adallak Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 update, put the old egr back on. still idling high and running rough.also i noticed the spark knock/detonation thing again. i'll need a new egr valve. i took the isc off for now and am going to replace it also. is it possible that one of the plugs are fouled? will this cause the engine to over-compensate? the only thing i haven't rechecked is the fuel rails to see if they are properly seated. i'm still getting error 98. no big help there. gonna keep on it. thanks for all the help. joe What is RPM reading exactly? For how long? Does it change when the engine warms up? What is the dinamics of that change? Looks like ECM gets wrong input from the sensors (coolant temp, etc). EGR is disabled in idle while in Neutral (the EGR solenoid is closed and so is the EGR valve). Your high RPM is not EGR related. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 i don't have a tach so i can't say for sure. but it's got to be 1500 rpm or more. it actually speeds up a bit more when warmed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 i don't have a tach so i can't say for sure. but it's got to be 1500 rpm or more. it actually speeds up a bit more when warmed up. Can you disconnect coolant temperature sensor to see if it makes any difference? It is by the thermostat as far as I remember. Try to remember what else you "disturbed" what could cause high RPM. Any sensors disconnected? EDIT: Just a guess. You could ruin one or several sensors (oxygen, MAP?) because of the liquid you poured into the engine. I would disconnect them one by one and see what happens. Some carb cleaners are not oxygen sensor safe. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 adallac, thanks for the tips. i'll check those things in the morning. hopefully make some headway. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 well guys, i've been trying to fix this problem i created for the last three days. i think it's time to take it to a mechanic. i'll give you an update when i find out what's wrong with it. thanks for all the help you've been. especially bodybyfisher and adallac. want to "stay with it" but i'll need to be able to drive it. i'm running out of days off. LOL. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 well guys, i've been trying to fix this problem i created for the last three days. i think it's time to take it to a mechanic. i'll give you an update when i find out what's wrong with it. thanks for all the help you've been. especially bodybyfisher and adallac. want to "stay with it" but i'll need to be able to drive it. i'm running out of days off. LOL. joe Mack, I feel badly that we could not help here, we tried hard. Its an amazing setup, but sometimes if something goes awry, its a bear to figure out. We had difficulty with Frank in Germany and could not solve his problem. Sometimes its easier in person, I told Frank in Germany, fly me their and I'll bring my tools! One thing to think about however. In all the time, that I owned my 91, I never needed to twist my ISC in because it was causing my engine to race. The ONLY time I ever touched that screw when when I needed to do the Minimum Air, TPS and ISC adjustment by the book. I think that the system needs to be SET RIGHT the first time, kind of a STATIC starting point... Like you said, even when it was closed the throttle plate was open, not good. I don't know if you replaced the ISC but consider even getting one from a junk yard. If you want you can call me and we can kick it around, its definately easier to speak about this stuff over the phone, this mode of communicating sucks... Good Luck let us know how this turns out, Mike If it's any consolation, you bird dogged this and stuck in there and didn't let go, you learned a lot about your Caddy that's for sure... A short story.... my friend had a 1989 Chevy 4.3..... I spent YEARS trying to stop his car from hesitating, YEARS, it drove me crazy..... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Hi Mack, I haven't had time to read this whole thread, but was the cruise control linkage and throttle cable linkage ever looked at? If the cruise linkage is sticking, too tight due to being out of adjutment, or kinked, that would cause your throttle plate to be stuck open resulting in a high idle. There should be play in that linkage. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Hi Mack, I haven't had time to read this whole thread, but was the cruise control linkage and throttle cable linkage ever looked at? If the cruise linkage is sticking, too tight due to being out of adjutment, or kinked, that would cause your throttle plate to be stuck open resulting in a high idle. There should be play in that linkage. Good luck! GOOD THOUGHT Epriced! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Keep in touch. For some reason I think some sensors failed because of the cleaning fluid in the engine. Oxygen and MAP are the suspects. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 here's the latest....i'll leave out the details of my experience with the local garage. the car's not fixed, however; it's the rear fuel rail. i'm going to take up the fuel rail and check the injector o rings. gotta get started. i'll give you an update when i can. anyone know the o ring size i'll need and if places like advance auto and autozone carry them? thanks. