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General cooling - coolant Tempertures


princess

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You should NOT have to add coolant every week, or every month for that matter. You have a leak. I would find it rather than just put Bars' Leak in the coolant.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I know thats part of the issue..... my coolant is disappearing somewhere and im having an issue finding the leak.

By the way good morning

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By Princess - 6/25 My Check coolant light has come on twice in a 10 day period requiring 1/2 gallon of antifreeze first time 10 days later needed another 1/2 gallon. I replaced Radiator cap just because i took it off and like the flow-vent type caps..I also notice what looks like a "cooper flake" reside on bottom of radiator cap that looks like someone threw "stop Leak" in the car. Im trying to figure out why and where my coolant went mind you the car runs fine but Im really

Reply by Me, 6/26 You don't say where you bought the car, but if it was from a Used Car Lot, you should get it back under warranty right away. If from an individual or purchased "as is", you've got some work to do. First thing is to find out where that antifreeze is going. Some of the things we've seen on this board are:

Plastic Coolant tank

Heater core

hoses

Metal coolant pipes behind the engine rusted out

bad radiator cap

radiator end tanks (plastic)

Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed.

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RADATOR CAP - was first thing i replaced with a flo-vent one
I visually checjed both radiator and plastic coolant tank (had a ford that use to weep from the side radiATOR TANKS) but didnt detect anything
Hoses are all fairly new from what i can tell
Heater core... didnt think of that on thou or he metal coolant pipes behind engin (funnyy i already know Ive suffered a brake line rupture due to rusted out metal brake lines so thats a good point...

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I don't know what a Flo-Vent radiator cap is, but your best choice would be an OEM replacement, just like the original one from the factory.

Some of those leaks can be very difficult to detect, like the hoses and pipes behind the engine. I do recall that you tested the coolant tank for exhaust gases, correct? Funny thing about the NS, coolant can actually leak into the cylinders when the car is not running if there is a bad HG. But the amount of coolant you report being missing is pretty excessive. That amount at one time into a cylinder would cause hydrolock, and let's just say that you'd notice that right away.

All of that being said, the coolant must be tested for combustion by-products after a long period of use. Changing coolant or adding straight water to the tank (or overfilling the tank) negates any and all of the results. The exhaust gases accumulate into the air space above the liquid level over a period of a couple of weeks. Test after a period of operation.

If your heater core is leaking, the issue usually shows up in the interior of your car. Most likely on the passenger side floor insulation, UNDER the carpet. That insulation will be wet and sticky if you have a leak there. Most likely the sweet smell of coolant will be noticeable inside your car.

I have left out a lot of places that coolant can leak undetected, but others will add more spots to check once you have gone through all of those.

Are you now filling the coolant tank to the proper level, and with a 50/50 mixture? If you look at the side of the molded plastic tank, you will see two marks, one is "Full Cold" and the higher one is "Full Hot". Be sure to use those marks when adding coolant to any car.

Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed.

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Losing about a quart a week sounds like steam pockets in the head. I believe a flo-vent radiator cap is one with a lever on top that can release the pressure; I don't think that they come as the right type for a Northstar because they take a screw-type radiator cap. The whole point of screwing on and off is to release the pressure before the cap comes off, so you don't need a flo-vent lever on a screw-type radiator cap.

If the bypass isn't flowing, the radiator pressure isn't 15 psi, or the coolant isn't at least 50% antifreeze, steam pockets will form in the head, accumulate at the thermostat and keep it from seeing the hot water for a short time so that more steam forms, and the steam will force water out the overflow. That can cause your quart of coolant loss a week.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the water pump belt. The water pump is on the rear of a transverse Northstar, on the front head over on the driver's side by the transmission, and is driven by a big pulley on a camshaft. It has it's own V-belt and tensioner under a cover. Check the belt and make sure that the tensioner is good.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I actually got it to overheat..... in heavy DC traffic

I think it is the relays or fans because it is only running hot at complete stops or at speeds under 47 mph I maintain 60-70mph coolant temp stays between 188F-196F when drop off highway It begins to slowly but steadily climb....

