mikeal1892 Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Another Well Done Job ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 I finally got this car to run correctly. I learned a lot from this job. And I want to admit that I made a few mistakes that I will never make again. I actually did the lower intake manifold gaskets twice and had the upper intake off three times to get at the fuel rail and injectors (we have it easy getting at the fuel rail on our NS's! ). I made a HUGE mistake reassembling the lower intake the first time. The first run torque spec was 62 in. lbs. ME.... being an old SOB with bad eyes, from the old days when measuring inch pounds was RARE (maybe the tranny pan gasket was inch pounds?), I read in. lbs. as, yep you guessed it, 62 ft. lbs.. DUH.... I could not understand why it was not tightening and then BAM the bolt snapped... Luckily I was able to remove it with a vice grip and no real damage was done.... I didnt think... SO I continued to reassemble the engine... and torqued the inner bolts to 115 in lbs and the outer bolts to 18 ft lbs as required. I started the car and was getting two codes a random misfire and a misfire on #6. Let me state that when I pulled the fuel rail the injectors were very dirty and I soaked them and cleaned them up with a detail brush, SECOND MISTAKE.... Manually cleaning injectors can damage them I found out! Well I talked to my friend at the dealer and with my tail between my legs told him that I over torqued the bolt to 62 ft lbs! He said, you probably crushed the gasket as they crush to seal, replace the gasket you probably have a vacuum leak! Well I did, and lo and behold, I got the SAME codes and rough idle! Doing my friend a favor was becoming a hassle! I noticed that the injectors were not seating properly. SO I worked hard to get them to seat, bending the two brackets and they sat nice... STILL had codes...a random misfire and a misfire on #6 After a little research I figured I messed up the injector cleaning it. I decided to replace the #6 fuel injector with one from my local scrap yard ($25), I also replace all injector o-rings. FINALLY the car started and ran PERFECT! It needs a set of plugs as 4 out of 6 plugs are missing their platinum pads, but its running great. My friend called me to tell me that the car has never run better. WHAT A PIA that job was, but I learned a LOT! I replaced: Intake manifold gaskets Many o-rings FPR Ignition wires Injector o-rings thermostat EGR gasket and clean EGR Took a long time, but I learned a heck of a lot... Hope my experience and mistakes helps others! Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Sounds like a triple success -- the car is running again, your friend is happy, and you are finished with it! Congrats. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Thanks Bruce, plus I learned a lot! Thanks Here are some good articles on Injector Cleaning: http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us120034.htm http://www.acdelcotechconnect.com/pdf/tsb/tsb_05D-105.pdf http://service.gm.com/forms/pdf/03-06-04-030A.pdf Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 It is a good feeling to be done with a project like that. You could do another one in much less time as you've been through the learning curve. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 It is a good feeling to be done with a project like that. You could do another one in much less time as you've been through the learning curve. So true Kevin, as a matter of fact, I need to do my wife's 2002 Monte Carlo 3400! You can bet your LAST dollar that I won't touch the injectors! NOR will I ever mistake inch pounds for foot pounds again.... Thanks Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 It seems like the intake gaskets are the weak point on the 3400 engine. Your '02 Monte Carlo intake is leaking? How many miles are on it? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 It seems like the intake gaskets are the weak point on the 3400 engine. Your '02 Monte Carlo intake is leaking? How many miles are on it? The 01 Grand Prix was a 3100 (65K miles) and the 02 Monte (40K miles) is a 3400. I am going to drain the oil on the Monte this weekend to see if there is any coolant in the oil to see how serious this is. I don't want to do any engine damage on the Monte Carlo. I drained the oil out of the Grand Prix into a clear container and it separated (oil and water). See this: http://www.autosafety.org/uploads/SB-10001282-8175.pdf Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 There was coolant in the oil on my '97 STS when I bought it due to the leaking head gasket - it looked like coffee with cream. It didn't separate though. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 There was coolant in the oil on my '97 STS when I bought it due to the leaking head gasket - it looked like coffee with cream. It didn't separate though. Hmmm, good to know. The valve covers were covered with an odd light brown gunk, the shade of coffee... I will take a digital photo of the separation for you to see the color and separation. Thanks, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 In my case, I drained the coolant and used the exhaust from a shop vac to blow out the old coolant. I then started the engine and let it run for a couple of minutes. I then changed the oil and used Rotella 10W-30 (I found 10W-30 Rotella at Menards of all places...). I then ran the engine for a few minutes to get fresh oil on all the bearings. I then changed the oil again and added a pint of GM EOS and ran the engine for a few more minutes. Once the engine work was done, I changed the oil again, used Rotella 10W-30 and added a pint of GM EOS. I then drove the car for 300 miles and changed the oil again...it's fine and I am not concerned about any engine damage. Now it's back to following the oil life monitor. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 I need to change the upper/lower intake manifold gaskets on my wife's 02 Monte Carlo. It runs hot, has a coolant smell and looses coolant. I changed the oil yesterday and there is NO evidence of coolant in the oil. However it appears that there is oil in the coolant, is that possible, to get OIL in the cooling system? Check these photos out Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6 Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 I need to change the upper/lower intake manifold gaskets on my wife's 02 Monte Carlo. It runs hot, has a coolant smell and looses coolant. I changed the oil yesterday and there is NO evidence of coolant in the oil. However it appears that there is oil in the coolant, is that possible, to get OIL in the cooling system? Check these photos out That does not look pretty at all!. Ive done the gasket on the 3100, its pretty straight forward, remove throttle housing, intake plenum, coil packs need to be pushed out of the way. A few alternator bolts removed... maybe power steering reservoir? (cant remember) and then remove the intake(Bit of wiring and stuff etc). Buy a new gasket, clean intake, gunk it, and bolt back together. Have not seen a plain 3400 (just the DOHC -grrrr) but by looking at engine pictures, it appears to be the same. It didn't take me more than 2-3 hours. Ad the replacement gasket kit was around $100 if I remember correctly. Good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 Mike, If the radiator has an oil cooler in the side tank, and that cooler line ruptures, it is possible to get oil in the coolant and vice versa. Oil pressure is higher than coolant pressure, so when the engine is running, oil can leak into the coolant. When you shut down, oil pressure falls to zero, but coolant pressure remains. Now the flow can reverse. Likewise with the trans cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6 Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 Mike, If the radiator has an oil cooler in the side tank, and that cooler line ruptures, it is possible to get oil in the coolant and vice versa. Oil pressure is higher than coolant pressure, so when the engine is running, oil can leak into the coolant. When you shut down, oil pressure falls to zero, but coolant pressure remains. Now the flow can reverse. Likewise with the trans cooler. Ya after my post I was thinking maybe the radiator failed(if its cooling is in the side of the rad)? Mixing Transmission oil and antifreeze (i've never seen it happen though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 I think it is a rare situation, though possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 I will have to look when its light out to see if there is an oil cooler, something tells me no. I am not loosing a serious amount of oil at all. But this is a good thought. I have also done this job on a 3100, it was not bad but not easy either. I think I will need to flush the cooling system till it runs clear. In the old days when everything was cast iron, I used to use a flush and put a hose in the top of the radiator and let it run to keep the radiator full while it drained out the bottom, when it ran clear I stopped. Is there a danger of cracking with this method today with aluminum heads on this engine? How would you flush this engine to get the oil out? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 I have used that method as well Mike, but in hind sight, I think it is risky running cold water through a hot engine. Maybe just change the coolant 2 or 3 times. I'm not so sure that a little residual oil would hurt anything anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Thanks Larry Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIMDTS Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Mike Good Job You fixed the car you learn by doing Not by watching. That's what I tell my son. I don't care to work on cars as much as I used to. When I was younger I was always under the hood or doing some BS to my cars. Now all I want to do is drive them & I do what I have to in order to keep them running. When I was younger I fixed plenty of family & friends cars. I sure did learn from that I never charged them to fix the car It was always you owe me the time I spent on your car. One thing I learned is get your favor first. When the time would come to call in my favor OH I'm busy can you make it next week etc etc. In return I wanted help with Stuff like painting rooms in my house or landscpae work Still to this day I have one cousin who screwed me big time with stuff like that. I seen him not to long ago He had the guts to ask me to look at his car My response was you got to be out of your F'n mind. He wanted to drive his hot rod during the dream cruise it had an electrical problem This goes back almost 25 yrs ago I worked on his car for 2 days SAT & SUN free then when I needed help it was screw you Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonie77 Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 I didn't read all the posts so this might have been mentioned... Check the library for Alldata online. The Phoenix library has it. I know a lot of the larger ones do. It is 100x better than Haynes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 I didn't read all the posts so this might have been mentioned... Check the library for Alldata online. The Phoenix library has it. I know a lot of the larger ones do. It is 100x better than Haynes. Thanks zonie! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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