kcd1184 Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Got off work a little early so decided to tackle the right front CV shaft replacement. I,ve been hearing a rumble also and my parts guy and friend said to take the caliper and rotor off also and check the bearing for problems while I am at it. It went OK, and I am going to replace the short stabilizer arm bushings and one ball joint(that was ripped before) on the body arm that pivots off the frame and attaches under the strut. The bearing is ok as far as I can tell. I compared it to a new one for movement. Just a little looser.My friend didn't get the bushings and ball joint in time so I have to wait till tomorrow. Now my problem begins Since the right bearing is OK, and I think I have the process down, and I am already dirty and the tools are out, I decide to check the left bearing. All goes well except that to remove the floating piece of frame (rocker arm?) that attaches to the ball joint under the strut, you have to remove the bolt that attaches it to the frame. There is a trans/motor mount blocking removal by about 2 inches. Shortening the bolt before removal won't allow reusage, and you can't cut the bolt and get a new one and insert from the opposite way because of frame angle. I checked the bearing and it too is OK I think. Where is that rumble coming from? I want to drop the arm because that is the only way the short stabizer bar comes out of the front frame, so I can replace the rubber bushings. Any ideas? Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 You WILL NOT be able to manually feel a bad hub bearing its impossible. Do series of s-turns and see if you can turn the moan/groan on and off... typically when you turn left and you hear a groan its the right hub bearing, and visa versa, turn right, its the left.. That to me is the only way to determine a bad hub bearing, s-turns EXPLAIN RUMBLE..... Does your tire have saw-toothing? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 You WILL NOT be able to manually feel a bad hub bearing its impossible. Do series of s-turns and see if you can turn the moan/groan on and off... typically when you turn left and you hear a groan its the right hub bearing, and visa versa, turn right, its the left.. That to me is the only way to determine a bad hub bearing, s-turns EXPLAIN RUMBLE..... Does your tire have saw-toothing? Tires are perfct. It's like a low rumble/ vibration at about 55/65 going straight. Seems more pronounced earlier in the day. I don't know how to explain it but I pulled over this morning to chek for a low tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Can you vary the rumble by turning the wheel back and forth? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 You WILL NOT be able to manually feel a bad hub bearing its impossible. Do series of s-turns and see if you can turn the moan/groan on and off... typically when you turn left and you hear a groan its the right hub bearing, and visa versa, turn right, its the left.. That to me is the only way to determine a bad hub bearing, s-turns EXPLAIN RUMBLE..... Does your tire have saw-toothing? If the CV shaft is detached from the hub bearing, why can't you detect some problems that might exist with the bearing. Friction spots, noises, etc. I don't understand. Can you vary the rumble by turning the wheel back and forth? Cars apart and I would like to try and find a solution besides putting it back together and then taking it apart again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 You WILL NOT be able to manually feel a bad hub bearing its impossible. Do series of s-turns and see if you can turn the moan/groan on and off... typically when you turn left and you hear a groan its the right hub bearing, and visa versa, turn right, its the left.. That to me is the only way to determine a bad hub bearing, s-turns EXPLAIN RUMBLE..... Does your tire have saw-toothing? Tires are perfct. It's like a low rumble/ vibration at about 55/65 going straight. Seems more pronounced earlier in the day. I don't know how to explain it but I pulled over this morning to chek for a low tire. A bad hub bearing would make noise at much lower speeds as well. Actually it is easier to hear it when you drive at some 25-35 MPH down a hill. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I have replaced 4 hub bearings (two on a 91 and two on a 96). They made a growl, groan, and moan.... when you held them in your hands, they felt fine, they need to be LOADED for the bearing to begin moaning... (I'v dated a few women like that also.. )....anyway, If you drove straight they are FINE, once you turn and LOAD them.... MOAN... you could never feel that in your hands... That is why its important to diagnose a hub bearing problem with the right techique.. S-TURNS.. For some reason, I dont think your problem is a bearing, its usually not a constant rumble.. It could be a bad axle, transaxle bearing (I think Logan had a bad bearing in the transaxle). If you pull your axle out look at the spline..for odd wear.. Grab the axle to see if you have play.. If your lower ball joint is bad it allows your front end to squat putting strain on your hub bearing. Are your tires wearing uneven (insides?).. