cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Help! Yesterday morning the car seemed fine going to church but when I got off the highway, I noticed that t was sluggish to accelerate. I listened and noticed that it was not shifting but appeared to be at normal RPMs at 65mph. It appeared that the car was stuck in 4th gear. I stopped, put in park, shut off the car, and restarted to no avail. I pulled in when we got home and parked her. The wife texted me this morning that the car will not go in reverse. I assume that means that the transmission is still stuck in 4th. Any ideas? I haven't scanned for any codes as I don't have a code reader that will scan beyond engine codes. 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 A little back ground information... The tranny fluid was changed and screens cleaned at 80k. The tranny cooler lines are attached to the tranny via quick connects. On March 13th of this year, the clip fell off of one of those and the tranny fluid dumped out until the vehicle was immobile. We had it towed home and I found the tranny line hanging. I replaced the clip, attached the line, and put 11 quarts of fluid in. Twice since the March 13th incident, after bringing the car to a stop from highway speeds, the car has been out of gear upon take off and violently "Banged" into gear. It has not done this in a few months. Currently 132k. Thoughts? 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 I called a tranny shop and they are going to do a diag at no cost. He came recommended from a colleague. I explained the history and his first suspicions was that the clutches got damaged when the tranny ran dry. He said that it won't hurt it any more than it is to drive it stuck in 4th so I'm going home to push it out of the garage and have the wife follow me to drop it off. 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 My first guess is the planetary gears/sun gear or the sprag is bad. Which usually means a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 I'm driving it and I think that it is starting in third and shifts once, into 4th. Around 25mph you can feel her "Engage"... Kind of like she's slipping somewhat at take off. What does the lock up do? 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 On second thought I might have 2nd,3rd, and 4th. May be just no first or reverse. 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Tranny shop says that the tranny needs to either be replaced or rebuilt. 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Did the shop provide any details on what is causing the problem? Sun shell, clutches? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Tranny shop says that the tranny needs to either be replaced or rebuilt. Sorry to hear that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 No, they did not. They said that they can't determine the extent of the rebuild until tearing it down. $2800 high end for the rebuild with a 12k/1yr or $3500 for a reman with 100k/3yr. 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I am curious how the clip came off. There should be A plastic retainer to prevent the clip from (on a rare chance) coming out. I have found this has happened to other GMs of this era. Usually once the transmissions in that era are run dry or overheated they are toast. I also have noticed The oem radiators have brass retainers for the lines, but the replacements have steel retainers. I wish you the very best of luck, I feel the transmission would have typically been ok but with a loss like that it is hard on it, Keep us posted GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCold Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I replaced my tranny about 5 months ago whicj I pulled from pull a part. It was a 2004 into a 2005 but so far, so good. Only paid $137.00 for trans and not much to install. Before I knew it I was in warp drive 4....Still smiling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 How did the retaining clip come off??? Well, that has been a question of mine that I have not pursued an answer for as I find the probability of ascertaining that to be unlikely. Further background...Last December the car was towed into a local Chevy dealership to have the water pump replaced. In the process, they broke a riser tube on the intake manifold and forced me to pay them to put a replacement intake in. They procured one from a salvage yard. They also processed the washer fluid heater and pocketed the $100 while also losing my from Scottish Rite vanity plate that they took off to joy ride the car for a couple of weeks. After threatening the service manager with getting the police involved, I got the $100 for the recall which I used to purchase the aftermarket heater that has been of discussion on this forum. I had no way to prove that the intake tube wasn't already broken when I took it in so I had no choice but to pay for it if I wanted my car back. All in all I was out $1k on that endeavor. I have researched that dealership since and have found a number of reviews about shady sales practices there...So...I have wondered if they did something to this causing that line to pop out 4 months later or not. Does anyone know if those quick connects can be unscrewed and have a line screwed in? 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Who changed the trans fluid, and how was it done? Was it just a pan drop, or was it connected to a flush machine at a shop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Who changed the trans fluid, and how was it done? Was it just a pan drop, or was it connected to a flush machine at a shop? When the fluid change was done at 80k, it was performed by myself. It was a pan drop and the inner plug was pulled. This only changes about half of the fluid but I had read from others stating that a flush would be bad so I did not flush it. 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 What's everyone's thoughts on a DIY? I can get a cherry picker and used LKQ tranny for a third of the cost. I used to swap motors and trannys around in the W bodies of the 90's but it's probably been 14 years since I did any of that. I've got air and a relatively complete tool set. I'd probably have to invest in a center axle nut socket. Is it difficult to pull the drive train out of the top of the car, separate on the ground, marry up to the replacement, and drop back in without issues? I do not have the resources to drop the drive train so I would be pulling it out of the top. 