confusion Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 i put a new egr valve on my '92 deville. loosed all the fuel rails and sprayed some carb cleaner in the holes where the injectors go into the engine. also spayed some carb cleaner into the throttle body. put it back together and it won't start. it starts to crank and then just stops. also the new egr valve doesn't line up with the hose that hooks to the top of it. now it is disconnected untill i can get a different size hose. please help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadiKing Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 i put a new egr valve on my '92 deville. loosed all the fuel rails and sprayed some carb cleaner in the holes where the injectors go into the engine. also spayed some carb cleaner into the throttle body. put it back together and it won't start. it starts to crank and then just stops. also the new egr valve doesn't line up with the hose that hooks to the top of it. now it is disconnected untill i can get a different size hose. please help I would pull the plugs before I would do ANYTHING ELSE! It sounds to me like you may have hydro-locked the engine by feeding it while it was not running! You state you have added carb cleaner into the injector holes in the manifold and the throttle body. All that liquid has to go somewhere! Be careful what you do next, it could cause engine damage! Pull the plugs and spin the motor to clear the manifold and cylinders of liquid! Someone with more knowledge will soon chime in, right guys??? Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 You might have soaked the cylinders so badly that the plugs are wet with solvent/fuel. You might need to pull each plug to dry them off or use some type of drier like an ether assuming there are no other problems. Make sure the fuel rail is seated and the connectors are secure. Aftermarket EGRs are not recommended as the EGR is carefully calibrated for the engine. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 i put a new egr valve on my '92 deville. loosed all the fuel rails and sprayed some carb cleaner in the holes where the injectors go into the engine. also spayed some carb cleaner into the throttle body. put it back together and it won't start. it starts to crank and then just stops. also the new egr valve doesn't line up with the hose that hooks to the top of it. now it is disconnected untill i can get a different size hose. please help I would pull the plugs before I would do ANYTHING ELSE! It sounds to me like you may have hydro-locked the engine by feeding it while it was not running! You state you have added carb cleaner into the injector holes in the manifold and the throttle body. All that liquid has to go somewhere! Be careful what you do next, it could cause engine damage! Pull the plugs and spin the motor to clear the manifold and cylinders of liquid! Someone with more knowledge will soon chime in, right guys??? Good luck jim, thanks. i'll do that right now. how long do i have to turn the engine over to clear the fluid? thanks, joe You might have soaked the cylinders so badly that the plugs are wet with solvent/fuel. You might need to pull each plug to dry them off or use some type of drier like an ether assuming there are no other problems. Make sure the fuel rail is seated and the connectors are secure. Aftermarket EGRs are not recommended as the EGR is carefully calibrated for the engine. thanks for the help. do i spray ether onto the plugs after i pull them or into the holes? can i dry the plugs(if they are wet) with a tourch? joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 If you have soaked the plugs badly, you might need to pull the plugs and spin the engine to blow some out and to evaporate some. Dry the plugs off. I am not sure how the ether would be used, I know its drying BUT it can alos be dangerous. Lets see what others here have to say about drying out your engine. Check for the obvious, pull a plug and see if its wet, check for spark. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 What make, part number is your new EGR valve? The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 jim, thanks. i'll do that right now. how long do i have to turn the engine over to clear the fluid? thanks, joe Mack, just remove all the plugs and crank the engine for a few seconds. 5 at the most. This just allows any excess liquid to escape through the spark plug holes. BodyByFisher had good advice to clean/dry the spark plugs before reinstalling. Just let them air dry and clean them with a small metal bristle brush if available. If not, a good air drying should be good enough for them to run again. The idea is just to make sure they're not soaked with any liquid, or they won't fire properly. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 What make, part number is your new EGR valve? sorenson 779-2533. thanks for the help guys. so far, i've removed the plugs and 6 are fouled. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 update: i installed the plugs and the car starts. now it revs way too high in park and made a clunking sound and jerked back a little. like it was trying to go into reverse. also, white smoke is coming out of the exhaust. i hooked a vaccum hose to the egr. the only thing i know for sure that's broken is the thin gasket that goes on top of the throttle body. help if you can. thanks, joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 You are getting the same problem I got with my 91, that clunk back you are getting and clanging or clunking is the SPRAG in your transmission. DONT let it rev high in neutral. When that SPRAG lets go you will need a tranny rebuild. Disconnect the battery and see if it does a re-learn. If you cleaned the EGR, and EGR tubes and TB it needs to do a relearn. Make sure you have ALL vacuum hoses connected, plug the EGR hose if you don't have it connected. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 You are getting the same problem I got with my 91, that clunk back you are getting and clanging or clunking is the SPRAG in your transmission. DONT let it rev high in neutral. Disconnect the battery and see if it does a re-learn. Make sure you have ALL vacuum hoses connected, plug the EGR hose if you don't have it connected. thanks, i'll go do that now. do i need to touch the terminal ends together to drain the computer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 No just disconnecting it for a minute will be fine, Mike By the way, that SPRAG is a common problem in that transmission. When I took it to my tranny shop, he immediately knew what it was. That was after bbobynski told ME what it was! The Sprag! It is exposed when you rev the engine to about 1500 to 1800 in neutral, in drive you never hear it, ill bet only in neutral. When the noise happens it seems to move the car backward, right? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 No just disconnecting it for a minute will be fine, Mike By the way, that SPRAG is a common problem in that transmission. When I took it to my tranny shop, he immediately knew what it was. That was after bbobynski told ME what it was! The Sprag! It is exposed when you rev the engine to about 1500 to 1800 in neutral, in drive you never hear it, ill bet only in neutral. When the noise happens it seems to move the car backward, right? that's exactly right. this is the first time i've encountered it. 74,600 miles on the car. joe i disconnected the battery, but it's still doing the same thing. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Its a scary noise when it happens it sounds bad enough to damage the tranny case. If you plan on keeping the car it might make sense to take your time and find an honest tranny shop and have the sprag changed along with the solenoids. Don't let the engine race in neutral. Mine blew up internally at about 115,000 miles. A good shop will listen to it and know exactly what it is. It cost me $2200 to rebuild that tranny and the tranny went at 60 MPH.. How is the idle now? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Its a scary noise when it happens it sounds bad enough to damage the tranny case. If you plan on keeping the car it might make sense to take your time and find an honest tranny shop and have the sprag changed along with the solenoids. Don't let the engine race in neutral. Mine blew up internally at about 115,000 miles. A good shop will listen to it and know exactly what it is. It cost me $2200 to rebuild that tranny and the tranny went at 60 MPH.. How is the idle now? i'm not too familiar with the finer points of posting.lol. the idle is the same. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 I am going to let others chime in here. Make sure you put all vacuum hoses back on, including the FPR vacuum hose. Itemize what you did to your car so that we can figure this one out, Mike If you removed the throttle body, ISC or TPS you will need to readjust the ISC and TPS. I am not sure why your ISC or TPS would be out of adjustment if you didnt mess with them. Why did you do the work in the first place (EGR, pull the fuel rail, etc) Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 I have two pages for adjusting the MINIMUM AIR, TPS and ISC. I can't make them small enough to post here, send me an email address and I will email them to you, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Mack, Before you do anything else, replace the gasket that you mentioned was torn. Also, get the correct EGR valve on the engine and hook up the vacuum hose. Currently, it sounds like you have a huge vacuum leak and that's probably the cause of the high idle. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Kevin, I think he means the round air horn gasket. But I agree, it sounds like he has a vacuum leak, like he might have a bad gasket at the egr or a vacuum booster connection broken off or pulled off. Mack listen for vacuum leaking, put the air filter box on and listen for vacuum. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Kevin, I think he means the round air horn gasket. But I agree, it sounds like he has a vacuum leak, like he might have a bad gasket at the egr or a vacuum booster connection broken off or pulled off. Mack listen for vacuum leaking, put the air filter box on and listen for vacuum. guys, here's all i can think of at the moment. let me know what other info to give. 1992 sedan deville. 74500 miles. wanted to get rid of the spark knock/detonation thing i've been hearing since i've owned it. bought it with 50,000 2 years ago. i lifted the fuel rail on both sides, the thermostat housing, unplugged the tps and moved it out of the way of the fuel rail. i also disconnected a couple of other lines which i cannot remember at the moment. i just cleaned the throttle body real well. alas, no better... one thingthat was strange is that in order to fit the egr valve on the nipple points the other direction. also, i saw after putting it on that there are some washers that came with it to make the hole going into the engine the same size as the original. could this be the problem? i didn't think it could affect it that much. maybe the egr isn't bolted down tight enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Did you remove the TPS? If you DID remove the TPS it gets adjusted now. If the FUEL RAIL is NOT seated you will suck air and cause this fast idle.. Detonation is caused by poor EGR flow. You need to clean those to tubes looking back up at you when you open the TB, and either clean or replace the EGR with an OEM EGR. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Did you remove the TPS? If you DID remove the TPS it gets adjusted now. If the FUEL RAIL is NOT seated you will suck air and cause this fast idle.. Detonation is caused by poor EGR flow. You need to clean those to tubes looking back up at you when you open the TB, and either clean or replace the EGR with an OEM EGR. dude, you've been a big help! i might be saying something wrong. if the tps is the thing on the back of the throttle body, i unplugged it only. the thing i moved was atttched to the plunger on the passanger side rear of the engine. i think i'm getting e22 also once was e98. should i spray some ether around the engine and listen for it to affect the idle? joe i'm going to check that fuel rail. all the bolts are tight but, maybe something isn't down all the way. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Kevin, I think he means the round air horn gasket. But I agree, it sounds like he has a vacuum leak, like he might have a bad gasket at the egr or a vacuum booster connection broken off or pulled off. Mack listen for vacuum leaking, put the air filter box on and listen for vacuum. guys, here's all i can think of at the moment. let me know what other info to give. 1992 sedan deville. 74500 miles. wanted to get rid of the spark knock/detonation thing i've been hearing since i've owned it. bought it with 50,000 2 years ago. i lifted the fuel rail on both sides, the thermostat housing, unplugged the tps and moved it out of the way of the fuel rail. i also disconnected a couple of other lines which i cannot remember at the moment. i just cleaned the throttle body real well. alas, no better... one thingthat was strange is that in order to fit the egr valve on the nipple points the other direction. also, i saw after putting it on that there are some washers that came with it to make the hole going into the engine the same size as the original. could this be the problem? i didn't think it could affect it that much. maybe the egr isn't bolted down tight enough? 1. Get rid of that EGR valve. Get one OEM (ACDelco) for $55 including shipping from autopartsgiant.com or gmpartsdirect.com. Or call the local Cadillac dealer and ask if they would match the price. That way you will get the part quicker. 2. To remove the EGR valve you did not need to remove the fuel rail, but rather TB should have been removed (what you did). 3. I doubt vacuum leaks associated with bad TB to Air Cleaner gasket could cause high idle. Nevertheless, there are many old plastic vacuum lines which could fail Buy a few feet of vacuum hose at autoparts store and replace all the suspicious vacuum line. Make sure one to PCV valve is connected. 4. Your high idle most likely caused by messing with TPS. Double-check the connection. Is it possible the TPS moved somehow? BTW, do the TB plates move freely? If there is a restriction (mechanical) they will never get minimum air position and it will result in high RPMs. Servo lines should be a little bit loose. I am afraid tranny problem you reported maybe somehow connected to excessively high RPM in neutral. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Kevin, I think he means the round air horn gasket. But I agree, it sounds like he has a vacuum leak, like he might have a bad gasket at the egr or a vacuum booster connection broken off or pulled off. Mack listen for vacuum leaking, put the air filter box on and listen for vacuum. guys, here's all i can think of at the moment. let me know what other info to give. 1992 sedan deville. 74500 miles. wanted to get rid of the spark knock/detonation thing i've been hearing since i've owned it. bought it with 50,000 2 years ago. i lifted the fuel rail on both sides, the thermostat housing, unplugged the tps and moved it out of the way of the fuel rail. i also disconnected a couple of other lines which i cannot remember at the moment. i just cleaned the throttle body real well. alas, no better... one thingthat was strange is that in order to fit the egr valve on the nipple points the other direction. also, i saw after putting it on that there are some washers that came with it to make the hole going into the engine the same size as the original. could this be the problem? i didn't think it could affect it that much. maybe the egr isn't bolted down tight enough? 1. Get rid of that EGR valve. Get one OEM (ACDelco) for $55 including shipping from autopartsgiant.com or gmpartsdirect.com. 2. To remove the EGR valve you did not need to remove the fuel rail, but rather TB should have been removed (what you did). 3. I doubt vacuum leaks associated with bad TB to Air Cleaner gasket could cause high idle. Nevertheless, there are many old plastic vacuum lines which could fail Buy a few feet of vacuum hose at autoparts store and replace all the suspecious vacuum line. Make sure one to PCV valve is connected. 4. Your high idle most likely caused by messing with TPS. Doublecheck the connection. Is it possible the TPS moved somehow? I am afraid tranny problem you reported maybe somehow connected to excessively high RPM in neutral. i'm going to check for vaccum leaks and look at the tps. i printed out the adjustment for the tps, but can't quite understand how to do it for my car. thanks, joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I sent the scans Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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