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I have replaced 4 hub bearings (two on a 91 and two on a 96). They made a growl, groan, and moan.... when you held them in your hands, they felt fine, they need to be LOADED for the bearing to begin moaning... (I'v dated a few women like that also.. )....anyway, If you drove straight they are FINE, once you turn and LOAD them.... MOAN... you could never feel that in your hands... That is why its important to diagnose a hub bearing problem with the right techique.. S-TURNS.. For some reason, I dont think your problem is a bearing, its usually not a constant rumble.. It could be a bad axle, transaxle bearing (I think Logan had a bad bearing in the transaxle). If you pull your axle out look at the spline..for odd wear.. Grab the axle to see if you have play.. If your lower ball joint is bad it allows your front end to squat putting strain on your hub bearing. Are your tires wearing uneven (insides?).. "If you drove straight they are FINE, once you turn and LOAD them.... MOAN... you could never feel that in your hands..." Are you talking about the women or the hubs? The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 You engineers aren't addressing my bolt issue. You are undressing it. Do you think I could cut the bolt out and put a much shorter one in and use cotter pins? The the bolted end of the arm is between two brackets and all the force is up, down and out . The blot also runs inside a metal sleve inside a rubber bushing. Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 You engineers aren't addressing my bolt issue. You are undressing it. Do you think I could cut the bolt out and put a much shorter one in and use cotter pins? The the bolted end of the arm is between two brackets and all the force is up, down and out . The blot also runs inside a metal sleve inside a rubber bushing. Kent Kent, I re-read your original post and now I think I understand what you mean. That is not a rocker arm that is the lower control arm. I have in fact had the same problem you are experiencing, getting that bolt out, I had it on my 96. It got in....so you will get it out, believe it or not... detach the ball joint if you have not done so. Use a punch to push that bolt out, once it starts to move it will come out if it was like mine. Mike By the way, you don't need to remove the lower control arm to get the axle shaft out, if that is why you are trying to get that bolt out.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Correct. You ONLY need to remove the ball joint, the stabilizer bushing, the tie rod end and the little dog bone thingy that attached to the CVRSS sensor... Once that is done you will have enough play to "pop" out the axle. Nothing else gets disconnected... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 The right side lower control arm came off easily and the front bar rubber bushings were worn. They come as a kit (right and left side) so that is why I am on a mission to replace the left side also. On my car there is still an 1and1/2 of thread left inside when the head hits the mount. I have to grind off the rivots to replace the control arm ball joints on bothsides so I will just cut the rivot of the front left bar too. I am not going to replace the hub bearings yet. Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted September 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 The project is done, I think, so far, maybe. If I started over again, knowing what I know now, I could do what I did in 1/3 of the time. I learned and if anyone needs help, ask me. The biggest time saver to tell anyone is that if you need to replace the RIVETED ball joints attached to the lower control arm, do not grind, drill them out. It is actually very thin metal on each side that sandwiches the ball joint in. Replacements are bolted. I had to tig some washers on to the LEARNING control arm side when my grinder cut through the thin metal. What I did was remove both lower control arms, replace rubber bushings on the short stabalizer bars coming off the control arm,remove and replace the ball joints on each control arm, replace right side CV axle (this was the start of the project because a boot was leaking), and invent a way to remove the driver's side control arm bolt.(patent pending) Seems to be driveable, I'll update in 100. Thanks for your help BBF, you are great.(I could'nt quit on that BOLT) Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 The right side lower control arm came off easily and the front bar rubber bushings were worn. They come as a kit (right and left side) so that is why I am on a mission to replace the left side also. On my car there is still an 1and1/2 of thread left inside when the head hits the mount. I have to grind off the rivots to replace the control arm ball joints on bothsides so I will just cut the rivot of the front left bar too. I am not going to replace the hub bearings yet. Kent You know I saw your statement about grinding off the rivet heads and kind of thought, well OK... if that is what you want to do, fine... You made a statement about grinding the rivet you didnt ask a question about it... I have had a hard time following this thread, I think our thinking styles clash. Sometimes that happens, I tend to be very methodical and have been distracted with work the last few days.. Below is the proper method out of the FSM. If you don't have a FSM its a very good thing to have. This is the method I use and its a piece of cake with a sharp bit and good drill (Milwalkee Hole Shooter for example). I bought a high quality 1/2" bit for this purpose and it goes through these hardened rivets like butta...