I have not allowed it to exceed 255F before shutting down.... itll go back in shop end of month but im at least getting there with resolving the main issue.

Made for a he** of ride home thou lol

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Water pump belt looks new and tight.

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With the engine cold, pop the hood and start the car. Unless the A/C is <Off> the fans should be on low speed. If they are not, start checking fuses, fan relays, and fan motors. Start by turning off the key and seeing if both the fans turn freely. Then make sure that the fan relays, in a row of three below the fans, all are securely plugged in and the wiring isn't damaged.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Fans worked..... I now have a slight miss fire for first 3-5 minutes while engine is warming up to operating temp... does not throw code though. Im fairly convinced i have a weak or leaking head gasket would explain the unusual issues that i have been noticing with cooling system

Unknown Coolant loss, temp spikes to the 240F mark, Bars stop lesk in the overflow...etc... (which Im fine with, considering what i paid for the vehicle) Ill have it repaired soon has i can find a shop that will actually take the job aand that i think can do it correctly around where I live without killing my purse...im assuming a correct head gasket job on these should be around the $2,000.00 - $3,000.00 Mark? ( Not dealership prices theyve already advised me that they "typically dont like working on cars has old as mines" Yes im qouting them...LOL, needless to say i had a couple choice curse words for them when they said that to me at the dealrship...LOL)

Ill let you know what it turns out to be probably first week in Sept.
Good information for someone else that maybe expereincing similar issues or unusual things has I.
But its cutting into my shoe budget!! :glare::angry2:

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If you think that there is some possibility that your car has head leakage, you should test the coolant for combustion products. There is a quick nose test that may tell the tale: if the overflow tank has bubbles coming up and smells like exhaust, OR if the exhaust smells like coolant if you shut it off after a few seconds of running cold the first thing in the morning, then you almost certainly have head leakage. Very slight cases may be hard to detect with the nose but once they are bad enough to cause missing and significant coolant loss then the nose is pretty reliable. But the testing of the coolant for combustion products is definitive.

I would NOT assume and plan for head gasket repair unless I had a positive test for head gasket leakage.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I apologize, with my job I travel alot so I still havent had the time to put the Cadillac into the shop but, I have had a slow morning to do a little troubleshooting myself.
Last saturday after I noticed the car would "misfire" when it was cold and make the "service engine soon" light flash if i attempted to drive it or just reved engine above 2,400RPMS.
Since the coolant already had that "bars leak copper flake head gasket sealer" in it when I bought it I threw another bottle of it in the cooling system. Not to fix it but to test a few things.

(Plus, it was already a part of the cooling system so damaged already done)

I could smell the car burning it or combusting the stuff after I added to the cooling system from the exhaust and the smoke it produced this lasted 12 minutes then stopped.

The bars leak seemed to have temporarily repaired ( trust I know it didnt fix anything its just masking the problem)
my codes im throwing now are as follows:

PC0133 O2 slow response Bank 1 Sensor #1

PC0139 O2 slow response Bank 1 Sensor #2

PC0300 Engine Misfire Detected (only threw this cold during warm-up)

PC1139 Insufficient Switching Bank 1 Sensor #2

PC1258 Coolant Temperture 268F Protection Mode Activated

Thanks Cadillac Jim for the ODB XLS File !!! Much Appreciate ( I owe you dinner "and yes I have culnary experience :) )

Bank 31 is the bank closest to the firewall (rightside of engine) CORRECT?

Im actually taking this time to "plan for the worse" under the assumption that I have leaking headgasket I did find a shop whos done some work on my Honda Civic who said he would take the job and has done 2 before for $2,800.00 because he has to pull the engine from car (meaning he knew that without looking it up so i was a little impressed).
My other option I have is Carroll Cadillac (which I beleive a few of you recommended) for an engine rebuild at $4,850.00 plus a $950 transport fee.

