97 deville won't pass NYS emissions STILL

[swyne1]

WAIT!!!! STOP!!!

Is this car a Canda car brought INTO the US?

The PCM program is different. It cannot pass US emissions. The way the program is setup...it cant pass the US emissions ready staus..

There is...somewhere...a GM TSB/ bullitin related to this. There may be a exempt procedure issue.

I did not read the posts. But can you verify it is a Canada car?

Thank you.

ACCORDING TO CARFAX IT SHOWS WHEN THE VEHICLE ENTERED THE US. IT HAS SOME CANADIAN (FRENCH) GLASS DECALS RIGHT NEXT TO THE ENGLISH ONES. BESIDES THE CARFAX REPORT HAS IT BEING PURCHASED NEW FOR A LEASING COMPANY VEHICLE. THEN SHOWS IT HAD BEEN SOLD AND BROUGHT THROUGH CUSTOMS. NOW I HAD TOLD THE GM GARAGE THIS AND THEY JUST ASSUMED IT WAS THE COMPUTER.

Here is the bulletin...looks like the PCM needs to get reprogrammed for US emissions. In addition it looks like GM will do it for free...

Important: "GM of Canada" dealers are not authorized to utilize this service bulletin.

This service information bulletin can be used to address customer concerns regarding state OBD II emission inspection and maintenance testing. 1996 and 1997 GM vehicles that were originally designed and built for sale in Canada, and now reside in the U.S., may require U.S. Federal calibrations and/or components to meet U.S. Federal OBD II requirements. Customers may be referred to GM dealers with concerns about passing their state OBD II emission inspection and maintenance test for this reason. This bulletin addresses the procedures necessary to retrofit a Canadian designed vehicle to meet U.S. Federal OBD II requirements.

Due to concerns with GM Canadian designed vehicle compatibility with the various state OBD II inspection and maintenance programs, GM has established a U.S. Federal On-Board Diagnostics (OBD) II retrofit program to retrofit eligible 1996 and 1997 GM Canadian vehicles (less than 8,500 lbs GVWR). These vehicles, once retrofitted, will meet U.S. Federal OBD II requirements. These vehicles can be identified by a Canadian underhood emission label and/or a Z49 Regular Production Option (RPO) code found on the Service Parts Identification (SPID) label. GM Dealers may also identify these vehicles by using the GM Vehicle Inquiry System (GMVIS).

Eligible GM Canadian vehicles are classified into three categories with regards to the requirements necessary to properly retrofit these vehicles.

Category 1

All 1996 and 1997 GM cars and light duty trucks (less than 8,500 lbs GVWR).

Require a U.S. Federal OBD II engine calibration ONLY, except for the following vehicles:

• Chevrolet Cavalier/Pontiac Sunfire (J), Pontiac Grand Am/Oldsmobile Achieva/Buick Skylark/Chevrolet Malibu (N), Chevrolet Corsica/Chevrolet Beretta (L) equipped with 2.2L or 2.4L engines.

• Chevrolet/Geo Tracker

• Chevrolet/Geo Metro

• Cadillac Catera

Category 2

1996 and 1997 Chevrolet Cavalier/Pontiac Sunfire (J), Pontiac Grand Am/Oldsmobile Achieva/Buick Skylark/Chevrolet Malibu (N), Chevrolet Corsica/Chevrolet Beretta (L) equipped with 2.2L or 2.4L engines.

• Require the installation of a rear oxygen sensor. Note: this may require the installation of a catalytic converter and/or exhaust components manufactured with a rear oxygen sensor boss to facilitate sensor installation.

• Require a U.S. Federal OBD II engine calibration.

Category 3

1996 and 1997 Chevrolet/Geo Tracker, Chevrolet/Geo Metro and Cadillac Catera -- requires a U.S. Federal engine control module.

Reprogramming Information

For vehicles that require programming, dealers are instructed to contact the Techline Customer Support Center (TCSC) at 1-800-828-6860 to verify a vehicle's eligibility and to receive reprogramming information. A new Vehicle Configuration Index (VCI) will be created and is required to properly retrofit these vehicles with U.S. Federal OBD II calibrations.

Parts and Installation Information

For those vehicles that require parts, dealers are advised to use the 1996/1997 U.S. equivalent components available through normal channels and refer to the appropriate Service Manual for installation procedures, oxygen sensor lead routing and connector locations.

