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'97 STS Engine Removal & Repair


KHE

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I didn't make much progress last night - I had to fabricate a flywheel lock tool which took awhile. It looks just like the Kent-Moore tool in the service manual although the price was a lot better...

I began removing parts per the shop manual and got as far as the radiator removal. When possible, I am inserting the fasteners back into the holes so I will not lose them. When it's not possible, I place them in ziplock bags with descriptive notes. That process has worked very well for me over the years and prevents leftover parts at the end of the project.

This evening, I want to get as far as I can - there are 65 steps in the engine removal process - I think I am at #20. My plan is to remove the hood and the engine Wednesday evening, open it up Thursday evening and order parts Friday. While I am waiting for the parts, I'll clean the cam covers and other pieces that require cleaning. I'll also evaluate the Timeserts that are in the block. The dealer claims that the block was Timeserted yet 9 of the 10 bolts on the rear head were loose when I checked them Sunday...I may need to install Big-Serts but won't know for sure until I get it apart. I am going to attempt to retorque the head bolts when the engine is out to verify if the inserts are holding.

The manual does not say to support the trans. when the engine is removed - I know there is at least one mount for the trans. will that be enough to hold it while the engine is out? I hope so - maybe others who have pulled just the engine can advise.

I'm taking pictures as this progresses. I'll probably post them after the project is completed. I hope to be finished with the project by April 22nd (yes, this year! :P )

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I didn't make much progress last night - I had to fabricate a flywheel lock tool which took awhile. It looks just like the Kent-Moore tool in the service manual although the price was a lot better...

I began removing parts per the shop manual and got as far as the radiator removal. When possible, I am inserting the fasteners back into the holes so I will not lose them. When it's not possible, I place them in ziplock bags with descriptive notes. That process has worked very well for me over the years and prevents leftover parts at the end of the project.

This evening, I want to get as far as I can - there are 65 steps in the engine removal process - I think I am at #20. My plan is to remove the hood and the engine Wednesday evening, open it up Thursday evening and order parts Friday. While I am waiting for the parts, I'll clean the cam covers and other pieces that require cleaning. I'll also evaluate the Timeserts that are in the block. The dealer claims that the block was Timeserted yet 9 of the 10 bolts on the rear head were loose when I checked them Sunday...I may need to install Big-Serts but won't know for sure until I get it apart. I am going to attempt to retorque the head bolts when the engine is out to verify if the inserts are holding.

The manual does not say to support the trans. when the engine is removed - I know there is at least one mount for the trans. will that be enough to hold it while the engine is out? I hope so - maybe others who have pulled just the engine can advise.

I'm taking pictures as this progresses. I'll probably post them after the project is completed. I hope to be finished with the project by April 22nd (yes, this year! :P )

Kevin,

My 94 didn't require an additional support for the tranny when I pulled my engine from the top. The only real problem that I had when following the manual's steps was that there were wiring harnesses that were threaded over and through the coolant pipes that run between the engine and the fire wall. they wer not mentioned in the manual. I had unhooked them, but they still held on when I started lifting the engine.

I ALMOST had a problem. :o

Also, you may want to look at the cover that goes over the HVAC unit while the engine is out. As it can only be changed with the engine out. Mine was as brittle as glass.

Good Luck,

Britt

Britt
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I didn't make much progress last night - I had to fabricate a flywheel lock tool which took awhile. It looks just like the Kent-Moore tool in the service manual although the price was a lot better...

I began removing parts per the shop manual and got as far as the radiator removal. When possible, I am inserting the fasteners back into the holes so I will not lose them. When it's not possible, I place them in ziplock bags with descriptive notes. That process has worked very well for me over the years and prevents leftover parts at the end of the project.

This evening, I want to get as far as I can - there are 65 steps in the engine removal process - I think I am at #20. My plan is to remove the hood and the engine Wednesday evening, open it up Thursday evening and order parts Friday. While I am waiting for the parts, I'll clean the cam covers and other pieces that require cleaning. I'll also evaluate the Timeserts that are in the block. The dealer claims that the block was Timeserted yet 9 of the 10 bolts on the rear head were loose when I checked them Sunday...I may need to install Big-Serts but won't know for sure until I get it apart. I am going to attempt to retorque the head bolts when the engine is out to verify if the inserts are holding.

The manual does not say to support the trans. when the engine is removed - I know there is at least one mount for the trans. will that be enough to hold it while the engine is out? I hope so - maybe others who have pulled just the engine can advise.

I'm taking pictures as this progresses. I'll probably post them after the project is completed. I hope to be finished with the project by April 22nd (yes, this year! :P )

Kevin,

My 94 didn't require an additional support for the tranny when I pulled my engine from the top. The only real problem that I had when following the manual's steps was that there were wiring harnesses that were threaded over and through the coolant pipes that run between the engine and the fire wall. they wer not mentioned in the manual. I had unhooked them, but they still held on when I started lifting the engine.

