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OT Pontiac 3100/3400


BodybyFisher

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The 3100/3400 I understand is prone to its lower intake manifold gasket leaking coolant. I am considering changing one for a friend. Has anyone ever done this job and how difficult is it? The shops want $650 to $800 for the job... Thanks, sorry for the OT, Mike

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Don't like to hear that Mile as my youngest daughter has one or the other in a Grand Am. I did an upper on a 3800 series II. It was pretty straight forward. Took me the better part of a day, but I am slow and meticulous, plus I had to go to the dealer for a few bolts and I had to take time out to make a new (modified) "stove pipe". Not sure if the 3100/3400 has those (don't think so).

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The 3100/3400 I understand is prone to its lower intake manifold gasket leaking coolant. I am considering changing one for a friend. Has anyone ever done this job and how difficult is it? The shops want $650 to $800 for the job... Thanks, sorry for the OT, Mike

Can't help you with the repair, but it certainly is prolific, even more so than the upper gasket on the SeriesII 3800 engines (my Lesabre went at 60,000 miles).

This past week, a class action lawsuit was launched in Canada against GM for the 3.1/3.4 engines, citing tsb's going back several years indicating GM knew about the problem.

I know you hate frivolous litigation, but here's the link. http://www.autoblog.com/2006/04/15/gm-to-h...ase-by-case-ba/

Here's another link, citing a figure of $1.2 billion. http://www.autoblog.com/2006/04/26/gm-slap...nada-claims-co/

Tough times for The General.

1989 FWD Fleetwood, Silver

1995 STS Crimson Pearl on Black leather

1997 STS Diamond White

1999 STS Crimson Pearl

2001 STS Silver

2003 STS, Crimson Pearl

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Thanks Guys, I did some research. Our friend IAN (shiden_Kai) posted here also:

http://www.autoforumz.com/ftopic-33680-0.html

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/...874#post3755874

I am looking for someone that has done this job, it looks like the push rods must be removed. I will go to the library tomorrow and see if they have a Haynes manual...

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How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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After reading that first link I feel a little better. Sounds like they fixed in it '01 and she has an '04. I don't want to pull any more manifolds. I'm getting too old for this.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Back to this OT thread. I bought the intake manifold gasket set cost $80.. It included three o-rings two for water and one for the distributor drive. One of the mechanics was nice enough to print out the 16 page installation instructions from the GM Tech Publication (I need to drop off some sort of a THANK YOU to him, any suggestions?)...

In the instructions it states to replace the intake bolts... The parts department gave me the intake gaskets and o ringes but no bolts. My question is, would you guys replace the bolts? Four of the bolts are torqued to 110 ft lbs.... Could these bolts have a stretch factor like the NS head bolts and that is why they say to replace them?

Could these bolts be replaced due to the extreme problems that GM is having with the 3100/3400 intake manifold gaskets leaking coolant?

I guess my question is, would you replace the bolts?

(I think I know the answer already but today is SUNDAY and I planned to do this job today and I can't get the new bolts)

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I would use new bolts. Maybe more for the possibilty(?) they are coated with sealer.

Jim

Drive your car.

Use your cell phone.

CHOOSE ONE !

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Thanks Jim, that is what I thought, I will get the bolts tomorrow. By the way, a big tip by the GM tech was to keep the push rods in order (I typically do that anyway) there are different lengths installed. I will do this job in the morning. I need to buy a BEAM torque wrench that goes up to 200 ft lbs, mine only goes to 100... more tools, yea....

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

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I probably would not replace the bolt unless I was given a good reason to do so. They can't be torqued very high and you can always put some locTite on the threads. I just can't imagine why they would need to be replaced.

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(I need to drop off some sort of a THANK YOU to him, any suggestions?)...

ICE COLD BEER. Drop it off about 10 min. before quiting time.

