Cracking blower cases

[jfreezn]

Well, I smelled it first but it was easy to find when I looked for it. Our 94 ETC has a long crack, from top to bottom on the blower box, and the AC system is sucking in fumes from the engine compartment! Thanks to this forum, I knew where to look. For those who missed this, the AC blower box is on the firewall in the engine compartment. My engine is a Northstar and this may make a difference.

Now, the questions are, what is GM's liability in something like this. You can't smell carbon monoxide but there is a real possibility that someone could die if the wrong kind of fumes gets in the passenger compartment. And should the NHTSA be notified of each crack occurence.

Would someone like to start a survey on the number of Cad owners who have found cracked blower boxes. The survey should ask for the year, model, type of engine, and what part of the country the car hails from. My car sold new in Minnesota but has been in Phoenix 10 of it's 12 years. I admit to have used the seat warmers but don't recall ever having to use the ELECTRIC front windshield defrost feature which draws so many amps that the software calls for a 1200 rpm idle in park!

Thanks again for this forum. By the way, last year I left a donation in PayPal for the list owner, is that address still the same?

Regards,

Jim in Phoenix

[Scotty]

You know we have discussed this before. Since we have discussed this, I have heard that the black plastic cover is simply a sound dampener and not utilized as a vapor/odor barrier. From what I understand under the black plastic is a metal housing, therefore cracking of the black plastic is inconsequential and not serious. Its possible that fumes are being sucked in at the cowl air intake. Can someone confirm this for me? Mike

As far as GM being liable for this, if in fact what I have heard is not true (metal housing) and fumes can be drawn into the passenger compartment, why should GM be liable for a 1994 vehicle way beyond warranty? Their answer to you should be, "get it repaired if you can smell fumes". If a hub bearing wears out and the wheel falls off on an 11 year old car is GM responsible, nope? What about an 11 year old brake hose, the rubber dry rots, and cracks as it ages, you hit the brakes and blow the hose and kill someone in an intersection, is GM responsible, nope. Your muffler system has a hole in it and you go parking with your girlfriend in the winter and leave the car running and DIE from carbon monoxide, is GM responsible? Nope. Cars need maintenance especially an 11 year old car. Get it fixed and stop looking for someone else to blame for your 11 year old cars problem...Yours had been in Phoenix NO LESS wasn't it 111 degrees today and 109 for the last week?

We have become a BLAME someone else society, its sickening. Let me guess, you voted for Kerry and his trial lawyer running mate, Edwards with their 50,000 attorney's waiting in the wings. Please, get it fixed and check your brake hoses while you are at it... Its thinking like this that is moving our jobs out of the country.

[Bob D]

There's no lethal gasses under the hood while the engine is operating, period. If there is a carbon monoxide level detected, you have a serious exhaust leak. Something the owner/driver should hear, diagnose and repair.

This is not the place for the 'blame game'...

[95SLS]

Remember ay back when, when I had a Fuel rail leak and I complained about it here? Everyone thought I was crazy, but NTSA didn't they investigated it and GM begged to replace my fuel rail on my 11 and 10 year old cars free of charge. They went so far as to offer to come to the house and get them. I insisted that I would just run it until it blew up. They would not have. So, they do repair valid safety issues. In fact I think a lot of people got a shiny new METAL fuel rail FREE in place of the PLASTIC one.

If you are so sure thats what the problem is, look at the NTSA site, maybe it is, maybe you need to look elsewhere. Or maybe you need to get them to looking at it. You can buy Foil type duct tape I am sure that would seal it up completely if you install it right. It sticks like Gorilla Snot!

mike

[bigjayzway]

WHOA!!!! Scotty, did someone upset you when you were reading this post?

Harshest reply I have heard in a long time! But you are right, there is an issue of the 11 years old...

I didn't know you could smell carbon monoxide???? Last time I checked it was an odourless gas...lol

Big Jay

[Scotty]

WHOA!!!! Scotty, did someone upset you when you were reading this post?

Harshest reply I have heard in a long time! But you are right, there is an issue of the 11 years old...

I didn't know you could smell carbon monoxide???? Last time I checked it was an odourless gas...lol

Big Jay

You are right Jay, I was in a bad mood when I read the post and it was harsh. But there are certain things that set me off and people fishing for support sets me off in a big way. This site is not about that. If you want to fish, contact other people via email and built your case. I am not here to set ground rules or censure people but there are a few things that set me off and FISHING is one of them especially on your 13th posting. Furthermore, was the crack about the heated windshield drawing so many amps a criticism when it will never be needed in Phoenix?