I ALMOST had a problem. :o

Also, you may want to look at the cover that goes over the HVAC unit while the engine is out. As it can only be changed with the engine out. Mine was as brittle as glass.

Good Luck,

Britt

Thanks for the info. I plan on replacing the HVAC cover. There are pieces of it missing and when I removed the rear cam cover to check the headbolts, more pieces broke out when I bumped it with a wrench.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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KHE,

Try to keep the trans mount so it carries the load when the engine is put down. You don't want to bang the drive axle housing or make it carry the load.

Keep weight off the oil pan by using supports at the engine & trans mount locations. I used 4 X 4 blocks with 2X4 "shims" - worked great.

Watch the master cylinder and the TC/ABS module when pulling the engine out. If you're not using a load leveler, the slight rotation to clear the master cylinder can cause the tranny to tag the ABS module. About every 4 - 6 inches of lift, check for things that might be caught - including any wire harness areas that may have already been disconnected. A little "bumping" of the engine back and forth to/from the firewall at the driver's side helps wiggle it out.

Keep the passenger side of the engine close to the fender as the engine is lifted, but watch out for the AC drier.

Keep us posted. Send some pics of the removal if you have a minute!

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jhall,

I am removing the engine only - the trans. is going to stay in the car. That is the "alternate" method described in the service manual. Did you remove the engine and trans at the same time through the top?

I should be far enough along by the end of tomorrow evening that I can pull the engine Thursday evening. I will be using an engine leveler but I am concerned at the tight fit of everything. The manual doesn't state to remove the power steering pump but it looks like it should in order to provide clearance. I currently have the car up on ramps but I think I need to have the front tires on the garage floor so the engine hoist has enough lift.

The torque converter to flexplate bolts were really in there tight - I thought I was going to have a stroke removing the bolts from the torque converter... :blink: I got them out though with a long breaker bar.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Make sure your get all the brackets and braces off at the back/bottom of the motor, some a real pita to get at and off. The other little joy is the bolts where the manifolds connect to the converter. Make sure there are no small children around and you have the garage door closed. You will need a couple of extentions and some universal joint type sockets, they are in there at a weird angle... talking to them helps :blink: . Just be patient, if you have found you are at your wits end call it a night and go back at it again the next day, sometimes things seem to get clearer after you walk away from them for the night.

Some of us have been there and it can be done.

Dennis
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Kevin,

I did remove the power steering pump. It is really easy. Remove the pressure and return lines and the single bolt that holds it to the block. It lifts right out! Probably the easiest part of the whole operation.

I also removed the engine only. While it was out, I replaced the torque convertor and the torque convertor/pump seal. (I had torque convertor issues). If you pull the torque, be sure to replace the TCC seal on the trans input shaft. It is a small "O" ring. Without it you will have no TCC lockup. If you don't plan to pull the torque, safety wire it to the trans so it won't slip off and fall on the floor. I would safety it anyway to keep it in place while I was removing or installing the engine.

Good Luck,

Britt

Britt
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Thanks for all the suggestions. It is really tight in that engine compartment! Hopefully the removal will go smoothly - I am concerned that I missed disconnecting a wire somewhere....I'll lift it 1" at a time and inspect everything until it is clear. The bad part is that I'll need to lower the car off the ramps to pull the engine and that will make it harder to inspect the underside for anything left connected. I am following the service manual steps to the letter with the exception of discharging the A/C and removing the accumulator to evaporator pipe.

It was amazingly quick and easy to remove the intake manifold - I knew it wasn't that bad of a job now I know for sure and have a response for anyone who says, "Northstar engine? you'd better hope the starter never goes bad as it's under the intake and a huge job to replace."

It looks like Thursday night will be the "removal" night as it will probably take me all of this evening to prepare for the removal.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Kevin,

Sorry - overlooked the part about pulling just the engine, but yes - I did pull the engine and transmission through the top as one asssembly.

I can appreciate the 'fun" getting the torque converter / flywheel bolts out.

BTW - If you lift the engine just a bit and push it toward the passenger side, the bell housing will separate and allow just enough clearance to lift the engine out. You might need to "pursuade" it to separate since the alignment dowels on the engine / trans interface will hold on a little.

I believe Navion also gave me the same advice on the o-ring replacement. Since I removed the torque converter, I also went ahead and replaced the main seal. Not sure how many miles you've got, but it's worth the few bucks for the security since the seal lip will be disturbed on removal of the torque converter.

It also might be a good idea to go ahead and change the trans filter in the side cover while you've got the engine out.

With regard to the A/C compressor, wire it into place at the front of the car so it does not flop around and get in the way.