I probably dont have to remind you that it should be a DOMESTIC brand. :lol:

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Maybe when I get them out, I will understand better. Maybe its because they are going into aluminum and there is a nickle plating similar to plugs? I am going first thing to the caddy dealer to see if they have the bolts, they had the Pontiac intake manifold set. If not I am off to a Pontiac dealer. I would rather not take a chance. My impression is that this job should be pretty easy, even though the service manager said its a 6 hour job.. We'll see. I plan on flying through this job.. I can see the leak at the mating place.. I have been getting more comforable with my impact wrench, and disassembly is quick. It calls for a GM spec RTV, do you know if are there different grades? I have RTV, but I am not sure if its to GM spec. They want a dab of RTV in each corner..

Tuesday I am dropping the tranny pan on my Deville and resealing it with a new pan gasket. Do I recall that someone said to put a little RTV on the bolts to seal the threads and heads?

Thanks Ranger.

(I need to drop off some sort of a THANK YOU to him, any suggestions?)...

ICE COLD BEER. Drop it off about 10 min. before quiting time.

I probably dont have to remind you that it should be a DOMESTIC brand. :lol:

Good suggestion Bill I like that. I think he has a German accent however, I may have to go with Heinekin or Becks!

While we are on the topic of beer, if you get a chance have a pint of Spaten Mai Bock! Be prepared to take a TAXI home however its potent...

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Well Mike, if the dealer said 6 hr. job, I'd plan 12. I'm not as fast as those guys who do this every day.

I am sure there probably are different RTV grades. Last time I used it was on a 4100. Same thing, a dab at each corner and I used a red RTV. It would stand up to gas, oil & coolant I believe.

I did not use any RTV on my trans pan bolts when I did the fluid change on my '97. I think you may be thinking about the "fix" for the oil pan leak.

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Well Mike, if the dealer said 6 hr. job, I'd plan 12. I'm not as fast as those guys who do this every day.

I am sure there probably are different RTV grades. Last time I used it was on a 4100. Same thing, a dab at each corner and I used a red RTV. It would stand up to gas, oil & coolant I believe.

I did not use any RTV on my trans pan bolts when I did the fluid change on my '97. I think you may be thinking about the "fix" for the oil pan leak.

You mean, I'm not as fast as those guys who do this every day....:lol: True, I am a methodical SOB also, so it may be more than 12 hours... :lol: I have to keep the push rods in order, so tonight I cut two 2x4's 12 inches in length, and drilled 6 holes in each and marketed them front bank and rear bank with front and back marked on them so I get the push rods back in the right order... :blink: I am told putting them in the wrong order would result in bent valves...

I have to look at my RTV now, mine is BLUE....

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I know what you mean Mike. When I did the intake manifold on my wifes '96 Bonneville (3800), it took me 9 hrs. In my defense, I took time out to eat, turn a modified "stovepipe" on my lathe and run to the dealer to pick up some bolts I had to destroy removing the TB. While there and talking to the service writer, he said he had just dont the job on his grandfathers car. When I asked him how long it took, he said 1 1/2 hrs. Boy, did I feel like an ameture.

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Having never done this job before its going slow. Interesting engine. I just got the fuel rail off, its under the upper intake manifold. I have the valve covers off, the fuel rail, alternator, heater pipe, upper intake, wiring harnesses, coil packs.

Questions:

1) the valve covers have rubber seals. I plan to use them over, just clean them up? Do I use any sealer?

2) the ends of the injectors are really dirty, they look like carbon is on them, I didnt look closely yet. I will clean them up. Should I replace the injector orings while I am there?

2a) I want to lube the fuel rail o-rings when I put it back, silicone grease is bad for the O2 sensors, is that correct? What can I lube the injector o-rings with that is safe?

3) I had the presence of fuel at the FPR vacuum hose but there were no ride complaints. I think its necessary to replace the FPR...

I will post some photos of this cute little engine...LOL... I can see EXACTLY where the intake manifolds are leaking already...