We recently discussed the reasons why this site was different from others, and to me the essesence of it is that this board it pure, its visited by people who love Cadillacs and or GM and Cadillacs, we are positive individuals looking to SOLVE problems and help people, its innocent, it has integrity, we don't flame, we don't ridicule when one of our members does something bone headed, its a passion. Its not divisive, negative, critical or fault finding for the most part. We tend to get along, and even when one member ZINGS or politely puts down or refutes another its done with style and its not taken personal. I was ZINGED in an insensitive way today on another thread but brushed it off..

I also saw and understood Mike's (95SLS) point of view in his response!

I have often said this board is self-purging, we (at least I) tend to keep the ship pointed in a certain direction. There are other sites where you can get into the mud if you like that sort of thing. I will tend to get harsh at times, for those it upsets, let me say in advance, I am sorry.

[95SLS]

Don't be so hard on yourself Scotty, You made a few good points and got him thinking. You always have cool posts! I'm with you on it though, take the foil duct tape and seal it up, unless the car is in such great shape you want to buy new. If it was a big deal there would be a recall. If there is not, he can get the process started! Is the nut behing the wheel whinning too? I love My Cadillacs so much, I can't even fall in love with a new one! I have even seen some really sharp, and clean 80's style ones I'd love to have.

LOL I see the donation page about every time I fire up.

Mike

[jackc]

...From what I understand under the black plastic is a metal housing, therefore cracking of the black plastic is inconsequential and not serious.  ...Can someone confirm this for me?  Mike

My car has lost a considerable amount of the insulation on the blower housing. It does indeed appear that the actual housing is made of metal. No problem with fumes in the passenger compartment and I've chosen to ignore it.

[Scotty]

...From what I understand under the black plastic is a metal housing, therefore cracking of the black plastic is inconsequential and not serious.  ...Can someone confirm this for me?  Mike

My car has lost a considerable amount of the insulation on the blower housing. It does indeed appear that the actual housing is made of metal. No problem with fumes in the passenger compartment and I've chosen to ignore it.

Thanks jackc that is what I understood, Mike

[mike5514]

Jeez Scotty he was only asking a question not trying to undermine the american way of life. Mike

[stsjoe]

as for drawing air in a hole in the box, I don't know, but mine was blowing air OUT of the hole at a good clip. I sealed the hole and the diff. was night and day for heat and AC

[jfreezn]

<<Now, the questions are, what is GM's liability in something like this. You can't smell carbon monoxide but there is a real possibility that someone could die if the wrong kind of fumes gets in the passenger compartment. And should the NHTSA be notified of each crack occurence.>>

Update:

Well, I thought I would wait a couple days and see "which way the wind blows". I am not begging for factory support and have every intention of coating the blower box myself. Scotty, I don't think my 13 posts makes me dumber or smarter than you, nor should it affect how we think. ( I had many posts in the old forum, including one about my strong feelings about leaking side post batteries).

I believe there are many precedences where a manufacturer selected the wrong material and had to pay to replace it, even years later. Some examples that come to mind include polybutylene water piping, and the earliest ABS/plastic sewer pipe. Mercedes selected the wrong flexible material to make crank dampers on their V6s which has resulted in the outer ring flying off with considerable resultant damage. Failures have occured since 1998 and they have just recently put out a recall.

The hazard doesn't have to be just carbon monoxide ( which I mentioned you cannot smell) but any road fumes which can be injested. My wife is a good example. She has lung damage (carries her portable oxygen with her)and virtually any strong smells affect her negatively.

Depending on road speed, blower speed, and the position of the recirc/outside air dampers, I firmly believe that road fumes can be inhaled by the cracked blower box. The metal in the blower box is probably more of a structural support than an absolute barrier to air travel.

Finally, most of us are do it yourself types, trying to use this forum to fix and repair problems at a minimum cost. But there exists, out there, many a Cadillac owner who may be having breathing problems and has not, or cannot afford to have, taken the car into the shop, where the cracks may or may not be reported. What mechanism do we use to notify them of a potential risk?

Regards,

Jim in Phoenix

[Scotty]

Well said. However while your 13 posts do not have anything to do with your intelligence at all, it is just that, that on your 13th post you are talking about NTSA and doing a survey to build a case to determine GM liability. Pardon me for sounding harsh in my prior post but based on our experience many nudges, rabblerousers, and trolls show up looking negative. We have had a slew of them.

I do believe that your HVAC plastic housing issue is no longer an issue however as there is a metal housing underneath. You may be leaking oil from your valve cover gaskets or $case-half$ onto your manifold and the smoke is being drawing in through the cowl. I have experienced the same during hard braking and cornering.

You asked, What mechanism do we use to notify them of a potential risk?

Here is the answer, it took one google search:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems...ecallsearch.cfm

If in fact this is a problem I am sure they will investigate it for you.

[chevyorange]

I found a crack in my plastic blower box in my '94 STS and immediately sealed it up with good ole' Duct Tape (imagine that - Duct Tape sealing a duct). Anyway, the fumes I was smelling at idle thru the system were gone.