Dealer Costs

For GM vehicles that require a new calibration, this OBD retrofit will cost GM dealers $200 U.S. dollars for the creation of the VCI. These vehicles can then be re-calibrated to meet U.S. Federal OBD II requirements once a GM dealer has gained access to the modified vehicle configuration records.

Customer Costs

Customers requesting this Federal OBD II retrofit should be made aware that the cost of the retrofit will vary depending on the category of the vehicle and the GM dealers' pricing policies.

Cost elements for retrofits may include the following:

Category 1

• $200 VCI creation fee

• Vehicle reprogramming

• Inspection and maintenance readiness flag setting

Category 2

• $200 VCI creation fee

• Vehicle reprogramming

• Rear oxygen sensor and installation

• Catalytic converter and/or exhaust components and installation

• Inspection and maintenance readiness flag setting

Category 3

• Engine control module and installation

• Inspection and maintenance readiness flag setting

Additionally, prior to retrofitting a vehicle, dealers should advise customers that additional OBD system repair costs could become necessary after a retrofit, if additional service is necessary due to illumination of the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) once the U.S. Federal OBD II calibration or engine control module is installed.

Proof of Retrofit

Once a vehicle has been properly retrofitted, dealers should complete the form below and provide a copy to the customer as evidence of a vehicle conversion. Dealers should also state on the repair order that the "vehicle has been retrofitted to meet U.S. Federal OBD II requirements."

Thankyou very much on this. Is this something a dealership should know? I'am going tomarrow after work and see what they say. THIS SHOULD BE REAL INTERESTING

Again, Thankyou, Swyne

[BodybyFisher]

Good Luck with this, stick to your guns! Mike

[GreenMachine]

Thankyou very much on this. Is this something a dealership should know? I'am going tomarrow after work and see what they say. THIS SHOULD BE REAL INTERESTING

Again, Thankyou, Swyne

I don't mean to "dog" on a dealership but they should have also look at all the avenues that NYS Inspections give, I think it was us that pointed out the 1 year waiver. That at least gave you time and keeps the car street legal.

I hope this all works out well, alot of hassle for a perfectly fine car.

[Logan]

It would not be the first time.....that a GM TSB or recall has shown up on this site....that the GM dealer/shop was not aware of...

GM TSB's are useless unless the Techs go looking for them.

They typically are paid book time. Slim profits. No time to search TSBs. Strange but true. No way to run a shop.

'GM certified shop?' What IS that? They at least need a GM Tech2...GM Techline terminal. ACCESS to GM service bulletins and TSB's. GM Tech 2 PCM programming. ETC.

Personally, I knew I had heard of issues with Canadian cars coming into the US..not able to pass the US fed emissions. Last night I knew there was...somewhere a GM TSB about this.

We DO have access to the GM TSBs and recalls...

[swyne1]

Good Luck with this, stick to your guns! Mike

Hello fellas, Back from the garage. When I went there I asked the gentlemen if he would take a look at those "monitors" again to see if there ready yet like he asked me to. He got the scan tool out and guess what? NOT READY. Big surprise uh! So I asked him if he heard about this TSB that you people kindly sent me and to his knowledge NO. So I kindly handed the TSB to him and he read a bit of it and told me that a VCI really doesn't apply to my car and that he gave me a telephone number for NYS inspections office to see where I go from here. I did mention to him If I keep this car, do I have to put another $450 bucks into it next year to pass? What about the next person to own this headache. I guess we will all know what he'll be spending next year right? Anyway So after recieving the phone number I kindly said thankyou and left. I went right to another GM dealer and explained this whole situation to him from day one. He got on to his computer and after about 3minutes (bingo) word for word he had the same thing that I had. So I had made an appt with him for Tuesday and he had said he wasn't aware of this, but said "you don't know if you don't look". He also said he's never performed this before but looks to be easy enough to have your car back to you the same day. My intentions are hopefully getting this car fixed with this procedure and then I'll go have these monitors read again by this brain wizard and for a split second I'll let him believe that he fixed it. Then I'm gonna wail on him for the $463 dollars I spent on nothing. I'll be open to any suggestions. Thankyou

[Bruce Nunnally]

Sounds promising; hopefully the second place will fix you up. Odd that the first place would respond that way, but I guess he'd be embarassed to admit the truth?