(important to use drilling oil on the bit, these rivets are hardened) If you had of done a search under ball joint or rivet, you might have found this thread of my Front End rebuild. There is a photo under Post #24 that shows the 1/4" pilot holes detailed in the procedure outlined in the FSM. Post #25 has a photo of the rivets completely drilled out with a 1/2" bit! Maybe you missed this in your searches of the archives. See this thread http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...ivets&st=15 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted September 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 The right side lower control arm came off easily and the front bar rubber bushings were worn. They come as a kit (right and left side) so that is why I am on a mission to replace the left side also. On my car there is still an 1and1/2 of thread left inside when the head hits the mount. I have to grind off the rivots to replace the control arm ball joints on bothsides so I will just cut the rivot of the front left bar too. I am not going to replace the hub bearings yet. Kent You know I saw your statement about grinding off the rivet heads and kind of thought, well OK... if that is what you want to do, fine... You made a statement about grinding the rivet you didnt ask a question about it... I have had a hard time following this thread, I think our thinking styles clash. Sometimes that happens, I tend to be very methodical and have been distracted with work the last few days.. Below is the proper method out of the FSM. I got way ahead of myself, on this project and didn't follow my normal routine. I usually am pretty methodical also. Thanks for sticking with me and I will remember this going into the next project. Kent If you don't have a FSM its a very good thing to have. This is the method I use and its a piece of cake with a sharp bit and good drill (Milwalkee Hole Shooter for example). I bought a high quality 1/2" bit for this purpose and it goes through these hardened rivets like butta...(important to use drilling oil on the bit, these rivets are hardened) If you had of done a search under ball joint or rivet, you might have found this thread of my Front End rebuild. There is a photo under Post #24 that shows the 1/4" pilot holes detailed in the procedure outlined in the FSM. Post #25 has a photo of the rivets completely drilled out with a 1/2" bit! Maybe you missed this in your searches of the archives. See this thread http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...ivets&st=15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fretbuzz470 Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 If stock struts are in the vehicle. I usually just disconnect the caliper/rotor, outer tie rod, any wires or extras to the hub spindle then remove the strut bolts. That usually gives enough playing room to get the CV shaft out, and if it has stock struts the holes are both round so you dont affect the allignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarneyKris Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 What about rocking the tire once jacked up? I went tot he dealer and also an oil change place. The GM dealer hoisted up the car and shook the right front wheel holding it at 12 and 6 o'clock. There was a inch or so of play and they immediately told me I have a bad wheel bearing so I bought a hub assembly for $100 at Autozone. Did not install it yet. I did not hear any noise and did not try S-curve procedure. Just took the head mechanics word for it? They didn't drive it just jacked it up. Should I install it and is it an easy procedure? Should it be done in pairs? Do I need a new hub nut? FSM stated to replace nut? The oil change kid shook the tire also and came to same conclusion. The he shook the left front and not much play holding at 6 and 12 o'clock but at 3 and 9 o'clock there was some play there so he said I need a new upper tie rod on left side? Should I believe him? He claims it is easy to install? Any advice? The front pads are shot so I have rotors and pads to do anyway. Any things to watch for, instructions on web sites seem pretty straightforward. Do I replace rotor screws with new ones? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 What about rocking the tire once jacked up? I went tot he dealer and also an oil change place. The GM dealer hoisted up the car and shook the right front wheel holding it at 12 and 6 o'clock. There was a inch or so of play and they immediately told me I have a bad wheel bearing so I bought a hub assembly for $100 at Autozone. Did not install it yet. I did not hear any noise and did not try S-curve procedure. Just took the head mechanics word for it? They didn't drive it just jacked it up. Should I install it and is it an easy procedure? Should it be done in pairs? Do I need a new hub nut? FSM stated to replace nut? That sounds more like a bad ball joint to me. If the bearing was that bad, you'd hear a noise while the car was in motion. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Hub assembly is not too bad of a job. Nor is the tie rod. Both sound bad based on your description. No need to replace the hubs in pairs. Don't fix what ain't broke. Brakes are like any others. What are "rotor screws"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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