Also, I'd recommend placing a couple of pieces of cardboard or a 1/4" plywood cover over the condensor coil to prevent damage to you (sharp!) and the coil as you work.

Keep us updated on your progress! ;)

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I've been working on it all week. Last night, I got the alternator out and the A/C compressor moved out of the way. There are a lot of wire harnesses and pipes everywhere and I am really concerned about missing one...

Most everything is out of the way although there are some of the engine to transmission brackets that need to be removed. I think I am going to pull the heads with the engine in place. With most of the accessories out of the way, there seems to be a lot more room to work. If not, I can always bolt the heads back up and pull the engine. After this evening, I'll either have it stripped to the block or I'll plan on pulling the engine tomorrow night. :lol:

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Kevin,

Sounds like you're in the short rows. In my view, I'd pull the engine out and put it on a stand to work on it - especially if any big-serts need to go into the rear head. You might need easier access to these bolt holes for this work.......and heaven forbid that you might have to drill out an existing Timesert for any reason.

Of course, it's your time and money. Just a thought.....

Keep in mind that pulling the engine will allow you to examine the rest of the engine / trans stuff. How often do you get (want) to pull these out to check them?

Just look at the engine and remove any connectors you see. Everything is matched pretty much by connector shape although I used tags on mine to speed reassembly.

Don't forget the O2 sensor wires at the cat converter as well as the speed sensor on the tranny axle housing at the passenger side (near the back engine mount bracket).

Cut the heater hoses (on the passenger side) and replace them. They are easier to remove from the clamps once the engine is out of the car.

Hope it goes OK no matter what route you choose. Keep us updated!

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I made some decent progress tonight. I removed the balancer, timing cover and the rear cam cover. I couldn't remove the front cam cover as I need to buy a puller to remove the water pump pulley as my small 3-jaw puller wouldn't work. Hopefully NAPA has a tool similar to the J-38825 tool - if not, I'll just buy a new pulley as that would be much cheaper than the Kent-Moore tool.

7 of 10 head bolts on the rear head were stripped - they wouldn't torque down to the initial 22 ft-lbs. I am betting there are no timeserts in the block despite what the dealer told me.

I need to remove the water crossover on the driver's side of the engine - The lower bolts will be a PITA as the wire harness is in the way and has zero slack. Either Friday night or Saturday morning, I will have it completely disassembled and a parts list. The shop manual does not say if the water crossover gaskets are reusable - the cam cover gaskets and timing cover gaskets are reusable though if they are not damaged.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Sounds like you are having fun. I can't wait to find out what you discover when you take the head off...

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Kevin,

The power steeing pulley puller will also fit the water pump pulley. I bought mine from a local parts store for a few bucks.

You'll need a better grasp and a more even grip that a jaw puller can provide. It's on there really tight.

You can move the harness off the back of the transmission. It is very stiff, but it can be moved. Just make sure you disconnect any items that might pull tight.

Considering the difficulty of getting back to the gaskets on the water pump cross-over manifold, you will probably want to replace the gaskets. Also, don't forget abou the "hidden" bolt bear the water pump area. It's hard to see, so check the manual to make sure you've got them all out!

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I would also suggest replacing the water pump cross-over gaskets plus the short sections of silicon hoses that connect to the rear coolant tubes, of which I replaced as well for piece of mind.

Kevin when you get the heads off you will have a better eye shot of seeing all the brackets at the back of the motor that tie it to the trans to get the short block out of the car. While many have timeserted the block in the car with sucess

I aggree with jhall and you should really get it out and on a stand. With it on the stand it will be much easier to work on. You will really be kicking yourself when you find that you have a case leak after you are done. With it on the stand you will be able to repair and replace everything that can be a potiential problem down the road.

Dennis
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Dennis,

I was going to reseal the case half but it has already been done at some point as the anerobic sealant is visible at the case half and the underside of the engine is spotless.

If the engine has not been Timeserted (which I suspect is the case) how much do you want for the Timesert kit? You can send me a PM on that if you want.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Kevin,

I realize that there is some distance between you, but if the dealer told you that it WAS Timeserted, and you find out that it wasn't, would there be some recoarse? Maybe the guy you bought it from would have to get involved. The bad part is I suspect they would demand to inspect it.

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Ranger,

I believe what you are referring to is FRAUD committed by a cadillac dealership. It will be interesting to see what Kevin comes up with.

Fraud by a Cadillac dealership???? This has to be a 1st.... :lol::lol::lol:

A.J.

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Ranger,

I believe what you are referring to is FRAUD committed by a cadillac dealership. It will be interesting to see what Kevin comes up with.

Fraud by a Cadillac dealership???? This has to be a 1st.... :lol::lol::lol:

That sucks. The Caddy Dealship tired to take to good doctors wife a ride on my car in more ways than one!!

Michael-

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I really hope not.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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