fredster Posted June 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Jason, The dealer said that the following were the reasons for the diagnosis: white smoke at tailpipe on cold starts running rough on cold start, then fine after that O2 sensors showing the presence of water/steam combustion CO2 in coolant I guess they sound right? Also: No, the car doesn't overheat. I watch the temp and it hangs between 197-212. I lose about a quart to a half gallon in two weeks. Curiuos though, about 3 weeks ago, I did some hard WOTs and my temp came up to 231!! Apparantly I was putting some exhaust gases into the coolant?? By the 10th WOT, it was hot enough for the oil light to blink a couple of times. Of course I called it a day on the WOTs. I was finished anyway. Anyhow, I will put pellets in today and see if I get any results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 According to a GM Engineer who used to frequent this site, the sealant supplement is a recommended part of normal coolant system maintenance. The sealant is an extra precaution to prevent seepage and prevent minor leaks. I would add sealant such as the appropriate coolant tablets or Bar's Leaks (Gold), which I believe is recommended for the Northstar. You will find out soon enough if you can get away with the routine sealant. About a quart to half gallon every couple of weeks doesn’t sound that bad—it certainly could be a lot worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I did mine myself. I could possibly help you out. Where are you located? That's what we need!! An official Caddyinfo.com Travelling Head Gasket repair and Turbo Service! Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 i would be curious to find out the value of this car when it is disposed of. is it sold outright, traded in, or something else? I talked to the owner of a 99 STS with bad headgaskets. he wants $5500 for it. he won't budge on the price and has been sitting on it for over a yr now. a 96 STS is worth maybe 6500 private party so subtract 3k as is and its worth maybe 3500 or so. The guy's had the '99 for sale with bad headgaskets for over a year, won't budge, and it doesn't occur to him that he's asking too much??? I paid $2400 for my '97 STS with blown head gaskets. I only bid once but another bidder wanted it too and he bid it up at the last two minutes of the auction. If it weren't for him, I would have won it for $1900. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeal1892 Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Well now thats funny mine went bad after I had chaged it and re added bars like I was told then a month later my head gaskets were bad ? So what could this mean ? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Jason, The dealer said that the following were the reasons for the diagnosis: white smoke at tailpipe on cold starts running rough on cold start, then fine after that O2 sensors showing the presence of water/steam combustion CO2 in coolant I guess they sound right? Also: No, the car doesn't overheat. I watch the temp and it hangs between 197-212. I lose about a quart to a half gallon in two weeks. Curiuos though, about 3 weeks ago, I did some hard WOTs and my temp came up to 231!! Apparantly I was putting some exhaust gases into the coolant?? By the 10th WOT, it was hot enough for the oil light to blink a couple of times. Of course I called it a day on the WOTs. I was finished anyway. Anyhow, I will put pellets in today and see if I get any results. I do not trust the "combustion gasses in the coolant" chemical testers. Before I would sell the car or replace the head gaskets, I would pressurize each cylinder with 120 psi shop air while each cylinder is at TDC with all four valves closed. If you see or hear any bubbles in the surge tank, the head hasket(s) are bad. That test is the easiest, least expensive, and most reliable test there is to check the head gaskets. The adapter is very wasy to make. O2 sensors indicate the presence of water or steam....that's a new one... sounds like BS to me...there will always be water vapor in the exhaust as it is a by-product of combustion... You may have a head gasket that is starting to give out or you may just have a leak somewhere - it seems like anytime a Northstar engine runs hot or loses a little coolant, all the dealers, etc., jump to the conclusion or try to convince the owner that it HAS to be the head gaskets... The fact that the dealer that diagnosed your car kept mentioning trade-in makes me suspicious... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Hold on, wait a minute....... I just remembered something. When the stealership put fresh coolant in when changing the radiator (about 6 months ago), I asked if they add a supplement to the coolant (specifically since I had read about it on this site). They said something like "oh, no, we never want to add anything to the coolant." Well, I just dismissed it as unnecessary and went on about my life. Could not adding supplement have actually caused this problem? I actually read somewhere on this forum that not adding the supplement will actually do damage to the aluminum? True or not? Is is possible the dealer could have caused this? Also, if this has caused the problem, I wonder if adding the pellets now would help? Also, if the dealer did add them, would it hurt to add them again? Basically, I want to assume the dealer didn't add them and put them in myself. Fred The absence of the cooling system suppliment will not cause a head gasket problem and will not damage the aluminum. The dealer did not cause the problem and adding the suppliment now will not help it. The suppliment is used to seal any porours aluminum castings and prevent niusence leaks. It is not meant to, nor will it prevent head gasket failure nor will it fix them. I agree with Kevin. Do a cylinder pressure test to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 As the others have said, it doesn't sound like a cylinder pressure test has been done. This is a mechanical test and is hard to misinterpret. The fact that you're using a gallon of coolant every month certainly indicates a leak. If it's not external, it's probably internal. A car with a failed head gasket usually does overheat, but anything is possible. Many of the symptoms CAN point to a head gasket seal breach, but only a cylinder pressure test will tell you for sure. Take it to a second party for the evaluation. Even another dealer. Bring them in cold to the situation...and just have them do the test. If one or more cylinders is down on pressure, especially two adjacent cylinders, then THAT is pretty conclusive. