Harmonic Balancer

[BigCat83]

Changing headgaskets...

Dropped the cradle today - actually I lowered the cradle onto 4 jack stands then proceeded to lift the front of my car off the the cradle with my engine hoist (actually quite easy - it takes cajones but...). Now for my problem; in trying to remove the harmonic balancer screw with my 1/2 inch drive Ingersoll Rand impact wrench - it won't come. My gun is rated at 250 or 275 pound feet (I forget) and is the 105 pound feet plus 120 degrees (torque spec for that screw) greater than the capacity of my impact wrench?

My question to you fellows who've successfully removed this screw - what tool did you use to do so?

Thanks

[MAC]

Your impact wrench may not work since it doesn't have enough torque to break the bond. I just replaced my water pump and used a Huskey impact wrench with 735 ft. lbs. reverse torque and 600 forward. It's rated at 4.0 cfm @ 90. It did the job but it still wasn't easy. I would suggest that you buy a wrench rated at no less than 500 ft. lbs.

[What job]

Loctite ?

[Cadillac Jim]

Socket and breaker bar? Rent-a-hog-tool?

[MAC]

Socket and breaker bar? Rent-a-hog-tool?

Actually, I'll second the breaker bar and also I would by an extension. You can purchase pipe at Home Depot by the foot. Should cost around $5-6 for a 3-foot length. That might work along with some PB Blaster.

[BodybyFisher]

I would use a 24 inch breaker bar and put a pipe on it if I had to, you will be amazed how much torque you can generate that way. Be careful you don't break any tools, I have broken a few that way. I assume you have locked the flywheel?

Make sure you are turning the bolt in the correct direction and that it is not a reverse thread. I don't know that it is......I am just throwing that thought out there.

[KHE]

The balancer bolt is tight - it has to be for the oil pump to function. That said, you will need to lock the flywheel - when I did mine, I made a tool to engage with several teeth of the flexplate. I copied the design of the Kent-Moore J tool. You want to engage several teeth to spread the load.

After the flywheel was locked, I used my impact wrench to remove the bolt. If your impact won't budge the bolt, then the breaker bar with pipe should do the job.

If you get a chance, I'd like to see some pictures of using the engine hoist to raise the car body off the cradle. I'm convinced that it the way to go. I pulled the engine from the top when I repaired my car and it was tough - there were many bolts that fastened braces that were in awkward angles. I'm assuming you lifted the body by the radiator support structure correct?

[BodybyFisher]

Logan, needs to drop his carriage to change a TCC solenoid. He is considering using long bolts/all threads with washers and nuts in the carriage bolt locations to drop the carriage in a controlled fashion by looseing the nuts, what do you guys think about that to get to the side pan on the transmission? It sounds great to me..

[KHE]

I think Logan is going to use a hoist so there will be ample clearance for the long threaded rods. I'm not sure how far you need to lower the trans for the side cover R&R.

I'd probably weld a nut to the bottom end of the threaded rods so a wrench could be used to keep the threaded rod from working its way out of the frame nuts.

[BodybyFisher]

Good Idea Kevin. I think the carriage needs to be dropped 8 to 10 inches. This may be a good method for me to lower the carriage safe and easily..

I got the impression that Logan was leaving the car on the ground..

[BigCat83]

Good evening everyone.

Made a lot of progress this weekend...

Picked up a 4 foot length of pipe and a 12 inch nipple at Home Depot today. I haven't broken the balancer screw yet, but that's to come - soon.

Anyway while working on my car I remembered a trick I used when working on 4 cylinder Alfa Romeos. Their crank screw was always a b***h to get off as well. And the trick I used to defeat it was to put the impact socket on a 1/2 inch drive breaker bar, then onto the screw. I would turn the engine over by hand and rest the handle end of the breaker bar in a bunch of shop towels covering the inner fender (to prevent damage) on the driver's side. Then I would crank the engine over with the starter. This process ALWAYS broke that GD screw loose. And without damage!

