ted tcb Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 While, I checked out the 97 STS today from my previous car fax link. 1 owner, elderly gent traded it in on a van at the Chev dealer in Markham, On. The car looks absolutely gorgeous .... no dings, clearcoat intact, black paint has no hazing, no corrosion anywhere, just a few small scratches. Checking the fender/bumper panels, the rear fender has been bumped about 1inch ... I'd have to get it lined up. No roof, standard rims, and no cd or 12 pack means it was a low option car ... things I'd miss. It was a very hot day, and the black interior was sizzling ... the ac is only blowing lukewarm air at best ... could be big bucks, nothing I'm capable of handling myself. I drove it hard, and no rear seal smells coming through the vent ... crawled underneath, and its dry. I can get past these things, because the car cosmetically is a 9 ... not a mark on the leather, 1 owner, 70,000 miles. Here's what scares me ... BBF once said he wouldn't touch a N* without knowing the coolant history ... I can't tell with this one. Looking in the surge tank, I see NOTHING! You can peer down about 4", and I see no coolant. I dipped a long piece of paper in, hoping to check the colour, and no coolant ... you can only see a damp residue about 4" down. The temp gage stayed at halfway during a 30 minute spirited drive in 94d heat. But this doesn't guarantee anything. I pulled the codes, and here they are: B2119 B1740 B1771 U1255 TC1223 C1224 P0603. Most of the codes were history, I think only one was current. I came close to buying based on emotion, but the loss of coolant and zero history really scares me. The trade for my 99 Accord would be even, and safety up to me. It looked like it could end up being a rather risky trade, as I know the Accord's history, and it has no issues. Interestingly enough, the DIC reads 10.8mpg on average ... none of my STS's have ever fallen below 14mpg, even including winter idling. Any thoughts on whether I was right to take a pass? ps: The dealer couldn't believe it when he saw me pull codes, check fender alignments, crawl under the car, check tranny fluid, and my attempt to find coolant in the surge tank. They really don't know how to recondition or sell the STS. 1989 FWD Fleetwood, Silver 1995 STS Crimson Pearl on Black leather 1997 STS Diamond White 1999 STS Crimson Pearl 2001 STS Silver 2003 STS, Crimson Pearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 I think this car is a good deal, with about 100,000 mile left in it at least. It will take more time to decide for sure, like an extended trial period or test drive. I didn't check the codes, but barring anything alarming, my only concern would be the coolant. Maybe, if you're really interested in this car, talk the dealer into changing the coolant and letting you test drive for about a week....that should reveal any serious problems. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted tcb Posted August 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 The deal is an even trade ... wholesale to wholesale, both cars as is. I tried to get them to pop for the safety, ac recharge, and coolant change. They won't spend $$$ unless they retail the car to me, for a higher number. I ran the codes ... they basically refer to a slow tape mechanism, power seat switch, lumbar switch, trac control engaged, and rear wheel hub. Nothing major. My question .... where is the coolant, shouldn't you always see something in the surge tank? 1989 FWD Fleetwood, Silver 1995 STS Crimson Pearl on Black leather 1997 STS Diamond White 1999 STS Crimson Pearl 2001 STS Silver 2003 STS, Crimson Pearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Yes, the surge tank should be about 1/2 full. Why are you trading a '99 for a '97? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted tcb Posted August 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Yes, the surge tank should be about 1/2 full. Why are you trading a '99 for a '97? I'd be trading my 99 Accord ... used as a 2nd car. I love the styling of the 97 STS, and it would make a great car for around town. My wife drives the Honda, and the STS would be hers ... maybe 3000 miles per year. The low mileage attracted me ... most 97 STS's around here have well over 100,000miles. Ranger ... I have always been able to clearly see fluid in my STS' surge tanks. Would it suprise you to see no fluid at all? 1989 FWD Fleetwood, Silver 1995 STS Crimson Pearl on Black leather 1997 STS Diamond White 1999 STS Crimson Pearl 2001 STS Silver 2003 STS, Crimson Pearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 OK yes I did say that (above) but, since its in such GREAT shape, you might want to take a chance and test it with this The relevant NAPA catalog is called "The PSA 2000 catalog" or the "Balkamp Catalog". The catalog calls the Block Tester a "combustion leak tester kit", so that's probably what you should ask for. From what I understand, it comes with a ball, tubes, test fluid, aspirator bulb and engine adapter (cone shaped device you place in your radiator filler cap). If there's exhaust in your coolant the test fluid changes color. See this link: http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLM...2f+Engine+Block You have to understand that I wear a BELT and SUSPENDERS! I am referred to as MR. SAFETY in my house..... See if you can get in touch with the owner! It looks like a beauty! Hope this helps! Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Yes, the surge tank should be about 1/2 full. Why are you trading a '99 for a '97? I'd be trading my 99 Accord ... used as a 2nd car. I love the styling of the 97 STS, and it would make a great car for around town. My wife drives the Honda, and the STS would be hers ... maybe 3000 miles per year. The low mileage attracted me ... most 97 STS's around here have well over 100,000miles. Ranger ... I have always been able to clearly see fluid in my STS' surge tanks. Would it suprise you to see no fluid at all? Ahh, now I see said the blind man. I thought you where trading your '99 Seville. I'd trade a '99 Honda for a '97 Caddy anyday. Yes, I would be surprised to see no coolant in the surge tank, and I would want to know where it is going. Could be a small external leak or was never topped off after cooling system service (air purged, coolent level went down). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonie77 Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 If the surge tank is filled with fresh coolant the byproduct test won't detect the exhaust gases. You'll have to drive it awhile to circulate some coolant. The test is a great idea. If there is a radiator shop near the dealer you could have it done there. They usally do it very inexpensively. Good idea from BodybyFisher. Just make sure you drive it awhile before you take it for the test. Another point. HG's usually show on hills, WOT, and spirited driving. I know you said you did the spirited driving part, are there some good hills nearby? That would be a good drive before the coolant test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 It could be that the coolant has never been checked since new, and that's the level it's naturally fallen to over 10 years. Who knows. No roof? I love open air driving. The CD changer can be added easily. I did that to mine. Sounds like a fine trade, 'specially for a Honda. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 I wouldn't be too concerned with the 10.8 MPG average - used cars for sale on a lot get idled a lot depending on how many people look at them. Short test drives also lower the average too. If you're serious about the car, see if they will let you take it overnight and then add coolant to the surge tank, drive it hard and then check the coolant for combustion gasses. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Is there a coolant level sensor in '97 Seville's reservoir or surge tank? If there is, someone has been ignoring a DIC message. Or the sensor connector is disconnected and jumpered to simulate the switch closed position. I would want to know why. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 P0603 - Control Module Long Term Memory Reset The P0603 means that the codes have been recently cleared. Did you check them again after you drove it? -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted tcb Posted August 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Yes, I probably did ... after retrieving the codes, I hit a few extra buttons. 1989 FWD Fleetwood, Silver 1995 STS Crimson Pearl on Black leather 1997 STS Diamond White 1999 STS Crimson Pearl 2001 STS Silver 2003 STS, Crimson Pearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Is there a coolant level sensor in '97 Seville's reservoir or surge tank? There is, but I'm not sure at what level. Towards the bottom I'm sure. It's unclear whether this car's surge tank is completely dry or just not full. In addition, the P0603 will not set if you simply clear the codes via the DIC. This is more likely a code set when the battery was bad or disconnected, etc. Clearing the codes via the DIC does not erase the PCM's long-term memory. That is only lost when the battery has been disconnected for a while. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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