[rcirobin]

Good Luck with this, stick to your guns! Mike

Hello fellas, Back from the garage. When I went there I asked the gentlemen if he would take a look at those "monitors" again to see if there ready yet like he asked me to. He got the scan tool out and guess what? NOT READY. Big surprise uh! So I asked him if he heard about this TSB that you people kindly sent me and to his knowledge NO. So I kindly handed the TSB to him and he read a bit of it and told me that a VCI really doesn't apply to my car and that he gave me a telephone number for NYS inspections office to see where I go from here. I did mention to him If I keep this car, do I have to put another $450 bucks into it next year to pass? What about the next person to own this headache. I guess we will all know what he'll be spending next year right? Anyway So after recieving the phone number I kindly said thankyou and left. I went right to another GM dealer and explained this whole situation to him from day one. He got on to his computer and after about 3minutes (bingo) word for word he had the same thing that I had. So I had made an appt with him for Tuesday and he had said he wasn't aware of this, but said "you don't know if you don't look". He also said he's never performed this before but looks to be easy enough to have your car back to you the same day. My intentions are hopefully getting this car fixed with this procedure and then I'll go have these monitors read again by this brain wizard and for a split second I'll let him believe that he fixed it. Then I'm gonna wail on him for the $463

dollars I spent on nothing. I'll be open to any suggestions. Thankyou

What happened???????

[swyne1]

Good Luck with this, stick to your guns! Mike

Hello fellas, Back from the garage. When I went there I asked the gentlemen if he would take a look at those "monitors" again to see if there ready yet like he asked me to. He got the scan tool out and guess what? NOT READY. Big surprise uh! So I asked him if he heard about this TSB that you people kindly sent me and to his knowledge NO. So I kindly handed the TSB to him and he read a bit of it and told me that a VCI really doesn't apply to my car and that he gave me a telephone number for NYS inspections office to see where I go from here. I did mention to him If I keep this car, do I have to put another $450 bucks into it next year to pass? What about the next person to own this headache. I guess we will all know what he'll be spending next year right? Anyway So after recieving the phone number I kindly said thankyou and left. I went right to another GM dealer and explained this whole situation to him from day one. He got on to his computer and after about 3minutes (bingo) word for word he had the same thing that I had. So I had made an appt with him for Tuesday and he had said he wasn't aware of this, but said "you don't know if you don't look". He also said he's never performed this before but looks to be easy enough to have your car back to you the same day. My intentions are hopefully getting this car fixed with this procedure and then I'll go have these monitors read again by this brain wizard and for a split second I'll let him believe that he fixed it. Then I'm gonna wail on him for the $463

dollars I spent on nothing. I'll be open to any suggestions. Thankyou

What happened???????

11/14/06 GOT THE VEHICLE BACK TODAY!!! THE RETROFIT OF THE OBD FROM GM IS WHAT IT NEEDED. THE SCAN TOOL SHOWS O2 SENSOR, CATALYST AND HEATED 02 ALL "READY". THE TOTAL COST WAS $280. THANKS, SWYNE

Good Luck with this, stick to your guns! Mike

Hello fellas, Back from the garage. When I went there I asked the gentlemen if he would take a look at those "monitors" again to see if there ready yet like he asked me to. He got the scan tool out and guess what? NOT READY. Big surprise uh! So I asked him if he heard about this TSB that you people kindly sent me and to his knowledge NO. So I kindly handed the TSB to him and he read a bit of it and told me that a VCI really doesn't apply to my car and that he gave me a telephone number for NYS inspections office to see where I go from here. I did mention to him If I keep this car, do I have to put another $450 bucks into it next year to pass? What about the next person to own this headache. I guess we will all know what he'll be spending next year right? Anyway So after recieving the phone number I kindly said thankyou and left. I went right to another GM dealer and explained this whole situation to him from day one. He got on to his computer and after about 3minutes (bingo) word for word he had the same thing that I had. So I had made an appt with him for Tuesday and he had said he wasn't aware of this, but said "you don't know if you don't look". He also said he's never performed this before but looks to be easy enough to have your car back to you the same day. My intentions are hopefully getting this car fixed with this procedure and then I'll go have these monitors read again by this brain wizard and for a split second I'll let him believe that he fixed it. Then I'm gonna wail on him for the $463

dollars I spent on nothing. I'll be open to any suggestions. Thankyou

What happened???????

11/14/06 GOT THE VEHICLE BACK TODAY!!! THE RETROFIT OF THE OBD FROM GM IS WHAT IT NEEDED. THE SCAN TOOL SHOWS O2 SENSOR, CATALYST AND HEATED 02 ALL "READY". THE TOTAL COST WAS $280. THANKS, SWYNE

I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT THIS WORK ONLY TOOK 1 DAY.

[PAUL T]

That is just great!!!! Another happy Cadillac person!!! Way to go Logan!!! Is this board great or what!!!