To get me to where I am today; I photocopied the items to be disconnected and used the copy as a check list as I progressed through the job. When I "dropped" the cradle yesterday I simply lowered the front of the car onto 4 jackstands, removed the six bolts holding the cradle to the body. Now was my moment! I covered the driver's side front fender with a fender cover and moved my engine hoist into position. Using a load leveler I attached the hoist to the radiator cross over and lifted away! Up it came! I was amazed.

I wanted to taking photos of my job as I progressed but my lousy Canon Powershot A70 digital camera crapped out (it's now at Canon having the ccd replaced) at the beginning. My Timesert tool kit should arrive this week, I've purchased about $800.00 worth of new parts (and a little more to go) and should finish up in the next few weeks.

My observations on this job: I must be f***ing nuts to do this! Pulling the 12 cylinder engine and trans out of my XJS was no where near the amount of work this Eldorado is!!!!!!

If I have further problems after this my '97 Eldorado will either get a new engine or go to the scrap yard!

I will have done one Timesert/head gasket job. I will not do another.

[BodybyFisher]

My observations on this job: I must be f***ing nuts to do this! Pulling the 12 cylinder engine and trans out of my XJS was no where near the amount of work this Eldorado is!!!!!!

You may be fn nuts, but you are doing it! Don't get frustrated at the beginning of your post said, you made a lot of progress keep that in mind. I am impressed, keep up the good work!

[BigCat83]

Thank you BodyByFisher.

I never liked FWD cars and now I know why...

I'm looking to buy a flywheel holder - J39411 any ideas?

I'm going to call Kent Moore tomorrow unless...

[BodybyFisher]

Kevin replicated a kent moore part, I have heard that you can use vice grips on the flywheel is there enough room to get them in? I am not sure that the vice grips will be able to hold it but its a thought..

Here is one:

http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAct...amp;ProdID=1534

[KHE]

the trick I used to defeat it was to put the impact socket on a 1/2 inch drive breaker bar, then onto the screw. I would turn the engine over by hand and rest the handle end of the breaker bar in a bunch of shop towels covering the inner fender (to prevent damage) on the driver's side. Then I would crank the engine over with the starter. This process ALWAYS broke that GD screw loose. And without damage!

WAIT! STOP! Do not use this method on the Northstar - you risk damaging the nose of the starter, the starter pinion gear, the flexplate or the engine case itself.

In the "Special Tools" section of the shop manual, there is an illustration of the flywheel locking tool. It mounts using the two bolts that fasten the engine to trans support plate by the exhaust pipe. It has four or five teeth that engage the flywheel. I made one out of some 1/8" scrap steel - nothing fancy but the price was right. You can get it from Kent-Moore but it will be big $ as all Kent-Moore tools are horribly overpriced.... Another example is the power steering pulley puller (needed to remove the waterpump pulley from the camshaft was $130.00 from Kent-Moore and $22 from the local parts store...

[clarkz71]

Kent-Moore tools are horribly overpriced.... Another example is the power steering pulley puller (needed to remove the waterpump pulley from the camshaft was $130.00 from Kent-Moore and $22 from the local parts store...

I agree, way overpriced. I was lucky to find that $130 p/s pully puller on e-bay new for $20.

[BigCat83]

WAIT! STOP! Do not use this method on the Northstar - you risk damaging the nose of the starter, the starter pinion gear, the flexplate or the engine case itself.

No...I haven't tried his trick - it's a thought, though...

Ordered the Kent Moore tool today - $131.60. That hurts but I learned a long time ago that the factory tools can't be beat for jobs like this - I have a tool chest full of Alfa Romeo and Jaguar factory tools. And they all earned what I paid for them many times over.

Thanks again.

[billytheshoe]

WAIT! STOP! Do not use this method on the Northstar - you risk damaging the nose of the starter, the starter pinion gear, the flexplate or the engine case itself.

No...I haven't tried his trick - it's a thought, though...

