gabyllac Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 i put 20in rim on my devilee and my brake were gone in 2week of use what kinda of perfornce brakes are out the for my car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 Check these rotors http://www.powerstoprotors.com/ and http://www.powerstopbrakes.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 Bob at x-m-s.com mentioned some 3 piston Baer brakes for the DTS; To Order contact Bob McAuliffe at XMS, phone toll free (877)490-4967 for info. http://www.angelfire.com/stars/mycaddy/baerbrakes.htm Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyman_2 Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 Oo I like those brakes. I'd love those on my '98 STS. Anyone know if these are too large for stock wheels?? Also, prices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjayzway Posted September 8, 2005 Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 Bob at x-m-s.com mentioned some 3 piston Baer brakes for the DTS; To Order contact Bob McAuliffe at XMS, phone toll free (877)490-4967 for info. http://www.angelfire.com/stars/mycaddy/baerbrakes.htm Those are some sweet brakes! I am not a fan of the "BLING" thing, but the brakes I am! I wonder if they will fit with a 17" rim? Big Jay Life is too short to grow up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabyllac Posted September 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 is there another cheap upgrade out there i just finish wyotech for auto and diesel repair and im kinda broke is there a cheap up grade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 is there another cheap upgrade out there i just finish wyotech for auto and diesel repair and im kinda broke is there a cheap up grade Kinda broke? With 20s on the car? In my opinion, brakes are more important than wheels...if push comes to shove, I'd sell the wheels and fix the car. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill K Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 I switched to a carbon metalic brake pad a year or so ago to stop the dusting. Might want to give those a try along w/ new rotors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaddyChris Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 is there another cheap upgrade out there i just finish wyotech for auto and diesel repair and im kinda broke is there a cheap up grade Kinda broke? With 20s on the car? In my opinion, brakes are more important than wheels...if push comes to shove, I'd sell the wheels and fix the car. hahaha, thats great, but yes, brakes are definately on top of the important list Christopher Petro 94 sts 67 coupe de Ville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 i put 20in rim on my devilee and my brake were gone in 2week of use what kinda of perfornce brakes are out the for my car Hopefully you don't hit any potholes...or the wheels might be damaged. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevyorange Posted September 10, 2005 Report Share Posted September 10, 2005 I read of Satisfied brand ceramic brakes... that don't dust either. I'm thinking of an upgrade for my 1994 STS. Maybe some slotted/drilled with ceramics or HP brakes... it will be a shame that nobody will be able to see them under the stock wheels (which I like, they blind people on bright days). Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 10, 2005 Report Share Posted September 10, 2005 I read of Satisfied brand ceramic brakes... that don't dust either. I'm thinking of an upgrade for my 1994 STS. Maybe some slotted/drilled with ceramics or HP brakes... it will be a shame that nobody will be able to see them under the stock wheels (which I like, they blind people on bright days). Adam They may not be able to see them, but you will be hauling your Caddy down to a stop in no time, and you will see the benefit of them! I am considering drilled rotors and ceramic pads for my next brake job maybe even sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etcxtc Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I am so tired of warped rotors that I am going to cryogenically treated (deep frozen) rotors on my wife's Deville. We aren't hard on the brakes and we don't ride them. I've had this problem on the '98 Deville we have now and the '97 Concours we had a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etcxtc Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 This may be an ignorant question, but what's the point with the rubber band tires (no sidewall) and the large wheels on a Cadillac??? Aren't you going to damage the wheel when you run over a small stone? Didn't you just have to sell your first born son for those wheels??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Etcxtc, get crossdrilled rotors! http://www.jnjhome.net/cadillac/rotors.htm I put them on in December 2002, at 86k miles. The car now has 146k miles. That's SIXTY THOUSAND MILES and I've never had to touch the rotors or install new pads. This car would historically need brakes at least 2-3 times in that period, and it sounds like the same with your Devilles. Consider crossdrilled when you buy new rotors. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I am so tired of warped rotors that I am going to cryogenically treated (deep frozen) rotors on my wife's Deville. We aren't hard on the brakes and we don't ride them. I've had this problem on the '98 Deville we have now and the '97 Concours we had a few years ago. If you're generally easy on your brakes and you have a quality setup then I might suspect something other then "inferior" rotors. You might have sticky caliper slides. A common problem and is one way to degrade any rotor, no matter how good, in a hurry. The slides are serviceable. I have Bendix one piece cast rotors all the way around matched up with Bendix Premium pads. One piece cast has better heat dissapation than composite rotors but is a little heavier. I'm happy with the setup. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I am so tired of warped rotors that I am going to cryogenically treated (deep frozen) rotors on my wife's Deville. We aren't hard on the brakes and we don't ride them. I've had this problem on the '98 Deville we have now and the '97 Concours we had a few years ago. Are you getting warped rotors on new rotors or after they are resurfaced? If they are new rotors, it may be your braking method, read this article, the term warped is a misnomer, the rotors do not actually warp. The fact that you are easy on your brakes may be a clue, if you are easy coming to a stop you may be building up more heat by allowing them to drag for a longer time. The 'warping' problem occurs when brake material transfers to the brake rotors causing a grabby spot. Its very important NOT to sit waiting at a stop light pressing the brakes hard while the brakes and rotors are hot, and using the parking brake immediately after a trip where the brakes are hot from braking can also cause brake material transfer. If you are getting this warping on old rotors that have been resurfaced, while they may be in the safe thickness range, they may be too thin and heat up quicker again causing your 'warping' (material transfer) due to excessive heat. Using cheap chinese rotors, IMHO falls into the category of "you get what you pay for". This is NOT an area you want to be cheap in, buy good brake components as Kger2 noted. It is also VERY important to torque your lug nuts to 100 ft pounds evenly, to encourage even heat transfer and to ensure even tension. PROPER TORQUE and tightening sequence (gradual tightening using cross pattern) is imperative these days... IF you don't have a torque wrench its time to buy one.... This is a very good article, http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml As Kger2 noted improper brake repairs where the sliders are not properly cleaned and lubricated is also a cause. You may be able to eliminate your brake shutter by re-bedding them (and effectively cleaning off the surface), do a search here on properly bedding the brakes, very important! Or maybe someone here can find a good link about bedding brakes or provide the info... I don't have the exact info current in my brain right now.... PLEASE: read the article! It's excellent and puts a lot of myths to rest and teaches proper braking techniques and practices.... Soapbox mode OFF.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 PS, I just re-read my response, and wanted to say that besides brake material transfer that creates a grabbiness/pulsing, there is also another cause. Rotor thickness variation were the pads ride up and down like they were on a roller coaster as the thickness of the rotor varies. In my experience this type of pulsing is more violent and it feels more acute. This type of pulsing also is not considered warping. I have been criticised for this statement because the manual states differently, BUT....I believe its good practice to clean up/resurface rotors when brakes are done, and if possible have a non-directional finish applied. I believe this thickness variation is accentuated when new pads are installed without cleaning up the rotor ("turning" it). The new pads quickly dig into the valleys and the pulsing gets worse. Personally I am stunned that the manual states that turning the rotors is not necessary. While that may be true during the warranty period (to keep costs down), I believe its a good practice when the new pads are installed. If you have your brakes done by a shop, you may get an argument from them, but request that it gets done, it adds about $10 per wheel. Don't let anyone infect your thinking by saying, hey you can buy new rotors for $19.99 each (from China) and you are spending $10 to resurface old rotors, new OEM or name brand rotors like Bendix, will not be $19.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabyllac Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Didn't you just have to sell your first born son for those wheels??? no i didnt have to sell my first born son for the wheelz the only reason for getting the wheel they were on sale and they were a deal so i jump on them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Personally I am stunned that the manual states that turning the rotors is not necessary. While that may be true during the warranty period (to keep costs down), I believe its a good practice when the new pads are installed. If you have your brakes done by a shop, you may get an argument from them, but request that it gets done, it adds about $15 per wheel. I have always understood (and practiced) that whenever you get new pads, you should at least turn the rotors to put a fresh finish on them. And vice versa -- don't turn the rotors without also installing new pads. It's like putting new clothes on the morning without taking a shower first. The new stuff will quickly get contaminated or worn wrong with the old grime underneath. Over time, the pads and rotors wear into each other...that is, grooves in the rotor (however microscopic) match exactly with ridges in the pads, and they come together and work fine whenever you apply the brakes. If you put something new one without the other (either pads or turned rotor), you've got mismatched parts that won't perform effectively...or at least not until they wear back together. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Personally I am stunned that the manual states that turning the rotors is not necessary. While that may be true during the warranty period (to keep costs down), I believe its a good practice when the new pads are installed. If you have your brakes done by a shop, you may get an argument from them, but request that it gets done, it adds about $15 per wheel. I have always understood (and practiced) that whenever you get new pads, you should at least turn the rotors to put a fresh finish on them. And vice versa -- don't turn the rotors without also installing new pads. It's like putting new clothes on the morning without taking a shower first. The new stuff will quickly get contaminated or worn wrong with the old grime underneath. Over time, the pads and rotors wear into each other...that is, grooves in the rotor (however microscopic) match exactly with ridges in the pads, and they come together and work fine whenever you apply the brakes. If you put something new one without the other (either pads or turned rotor), you've got mismatched parts that won't perform effectively...or at least not until they wear back together. THANK YOU! We are in agreement 100%, I like your analogy of the shower... I believe that a lot of people out there are not having their rotors turned by either their mechanics or by themselves and that is why they get this pulsing/shuttering. I have been told by more than one passenger that I brake late and I am hard on my brakes, personally I don't think so, but I rarely get pulsing. Once the rotors approach the limit, I replace mine. I will be getting drilled rotors soon however, can't wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etcxtc Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Thanks for all of the information guys! With the "warping" interval getting shorter and shorter (less than 15,000 miles between turnings), its time to update the brakes on the '98 Deville. 