[rcirobin]

Good Luck with this, stick to your guns! Mike

Hello fellas, Back from the garage. When I went there I asked the gentlemen if he would take a look at those "monitors" again to see if there ready yet like he asked me to. He got the scan tool out and guess what? NOT READY. Big surprise uh! So I asked him if he heard about this TSB that you people kindly sent me and to his knowledge NO. So I kindly handed the TSB to him and he read a bit of it and told me that a VCI really doesn't apply to my car and that he gave me a telephone number for NYS inspections office to see where I go from here. I did mention to him If I keep this car, do I have to put another $450 bucks into it next year to pass? What about the next person to own this headache. I guess we will all know what he'll be spending next year right? Anyway So after recieving the phone number I kindly said thankyou and left. I went right to another GM dealer and explained this whole situation to him from day one. He got on to his computer and after about 3minutes (bingo) word for word he had the same thing that I had. So I had made an appt with him for Tuesday and he had said he wasn't aware of this, but said "you don't know if you don't look". He also said he's never performed this before but looks to be easy enough to have your car back to you the same day. My intentions are hopefully getting this car fixed with this procedure and then I'll go have these monitors read again by this brain wizard and for a split second I'll let him believe that he fixed it. Then I'm gonna wail on him for the $463

dollars I spent on nothing. I'll be open to any suggestions. Thankyou

What happened???????

11/14/06 GOT THE VEHICLE BACK TODAY!!! THE RETROFIT OF THE OBD FROM GM IS WHAT IT NEEDED. THE SCAN TOOL SHOWS O2 SENSOR, CATALYST AND HEATED 02 ALL "READY". THE TOTAL COST WAS $280. THANKS, SWYNE

Good Luck with this, stick to your guns! Mike

Hello fellas, Back from the garage. When I went there I asked the gentlemen if he would take a look at those "monitors" again to see if there ready yet like he asked me to. He got the scan tool out and guess what? NOT READY. Big surprise uh! So I asked him if he heard about this TSB that you people kindly sent me and to his knowledge NO. So I kindly handed the TSB to him and he read a bit of it and told me that a VCI really doesn't apply to my car and that he gave me a telephone number for NYS inspections office to see where I go from here. I did mention to him If I keep this car, do I have to put another $450 bucks into it next year to pass? What about the next person to own this headache. I guess we will all know what he'll be spending next year right? Anyway So after recieving the phone number I kindly said thankyou and left. I went right to another GM dealer and explained this whole situation to him from day one. He got on to his computer and after about 3minutes (bingo) word for word he had the same thing that I had. So I had made an appt with him for Tuesday and he had said he wasn't aware of this, but said "you don't know if you don't look". He also said he's never performed this before but looks to be easy enough to have your car back to you the same day. My intentions are hopefully getting this car fixed with this procedure and then I'll go have these monitors read again by this brain wizard and for a split second I'll let him believe that he fixed it. Then I'm gonna wail on him for the $463

dollars I spent on nothing. I'll be open to any suggestions. Thankyou

What happened???????

11/14/06 GOT THE VEHICLE BACK TODAY!!! THE RETROFIT OF THE OBD FROM GM IS WHAT IT NEEDED. THE SCAN TOOL SHOWS O2 SENSOR, CATALYST AND HEATED 02 ALL "READY". THE TOTAL COST WAS $280. THANKS, SWYNE

I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT THIS WORK ONLY TOOK 1 DAY.

I'm happy to hear everything worked out for you. Did you go back to the first dealer and try to get your money back? At the very least you should let him know what an idiot he is! Many Thanks to Logan for the great info on the TSB. .....Rob

[BodybyFisher]

Yes this was a good one Logan!

So did the dealer refund any of your money for the PCM that was not needed?

[What job]

What levels is the car coming back with(NOx, CO, and HC)? and what levels are you allowed to go upto? Which part is it failing, or all of them?