Ordered the Kent Moore tool today - $131.60. That hurts but I learned a long time ago that the factory tools can't be beat for jobs like this - I have a tool chest full of Alfa Romeo and Jaguar factory tools. And they all earned what I paid for them many times over.

Thanks again.

OK, I don't know the northstar crank bolt. I will take a calculated guess that it is in the neighborhood of 19mm(3/4in.) & 21mm(15/16in) I would take a wild guess and say a threadlocker of some sort was used on it at factory assembly. A 3/4 drive impact has always removed a 200+ft. pound bolt without fail. Here's another trick. With the proper size socket, on a breaker bar, turn the engine so the slack is gone, the bar end on the ground, crank the starter. Let the starter do the work. The socket has to be square on the bolt head or you may risk rounding the bolt head. Keep you're hands out of there, the starter has the power to do this with a full batt. charge. I'v done it on a glued in fastener. I would only recommend using a pneumatic 3/4 drive impact to make short work of it. A 1/2 in drive impact may work if its strong enough, most are'nt.

[KHE]

WAIT! STOP! Do not use this method on the Northstar - you risk damaging the nose of the starter, the starter pinion gear, the flexplate or the engine case itself.

No...I haven't tried his trick - it's a thought, though...

Ordered the Kent Moore tool today - $131.60. That hurts but I learned a long time ago that the factory tools can't be beat for jobs like this - I have a tool chest full of Alfa Romeo and Jaguar factory tools. And they all earned what I paid for them many times over.

Thanks again.

While I think $131.60 is an absolute rape job for that tool, you will have paid for it with the money saved by doing the work yourself so it all works out in the end. I like to fabricate the special tools when I can and it only took an hour or so to make the flywheel lock when I repaired my engine.

WAIT! STOP! Do not use this method on the Northstar - you risk damaging the nose of the starter, the starter pinion gear, the flexplate or the engine case itself.

No...I haven't tried his trick - it's a thought, though...

Ordered the Kent Moore tool today - $131.60. That hurts but I learned a long time ago that the factory tools can't be beat for jobs like this - I have a tool chest full of Alfa Romeo and Jaguar factory tools. And they all earned what I paid for them many times over.

Thanks again.

OK, I don't know the northstar crank bolt. I will take a calculated guess that it is in the neighborhood of 19mm(3/4in.) & 21mm(15/16in) I would take a wild guess and say a threadlocker of some sort was used on it at factory assembly. A 3/4 drive impact has always removed a 200+ft. pound bolt without fail. Here's another trick. With the proper size socket, on a breaker bar, turn the engine so the slack is gone, the bar end on the ground, crank the starter. Let the starter do the work. The socket has to be square on the bolt head or you may risk rounding the bolt head. Keep you're hands out of there, the starter has the power to do this with a full batt. charge. I'v done it on a glued in fastener. I would only recommend using a pneumatic 3/4 drive impact to make short work of it. A 1/2 in drive impact may work if its strong enough, most are'nt.

Threadlocker is not used on the Northstar balancer bolt. Using the starter trick you mention runs the risk of damaging the starter, or worse yet, the starter mounting flange....that could amount to a very costly mistake.

[BodybyFisher]

Here is a picture of the flywheel holder:

[billytheshoe]

Here is a picture of the flywheel holder:

This can be achived by using a piece of flat stock steel cut to an apropriate length at least 1" wide x 1/8th thick and stick one end in a ring gear tooth and wedge it against that bracket in a manner to lock the flexplate. I have done this on other engines. It works and is easy cheap. A piece of flat stock can be picked up at any Lowes, Home depot, or hardware store.

[clarkz71]

Your putting all the load on one tooth like that. The factory tool spreads the load on 3 or 4 teeth.

[billytheshoe]

Your putting all the load on one tooth like that. The factory tool spreads the load on 3 or 4 teeth.

