under the middle of the front support of the powertrain cradle (so that this single jack lifts the entire front end of the car), I lowered the front end onto a standard furniture dolly rated for 1000 lbs. Because the dolly and the rear wheel blocks are at about the same height of 4 inches, the cradle lies almost perfectly flat on the dolly. The dolly supports also line up perfectly with the side supports of the cradle. Be careful, you don't want to put the full weight of the car on the dolly. Contact with the dolly was made at the rear of the dolly first with less than half-an-inch of space at the front.

Next, I placed a 3 1/2 ton floor jack under each side of the frame at the frame contact lift points under the doors and behind the front tires. These jacks are to hold the weight of the frame when the cradle is unbolted. I then proceded to unbolt the cradle. At this point, the cradle is held up in the rear by the furniture dolly and in the front by the center placed floor jack.

Once the cradle is unbolted, lower the front jack so that the cradle rests entirely on the dolly; the front should only have to drop about half an inch.

After unbolting the cradle, I slowly raise the frame using the two 3 1/2 ton floor jacks. This requires someone to help me as we jack up the frame at the same time. At one point, it was necessary to put the frame on jack stands and to insert a 2' x 4" x 4" block of wood between the frame and each of the jacks. With the wood in place, I was able to lift the front of the frame enough to pull the dolly foward and slide it out the side. I did the work in my 2 bay garage which is very space limited and I still managed to roll out the powertrain without having to take it outside.

I bought the furniture dolly at Harbor Freight for $30 (they rent for about $10/day at Uhaul) and I borrowed 2 of the 3 jacks from friends. This was a really easy way to get the engine out.

[clarkz71]

Welcome to the forum. Good post.