WITH OUT HAVING THE COMPUTER HOOKED UP TO THE CAR NOW. I CAN REMEMBER SEEING THE VALUES CHANGE AND THE GENTLEMEN POINTED IT OUT. HE SAID YOUR MONITORS ARE WORKING, THE COMPUTER IS JUST NOT STORING THE INFO WHEN THE CAR IS SHUT OFF. THEN TO INSPECT OBVIOUSLY THE KEY IS IN THE ON POSITION AND THOSE MONITORS JUST SIMPLY SAY "NOT READY"

THERE WAS A BATTERY INSTALLED JUST BEFORE I WENT TO THE INSPECTION STATION HOWEVER I PLACED 3 DRIVE CYCLES AND ALSO ACCUMULATED ROUGHLY 160 MILES OF DRIVING BEFORE I DECIDED TO TAKE IT TO GM TO HAVE THEM LOOK AT IT THEY HAD IT JUST OVER 2 WEEKS AND THEN CALLED ME AND WE WENT THE WAIVER DEAL FOR THE YEAR. THE BILL WAS $463. I PICKED UP THE CAR THE NEXT DAY AND HE TOLD ME TO JUST DRIVE IT AND BRING IT BACK IN A MONTH. HE SAID HE PERFORMED A COUPLE OF DRIVE CYCLES JUST AFTER INSTALLATION BUT STILL COMING BACK "NOT READY" I WOULD LIKE TO JUST MAKE IT RIGHT IN MY OWN MIND AS WHY. THANKYOU VERY MUCH RESPONDING.

If you were to go out and turn the key to the on position(not start the car) then check the codes what codes are shown if any?

If any PCM codes come up then after the system check is done and PCM? is displayed enter yes. This will take you to the PCM data screen. You need to find all codes that are current and also the ones that are history.

These system are very good at telling just what problem they have if you know how to follow them.The computer will tell what circuit / part is failing to a point.

If you have any current codes find out what they mean but you need to a fault tree too be able to find the real problem. If you jump any part of the fault tree it is easy to miss the cause.

Aldata is ok as a way of finding fault trees but not the best.

There is so much tied to each system that there could be a problem with the fuel cap that is setting a code on another part of the system.

Example, code po60 shown, you find out what code po60 is.

Lets say it's the rear 02 sensor and you replace it without using a fault tree.

After clearing the codes, the code po60 is still there after you start the car.

Now if you had a fault tree it may ask is there a code po17 set with the code po60? If yes then go to this circuit / test. In the end you may find the po17 code could be a loose fuel cap. After fixing the cap the code po60 goes away.

In other words you could be looking past the real cause of the po60 code set. Another part or circuit could set the code po60 but not show as the main cause for the code set. If one circuit fails it can set a code for another part of the system.

The circuit that failed may not show up as the problem circuit but as a item to be checked on a fault tree. The main circuit it is tied to shows up instead.

I am not very good at explaining things too say the least but I hope you get an idea of what I'm trying to say. Just because a code is set it doesn't mean that is the problem.

These are just code numbers I picked. They do not maen anything other than to make a point.

Good luck.

[zonie77]

I have to add to this thread.

My brother has a 97 STS that came from Canada. It passed the tailpipe emissions test fine but this year he had to pass the OBD2 ready test and the computer would not get enough flags ready. He just had his reprogrammed and it passed today. Cost about the same as Swyne's.

If it wasn't for the this thread he might still be fighting it. There is a main office that handles waivers, he went there and the inspector told him it may need to be reprogrammed but the dealer initially could't find the TSB that Logan posted. They looked again after he showed them Logan's post and found it.

[swyne1]

I have to add to this thread.

My brother has a 97 STS that came from Canada. It passed the tailpipe emissions test fine but this year he had to pass the OBD2 ready test and the computer would not get enough flags ready. He just had his reprogrammed and it passed today. Cost about the same as Swyne's.

If it wasn't for the this thread he might still be fighting it. There is a main office that handles waivers, he went there and the inspector told him it may need to be reprogrammed but the dealer initially could't find the TSB that Logan posted. They looked again after he showed them Logan's post and found it.

I know that you had emailed me on this and I'm glad everything worked out. It really makes you feel like your car is worthless just because of this. And some of those dealers make so much money off of this. I had gone to the first dealer and explained and I wanted answers. He basiclly talked in jibber jabber saying "gee I had know idea!! BLAA BLAA BLAA. So I asked for some money back and after a week of back and forth playing phone chase and trying to give me "half" and then it was a " store credit" I let him have it with getting ahold of GM with my attorney and we can sit down and have a discussion about this. The caved and called to let me know that they placed a check in the mail. I'm really glad to be a member of this site with all these people who take the time out to help. I can't thank them enough. Thankyou very much, SWYNE

[BodybyFisher]

Standing ovation for Logan!

[mmarinov]

Standing ovation for Logan!

Seconded! What a great story!

Swyne, I'm glad you took the guy to the mat.

[zonie77]

Logan,

I want to add a thanks to you. If you hadn't posted that my brother would still be waiting for the flags to come ready!