I have since had other problems and am having the engine rebuilt to take care of a laundry list of items that have crept up including a major oil leak and a cracked head (giving me a leak and overheating).

The fumes (smell) seemed to be coming from the oil leak which conveniently leaked right onto the CatCon.

Adam

[Scotty]

(imagine that - Duct Tape sealing a duct)

[eldoetc95]

My plastic blower box is cracking also...actually disentrigrating is a better term. I tried putting some 200 mph tape on it, but in that attempt, I broke even more of the case off, so it was 'hands off' lest it settle all to the ground. My question is, being one has restored old cars and likes things 'just so', can it be replaced without pulling the motor? My observation says that it can't, but I am all to often incorrect IF anyone has replaced it, let me know what you went thru to do it. Take care all

[Regis]

Ok so my blower housing is brittle too. As suggested before Duct tape works and so does RTV. I've applied RTV with a paint stir stick and also with those cheap foam paint brushes. These work well, especially if you duct tape the stir stick to the foam brush handle. Now you can easily access those hard to reach areas plus give it a nice smooth finish without "bruising" the plastic housing. Just squeeze some rtv onto the foam brush and spread it over the effected area...... viola!

[speedyman_2]

My friend that just bought a '96 Eldorado last month is having the same problem. The Car is in perfect condition, except for this box. And, it's beyond fixing with duct tape or RTV. It's become very very brittle, and a large piece is missing. No cracks here, just chunks coming off. He's moved up to Washington state. So, if anyone know how he can get help up there, he'd really appreciate it.

[Regis]

My friend that just bought a '96 Eldorado last month is having the same problem.  The Car is in perfect condition, except for this box.  And, it's beyond fixing with duct tape or RTV.   It's become very very brittle, and a large piece is missing.  No cracks here, just chunks coming off.  He's moved up to Washington state.  So, if anyone know how he can get help up there, he'd really appreciate it.

Trust me i know what you're talking about when you say "very very brittle". My 94 had a chunk fall off while I was inspecting it. I had a Bonneville SSE with the same problem only worse. The rtv and duct tape will bind all the pieces together and add strength. Of course it won't be perfect nor strong as the original but we're talking about a 10 yr old car after all. If you're expecting a fix that will hold up to substantial finger poking then I would suggest installing a new housing cover. Since I am able to restrain myself from "poking" ,the duct tape and rtv have worked well for me and many others. And ,naturally, care must be taken while applying either.

To patch missing chunks of the housing some have used a beer can, tin snips, and rtv. Cut the beer can to the appropriate size needed to cover the missing housing section, apply rtv around the edges, and lightly press into place. If aesthetics are important then you could always apply some black spray to the aluminum patch before adding the rtv. Just a thought.

[bigboy6998]

i had a posting on the old board about an experince i had at the dealer ship where they had replaced the blower under warenty. I rember the part that was breaking off had "cut here to remoeve" on it WITHOUT a metal plate under it as described in a drawing that was posted to it.

[Scotty]

I would imagine that the carriage could be supported on all for corners on the ground and the body could be lifted. Anyone know if that could be done? In this instance you need about 12 inches of clearance plus you could pull the coils. Is this possible?

[KHE]

These cars aren't a body on frame construction so I don't see how lifting the body clear of the powertrain would be much different than lowering the powertrain.

Have you read the R&R procedure for the A/C evaporator?

[Scotty]

These cars aren't a body on frame construction so I don't see how lifting the body clear of the powertrain would be much different than lowering the powertrain.

Have you read the R&R procedure for the A/C evaporator?

Maybe I wasnt clear, I meant support the carriage and lift the car and leave the carriage on the ground to me that sounds easier. I will look at the AC evaporator R&R, Mike

[KHE]

These cars aren't a body on frame construction so I don't see how lifting the body clear of the powertrain would be much different than lowering the powertrain.

Have you read the R&R procedure for the A/C evaporator?

Maybe I wasnt clear, I meant support the carriage and lift the car and leave the carriage on the ground to me that sounds easier. I will look at the AC evaporator R&R, Mike

I don't know what you could lift the body with that wouldn't damage it.

On the evaporator, just hope you NEVER need to do that job......

[eldoetc95]

Actually, with the engine cradle disconnected from the body, the body at the front end would be considerably lighter. With 2 floor jacks, you probably could raise the car at either of 2 locations, the front jacking points were you put your car jack when you get a flat tire, or just behind the rear cradle attachment ponts were the under body is a support structure (has to be since the cradle is bolted there). Except my blower case is the least of my problems at this moment. I had my shift Selenoids A and B replaced 3 weeks ago, but now I am getting the dreaded P056 code. The $20 dollar part and $2000 labor fix. I love this car, but I am at a crossroads here on what to do