127,000 miles, original rotors, calipers, and only two sets of pads since the car was new. I'm always open to suggestions! I've been looking at Diversified Cryogenics Frozen Rotors. They are offered in slotted and drilled units. DC also offers several types of high performance pads. All I know is that the OEM setup doesn't cut it when it comes to a smooth, vibration free stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 All I know is that the OEM setup doesn't cut it when it comes to a smooth, vibration free stop. I beg to differ with you, if you are interested in attempting this once more, do this. By the way who does your brake work? First use only OEM pads, second, have the rotors resurfaced, third, go to the dealer and purchase the rubber caliper bushings front and back (this is NEVER done), fourth, clean and generously lube the sliders and rubber bushings with high-quality high-temp brake slider grease (I think OEM pads come with it). Torque all bolts to spec including the lug nuts.....Go through the proper bedding process (someone post the bedding process)... bedding is very important and also NEVER done! You won't have a problem..... I guarantee, just don't brake like a wus by dragging your brakes to a nice an easily stop, hard braking helps to keep the rotors clean... There is no reason that the OEM brakes won't perform properly, is has to be in the maintenance or the driving style/habits. On the other hand drilled rotors will dissapate heat faster and stay cooler, if the driving style contributes to the pulsating problem. (be advised that this is NOT criticism of your driving habits or style, however there is NO reason for you to continue to have problems, its either the way the brakes are being replaced (improperly) or the your driving style). I beat the crap out of the OEM setup, at 6'5" 230 pounds and I love cornering hard while braking on entrance ramps etc, so I am positive that the OEM setup is adequate. I will ramp this up soon by changing my stabilizer bushings to poly and changing to H rated tires on my Deville, at that point I will go to drilled rotors and ceramic pads only to improve braking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I do have to agree with Etcxtc to a point...our Seville needed new brakes every 20-30k miles previous to my owning it. Mom wasn't necessarily a fast driver either. Perhaps the new stuff I put on was just higher quality. The stuff the dealer put on just didn't seem to be adequate (it was serviced by the dealer before I got it). So either the dealer wasn't doing it right each time, or there was something else at play. 45k miles: machine front rotors 57k miles: replace front pads 70k miles: replace front pads & machine all 4 rotors 86k miles: brakes were pulsing again, and I put on Powerstop drilled rotors 146k miles: still doing just fine!! I personally think that anything you can do to a large FWD car to reduce the brake temperatures is worth it. Should Cadillac have installed drilled or slotted rotors at the factory...probably not. But I have found that the upgraded rotors has 100% eliminated the premature brake problems we had (it was always pedal shudder that sent her to the dealer). I can't believe it's been SIXTY THOUSAND MILES since I've even had to touch them. No warping, no pulsing, no excessive wear, no cracks, no nothing but smooth and reliable brake performance. The pads are Bendix HD severe service pads, and although by all accounts they've served very well, I think I'm going to try Raybestos or AC ceramic pads if these things ever wear out. My rears have lasted a LONG time too. The rear pads have not been replaced since it came into our family at 45k miles, and I doubt they were replaced before that either. Almost 150k miles on original rear brake pads. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I do have to agree with Etcxtc to a point...our Seville needed new brakes every 20-30k miles previous to my owning it. Mom wasn't necessarily a fast driver either. Perhaps the new stuff I put on was just higher quality. The stuff the dealer put on just didn't seem to be adequate (it was serviced by the dealer before I got it). So either the dealer wasn't doing it right each time, or there was something else at play. 45k miles: machine front rotors 57k miles: replace front pads 70k miles: replace front pads & machine all 4 rotors 86k miles: brakes were pulsing again, and I put on Powerstop drilled rotors 146k miles: still doing just fine!! I personally think that anything you can do to a large FWD car to reduce the brake temperatures is worth it. Should Cadillac have installed drilled or slotted rotors at the factory...probably not. But I have found that the upgraded rotors has 100% eliminated the premature brake problems we had (it was always pedal shudder that sent her to the dealer). I can't believe it's been SIXTY THOUSAND MILES since I've even had to touch them. No warping, no pulsing, no excessive wear, no cracks, no nothing but smooth and reliable brake performance. The pads are Bendix HD severe service pads, and although by all accounts they've served very well, I think I'm going to try Raybestos or AC ceramic pads if these things ever wear out. My rears have lasted a LONG time too. The rear pads have not been replaced since it came into our family at 45k miles, and I doubt they were replaced before that either. Almost 150k miles on original rear brake pads. That may well be your problem Jason, the rears should not last 101K miles, what it means to me is that 1) possibly the rear system needs to be bled, or 2) they are mal-adjusted. When the rear does not pick up its share of the work, the fronts go beyond their NORMAL share and overheat, and cause the excessive pad wear and pulsing you experienced before the drilled rotors. I maintain my rears as carefully as I maintain my fronts. While the fronts do a large percentage of the braking, the rears HAVE to contribute otherwise the fronts will overheat. I do not believe your rears are functioning otherwise, ..... you would have needed pads by now... 101K miles, no way I don't care how you drive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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