One of the valve covers appears to have milky oil on it, so water may have gotten in the oil.... OUCH... Will change oil and possibly flush the engine with MMO...

Any suggestions or tips gladly accepted :lol:

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Are the valve cover seals the silicone bead type? If so, they are reusable as long as they don't pop out of the groove. Oil makes them swell and once they pop out of the groove they will be too big. Just carefully wipe them off and you can reuse them - don't use any sealer on them.

I probably wouldn't bother replacing the injector o-rings - they should be fine to reuse. You can use lithium grease or pertoleum jelly to lube them for ease of assembly.

If there was fuel dripping out of the vacuum line, replace the FPR.

Does the engine oil look milky or is it just residue on the valve cover? If it is just on the valve cover, wipe it out and change the engine oil and filter when the repair is complete. Drive the car for 150-200 miles and then change the engine oil again. That should clean out any residual coolant in the engine.

If the oil looks like coffee with cream, then change the oil, run it for a few minutes and then change the oil again. Repeat until the oil on the dipstick is reasonably clean and then drive it for 150-200 miles and then change the oil and filter again.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Thanks guys, will update, Mike

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How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

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I told the guys at the local shop that I beat the Honda repair time estimate for changing head gasket on my sons Civic.

I told them the book calls for appx. 5 and I did it in 4 .

They looked at me and said: "Thats hours Bill, not days."

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I told the guys at the local shop that I beat the Honda repair time estimate for changing head gasket on my sons Civic.

I told them the book calls for appx. 5 and I did it in 4 .

They looked at me and said: "Thats hours Bill, not days."

LOL! That reminds me of the joke about the two slackers who were so proud that it only took them 3 weeks to assemble a puzzle when on the side said, 2 to 4 years! :lol:

I am not trying to set speed records here, I have already found a bad FPR, a dirty TB, dirty injectors and ignition wires that appear to be arching badly. When I finally get done, I am sure that it will perform much better. I am hoping to get done tomorrow, that is within reach.

I learned one of those embarrising lessons today.. I have to remove the power steering pump to get at two bolts. I could see the bolts to remove the pump behind the pulley... After a few choice curse words thinking that I had to remove the pulley to get at the bolts I quit for the day and drove to the Caddy/Pontiac dealer to see how the tech liked the 12 pack of Coors Lite I dropped off for him yesterday... I mentioned the power steering pump and how I was pissed that I had to take off he pulley, and he said... WHAT? There are holes in the pulley that allow you to put your socket through the pulley! INSERT BIG DUH, HERE..... :lol: Its amazing how sometimes you just don't see the obvious! Its exactly the same concept as the hub bearing where you put your socket through the hole in the flange, and I only did that last week! :lol:

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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LOL! That reminds me of the joke about the two slackers who were so proud that it only took them 3 weeks to assemble a puzzle when on the side said, 2 to 4 years! :lol:

Hal Roach?

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There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

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I just looked him up Warren, that could be!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Roach

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Here is a photo of the engine with the upper intake off. The two circles show were oil and water is leaking.

post-2998-1147216740.jpg

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Photo 1 is with the upper and lower intake off with the gasket mating surfaces cleaned up. The engine was quite dirty inside even though I was told that the oil is changed every 3000 miles. Water was definately getting into the oil, so maybe that is the reason for the gunky oil.

Photo 2 is another view of the engine with upper and lower intake off.. Notice the staggered valves. The push rods are different lengths and must be put back in in the same order or you will bend valves.

Photo 3 is the engine reassembled after completing the intake manifold gasket replacement. Big job, but I learned a lot. I did not change the oil yet or fill it with coolant, I want the RTV to dry good... Very interesting job, hopefully I have solved the internal coolant leak.

Notice how GM handled the front bank crossover pipe on this car in photo 2

post-2998-1147409729.jpg

post-2998-1147409927.jpg

post-2998-1147410227.jpg

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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