It won't break a tooth. How tight is the bolt torque spec? I can't imagine it would be much more than 200ft. lb. This task should really be done with a impact. then a flywheel holder is redundent. Take it to the a garage & have a guy bust it loose with a impact and then just snug it up to get you home. This would be another optoin

[KHE]

Your putting all the load on one tooth like that. The factory tool spreads the load on 3 or 4 teeth.

It won't break a tooth. How tight is the bolt torque spec? I can't imagine it would be much more than 200ft. lb. This task should really be done with a impact. then a flywheel holder is redundent. Take it to the a garage & have a guy bust it loose with a impact and then just snug it up to get you home. This would be another optoin

It probably is greater than 200 ft-lbs... The torque spec. on the balancer bolt is 105 ft-lbs +120 degrees. A flywheel holder such as the factory tool is best because it spreads the load across several teeth.

I think the car in question is disassembled far enough that transporting it is not an option at this point. Having a shop loosen the bolt and "snugging it up" may result in the loss of oil pressure and severe engine damage. The balancer must be tight against the oil pump drive bushing or the result will be zero oil pressure.

[billytheshoe]

WAIT! STOP! Do not use this method on the Northstar - you risk damaging the nose of the starter, the starter pinion gear, the flexplate or the engine case itself.

No...I haven't tried his trick - it's a thought, though...

Ordered the Kent Moore tool today - $131.60. That hurts but I learned a long time ago that the factory tools can't be beat for jobs like this - I have a tool chest full of Alfa Romeo and Jaguar factory tools. And they all earned what I paid for them many times over.

Thanks again.

While I think $131.60 is an absolute rape job for that tool, you will have paid for it with the money saved by doing the work yourself so it all works out in the end. I like to fabricate the special tools when I can and it only took an hour or so to make the flywheel lock when I repaired my engine.

WAIT! STOP! Do not use this method on the Northstar - you risk damaging the nose of the starter, the starter pinion gear, the flexplate or the engine case itself.

No...I haven't tried his trick - it's a thought, though...

Ordered the Kent Moore tool today - $131.60. That hurts but I learned a long time ago that the factory tools can't be beat for jobs like this - I have a tool chest full of Alfa Romeo and Jaguar factory tools. And they all earned what I paid for them many times over.

Thanks again.

OK, I don't know the northstar crank bolt. I will take a calculated guess that it is in the neighborhood of 19mm(3/4in.) & 21mm(15/16in) I would take a wild guess and say a threadlocker of some sort was used on it at factory assembly. A 3/4 drive impact has always removed a 200+ft. pound bolt without fail. Here's another trick. With the proper size socket, on a breaker bar, turn the engine so the slack is gone, the bar end on the ground, crank the starter. Let the starter do the work. The socket has to be square on the bolt head or you may risk rounding the bolt head. Keep you're hands out of there, the starter has the power to do this with a full batt. charge. I'v done it on a glued in fastener. I would only recommend using a pneumatic 3/4 drive impact to make short work of it. A 1/2 in drive impact may work if its strong enough, most are'nt.

Threadlocker is not used on the Northstar balancer bolt. Using the starter trick you mention runs the risk of damaging the starter, or worse yet, the starter mounting flange....that could amount to a very costly mistake.

Well I learning as I go along here, I will insist that Special tools are for people with "special needs" and absolutely 99% of the time if one is a resourceful thinker can achieve a goal or task by other means or methods. I am determined to finish a job & have the common sense to follow through without hack work. I take the time needed. Sometimes a special tool maybe nessesary. not that often. This is an interesting method of tightening. Torqeing a bolt is in fact the wrong term for all threaded fasters. What you try to achieve is maximum stretch of the fastener without going over is elastic limit. The bolt manufacturer has determind at 105ftlb + 120 degrees and the bolt strength is maxed out. I like it. It seems a much more sensible way to tighten a fastener. I'll go out on a limb & suggest that if its a aprox. 1/2 in. bolt is dam close to 200ftlb. when tightend this way.