So $3,000 vs $6,000.00 either way can live with either considering the fact I only paid $1,400 for the car with new tires and almost new interior with a climate control system that works.
I dont drive it cause im rarely home, and drive my lil red Taurus when I am.

Just wanted to provide an update to what was going on with my baby

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I think all the codes are related to the head gasket leakage. When you put it back together, change all the oxygen sensors because they seem to have been corroded by the burning coolant going over them. You might also want to look at the cat to see if it is clear and functioning.

If you change the cat, get a universal that needs the flanges with oxygen sensor bosses welded on and use the flanges off the old cat. You'll save about $200 that way because the "exact fit" cats are horribly expensive.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Oxygen Sensor 1 is the sensor on the exhaust manifold right where all the cylinders come together. It reads the mixture from each cylinder as the engine fires.

Bank 1 is on the side with cylinder 1, i.e. the firewall side, as you said. Bank 2 is on the side with cylinder 2, i.e. the radiator side.

Sensors 2 and 3 are the ones on the front and back of the cat. These monitor the functioning and efficiency of the cat and are required by the federal air quality regulations. These are different oxygen sensors than the ones on the exhaust manifold, which are used to regulate the mixture as part of the DFI.

You really shouldn't use any sealer other than the GM tabs recommended for your car, or the OEM exact same thing, Bar's Stop Leak Tablets:

http://barsproducts.com/catalog/view/6-radiator-stop-leak-tablets-hdc

No sealer is any good with a head leak. Northstar's don't have severe head leakage unless a head bolt pulls, and nothing will seal that if you put then engine under load, as in pull a hill or pass a car on the highway. There are some sodium silicate (water glass) sealants that were of some use with some iron engines if you chose not to put the engine under load, ever. There is no treatment-in-a-bottle for any engine sold in any quantity in the last decade or two.

But, don't commit to a head gasket job until you have diagnosed the problem totally. Run it for a week and get a positive test for combustion products in the coolant. Or, if you really trust the nose test, and have bubbles in the overflow tank that smell like exhaust and can smell coolant in the exhaust if you start it cold in the morning and shut it off to go see what it smells like, then you can decide using your nose.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I attempted the coolant system combustion products test however because the car was (i assume) "burning coolant" it required coolant like once a week which I believe is what made those test results inaccurate.
The over heat condition occured on a ride back from my mothers house has I was driving it hard and passing "the slowest people in the world" who wanted to do 60mph in a 70mph.... after 3hrs I hit heavy traffic and it instructed me to "Pull over and allow car to idle" then to 'STOP - Engine Immediately" which I did allowed it to cool for 40 minutes back down to 212F drove 10 miles ad shot up to 252F I pulled over and shut it down and allowed to cool again 30 minutes this patteren went on for 2.5 hrours or 40 miles :)

It drives around my area now normally but I dont speed or hard acccelerate in that particular vehicle cause its just built for cruising to me.

Again I know the bottle didnt fix anything, im just using it has a gauge and a testing tool considering the fact the stuff was already in cooling system when I bought it. The fact I could smell the engine burning the stuff in the bottle out of the exhaust system tells me that there is coolant somehow leaking into one or more cyclinders combustions chambers.

It is EXTREMELY HARD to find a mechanic here that will work on a cadillac let alone one has old has mines (this inclides the dealership) and one who knows what they are doing in regards to the Northstar engine.

barczy01 Thanks that actually might be doable as I have a daughter who lives in that city whom I owe mother daughter time too anyway.
So ill be in touch once I get price qoutes for transporting it to that city

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I know you said you replaced the rad cap already. Just wanted to comment on that. Are you sure you replaced it with the correct one? It should be a 15 pound cap. I had the same problem with my 96 and I had to replace the cap. Just wanted to double check on that..

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