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredster Posted June 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2006 Well, guys, you are definately making me feel better. Maybe it's not what the almighty dealer has said!! I'll do the pressure test for sure. That's a definate tell tale test -- I should've known that. In the meantime, I added 6 pellets and will watch if my coolant loss begins to diminish. Like y'all said, if it's the head gasket then it won't help, but I'm only out $5 and can't do any harm. I'll let you all know what I find out. Thanks again for the encouragement and advice. Sometimes I slip away from reality and do things like: trusting the dealer, begin talking about trading in my Caddy, etc. In the meantime, I'm asking around for a trustworthy mechanic just in case. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 10, 2006 Report Share Posted June 10, 2006 When my head bolts had pulled on the 96, one of the Powertrain Guys said "yeah, throw some extra sealant in there. It may help or actually seal it, and if it doesn't, what have you got to lose?" He has that kind of a sense of humor though. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGman Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Had my 96 SLS timeserted by dealer 2 months ago....$3100. God, I wish they had just thrown a Chevy engine in this beautiful car, so it would be so much more affordable and reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Had my 96 SLS timeserted by dealer 2 months ago....$3100. God, I wish they had just thrown a Chevy engine in this beautiful car, so it would be so much more affordable and reliable. I looks like sealant is looking better and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 I need clarification: I thought if there is headgasket failure, loosing just 1 gal will leave white crud on the oil dipstick. can there be a headgasket failure on the N* with an external leak? was the oil ever checked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 Head gasket leaks can be external or internal. They may leak coolant to the ground, leak coolant into the oil, or the combuston chamber. The headgasket on my '97 was leaking all three modes due to a dealer installing the Timeserts too deep in the block. After I repaired it properly, all was fine. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatback2 Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 I am on my 3rd Caddy, the jerk who wrecked my 85 Coupe was my wife, my 95 Seville had the same fate as your car, head gasket @ 140,000 miles, found out after they put in the 2nd A/C compressor (they said it would not start because bearing was seized and then called and said "does your car smoke), Now I own a 98 Eldo (just paid $850 to get the A/C fixed, saga is documented you can search my posts) Anyway, repairs on all Caddy's are expensive. I have had a particularly bad time with A/C issues. However, I am picking my Caddy's up used. I purchased the 98 Eldo with 46,000 , cost me $10,089 and traded in the blown Seville ($1,900) in Nov 2004. I spoted it while looking at a $33,000 Chrysler M300. So the way i got it figured I saved $22,000. Is $850 expensive for A/C repair ? YES Am I ahead of the game ? I think so And Yes the two Northstars', I owned leaked a little oil (that keeps GUNK in business) Today i got a electrical issue. O well. Now for the big three, Mercedes, Lexus and Caddy Lexus SC 430 288 HP $66,050 / Caddy XLR 320 HP $77,295 / Mercedes CLS 500 302 HP $65,675 Mercedes also has some lease deals, I am working on the wife It's worrth a shot she can drive the Eldo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 I need clarification: I thought if there is headgasket failure, loosing just 1 gal will leave white crud on the oil dipstick. can there be a headgasket failure on the N* with an external leak? was the oil ever checked? I recall our old Guru saying that due to the design of the Northstar, a bad head gasket will not leak coolant into the oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 I need clarification: I thought if there is headgasket failure, loosing just 1 gal will leave white crud on the oil dipstick. can there be a headgasket failure on the N* with an external leak? was the oil ever checked? I recall our old Guru saying that due to the design of the Northstar, a bad head gasket will not leak coolant into the oil. I don't recall that but when I drained the oil for the first time in my STS that I bought with bad head gaskets, it looked like coffee with cream - definitely coolant in the oil. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeal1892 Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 How was the test results ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaemish Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 I'm in the same boat as you my friend. I picked up a 96 Eldorado a few years ago at auction for $5500 with 60k on it. I did everything I was supposed to do. I've kept it mint and a few weeks ago, at 97k the coolant started leaking through the threads. I toyed with the idea of paying $3500 to get it fix (along with fixing that oil leak problem) but it just didn't seem like a smart finincial move. I couldn't sell the car to someone local and let them have that bill dropped on their lap (and I don't want to see someone beating on my car). So yesterday I worked up the courage to go to a dealership and drive a 2002 Seville, and while I'll miss my Eldorado, this new car has 30k on it and I can make sure I am the one taking care of it before these problems come up. I too felt like jumping to Toyota or Nissan because I've heard good things. My dad put it to me like this "Will you be happy in a Corola? Sure you'll get better milage but why give up something you enjoy? Life's too short". So I bought the Seville and pick it up tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 My dad put it to me like this "Will you be happy in a Corola? Sure you'll get better milage but why give up something you enjoy? Life's too short". So I bought the Seville and pick it up tomorrow. This is a large part of why I drive a Cadillac instead of Brand_X. Also, the difference in monthly payments between a new CTS and a new Honda Accord EX is around the cost of one dinner out a month. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredster Posted June 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 For the curious... No coolant on the ground. I don't change my own oil, but I don't see any "milkiness" on the dipstick. Haven't had time to run a pressure check yet. Since adding the 6 pellets and topping off the coolant, I haven't had to add coolant. That's been about a week ago. Too early to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolnesss Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Uh, did anyone run a simple pressure leak test where they pressurize the system through the radiator cap? Could be a weepy water pump also, more likely at that mileage than a head gasket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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