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Don't use silicone on the o-rings, its not safe for the O2 sensor. Also don't use OIL as it can swell rubber. Honestly I am not sure what you can lube the o-rings up with that is safe, maybe someone else knows. You may not need to replace the o-rings, just make sure its seated good. Anyway, I doubt that you find these o-rings at a pep boys or autozone, but I bet the dealer has them in stock. Mike This would explain your vacuum leak. I am going to send you two pages regarding R&R the fuel rail. Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 here's the latest....i'll leave out the details of my experience with the local garage. the car's not fixed, however; it's the rear fuel rail. i'm going to take up the fuel rail and check the injector o rings. gotta get started. i'll give you an update when i can. anyone know the o ring size i'll need and if places like advance auto and autozone carry them? thanks. joe check this out: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/catalog.ph...8&parttype=6264 The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 adallac,Thanks that's a big help. i book marked that page for future reference. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 got the idle down! i changed both o rings on all the injectors. when i bolted the fuel rail down it still didn't seem to seat properly. i finally realized that the bracket that holds the right rear of the fuel rail was bent a little and wouldn't push the injectors down quite far enough. i put the isc back on. i'll need to adjust it and the tps. the car has a "skip" in it right now. it's running rough. Question: if the tps and isc are not set right, will the car run rough? thanks for the help. you guys are awesome. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Very Glad to hear it Joe.... Did those two scans of the fuel rail R&R help you? Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 mike, thanks for the 2 scans on the fuel rail. one of them gave the exact procedure to remove it. excellent stuff. also, it gave the exact steps to put it back together. i printed the scans and used them as a checklist. now if i would have done that 4 days ago.....lol. hope to get the roughness out today. gotta drive her tomorrow. see ya. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 When did the roughness begin? You replaced the plugs or just regapped them? Did you re-gap them? Check your ignition wires for proper routing, and for good connection at both ends. If you have an ohm meter test each wire for resistence, realize that length makes a difference in resistence, but replace any wires that are way out of the range. Pulling ignition wires can somtimes damage them internally. Make sure you hear/feel a positive click when you attach them to the plug... Did you torque the plugs to spec? Check all vacuum hoses. Check TPS since you had the TB off. Disconnect the battery and let the system do a relearn. Make sure everything is connected including the connector at the air filter housing. Remember that you used solvent in the cylinders, and cranked the hell out of the engine, change the oil also.. it might be running rough because it needs to stabilize and pump up the lifters, take it on a long ride when you are done checking... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 i put new plugs in, but when i realized i needed to remove the thermostat housing(this was the last thing i removed and not on the list) anti-freeze got down in the injector holes into the engine. i removed the plugs and spun the engine. put the plugs back in. they're gapped correctly. is it possible that the plugs have fouled? i know i need to set the tps and isc. i think i'll start with those and then maybe remoce the plugs(again!) joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 I wouldnt mess with the plugs again. How rough is it running? Check everything and take it for a long ride.. It may stabilize Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusion Posted January 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 thanks guys for all the help with my 92 deville, bodybyfisher and adallac especially. one of the brackets that holds the back fuel rail to the manifold was bent a little. I straightened it and the fast idle went away( 2 injectors weren't able to seat properly with it bent). I still had a skip/miss that i was unable to figure out. as it happens, the new distributor cap that i put on was actually bad. a garage charged me $100 to diagnose and repair. after all the time and worry i had into this operation, I didn't mind a bit. lesson learned here. if it aint broke don't fix it(unless you have guys like bodybyfisher email the diagrams). haha. anyway, after a total of about $300 the spark knock/detonation is gone. Mission accomplished! I may not choose to accept the next one... Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 If you choose to accept the next mission, we are here to support you, good job! Mike That 4.9 detonation is not easy to get rid of! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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