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 What's everyone's thoughts on a DIY? I can get a cherry picker and used LKQ tranny for a third of the cost. I used to swap motors and trannys around in the W bodies of the 90's but it's probably been 14 years since I did any of that. I've got air and a relatively complete tool set. I'd probably have to invest in a center axle nut socket. Is it difficult to pull the drive train out of the top of the car, separate on the ground, marry up to the replacement, and drop back in without issues? I did the job on my '97 STS last winter in my garage (between Christmas and New Year's). I posted some pictures on this site. You don't need to pull the whole powertrain - A support structure needs to be built to keep the engine in place. I used 4x4 lumber and copied the GM tool. The engine hangs by the lift rings to the support structure. The subframe is then removed and then the transmission is lowered. You will need a transmission jack and an adapter for the jack. Transmission jacks are designed for RWD transmissions and the center of mass of a FWD transmission is different. I figured the approximate center of mass using the replacement transmission assembly, then placed the transmission jack under the old trans and marked the steel strapping I had in order to weld the adapter brackets together. The Kent Moore adapter plate could also be purchased but like all Kent Moore tools, they are obscenely overpriced. When you remove the subframe to body bolts, use a breaker bar to loosen them, then tighten them and work them back and forth in order to remove them without the captive nut turning in place. You will need some large jack stands to support the front of the car - I used a small length of 2x6 on top of the jacks to spread the load over the body. You need to do this since the subframe needs to come out and the subframe contains the normal jack points. Once you have the trans. free of the engine, lower the transmission jack a half-inch at a time and keep checking to make sure you don't snag/pinch any wiring or lines. Here is a link to my thread when I did the job: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=43295&hl=%2B1997+%2Bsts+%2Btransmission+%2Bremoval#entry216935 You will need a can of transmission cooler cleaner to flush through the trans. cooler and all lines to remove any debris. I used compressed air to remove as much of the contaminated fluid from the lines and transmission cooler before hooking up a can of "Kooler Kleen" to flush them completely. I then filled the new transmission with fresh fluid and disconnected the output line, started the engine and let the trans pump fluid until I saw bright red fluid coming out. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Is it not easier to pull out of the top end, separate on the ground, and drop back in? Extra cost would be an exhaust donut, brake fluid to bleed brakes after master cylinder reinstallation, and maybe an A/C refill if you didn't pull the compressor from the motor and move it aside. Your thread is good at conveying some of the issues but makes me nervous. I used to be able to change out engines and trannies in the W bodies on a Saturday and be driving it by late afternoon. No air or torches...Just hand tools. 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 For reference, those W bodies used 4T60e transmissions from I think 1994 out. I forget what they had prior but they were not electronically shifted so you had the throttle body cable that went to the transmission as well. 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 If you do it yourself you will know it is right. That is my theory. I have had bad experience with my local dealer more than once. I now refuse to do business with them, they could seem to care less. GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Is it not easier to pull out of the top end, separate on the ground, and drop back in? Extra cost would be an exhaust donut, brake fluid to bleed brakes after master cylinder reinstallation, and maybe an A/C refill if you didn't pull the compressor from the motor and move it aside. Your thread is good at conveying some of the issues but makes me nervous. I used to be able to change out engines and trannies in the W bodies on a Saturday and be driving it by late afternoon. No air or torches...Just hand tools. There is no need to pull the engine - I doubt if the engine and trans. would fit through the opening anyway. I suppose you could drop the entire powertrain out the bottom and then separate them but that would be more work. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I'm looking at this and remembering how easy it was to pull top side. Did you have to remove the steering intermediate shaft and various heat shield? 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I'm looking at this and remembering how easy it was to pull top side. Did you have to remove the steering intermediate shaft and various heat shield? You can't pull the engine and transmission as a unit from the top side. Pulling the engine just to get it out of the way doesn't make sense - you're better off dropping just the trans. out the bottom while supporting the engine from the top. I had to remove the intermediate shaft pinch bolt in order to move the rack enough to disconnect the power steering lines. I used bungee cords to hold the rack & pinion in place while the subframe was lowered. I think there was a heat shield that needed to be removed but it was not a big deal. The two huge problems I ran into was one of the axles was seized into the hub and I had a subframe bolt that was frozen. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 ...The two huge problems I ran into was one of the axles was seized into the hub and I had a subframe bolt that was frozen. I hope that those would not be issues as this is a 2008. Will this work to support the engine? http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-engine-support-bar-96524.html 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadillacjeff7777 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Also, I don't have access to a welder. Can a tranny jack be used as is? 2008 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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