Jump to content

rockfangd

Recommended Posts

Hi folks I have a dilemma at this time.

My Deville broke the other night. luckily in my work parking lot rather than on the highway otherwise It would likely be totalled.

The right control arm broke where the shaft goes through the subframe at the front. The tire went into the back side of the fender and if I turn the wheel the whole arm turns.

The car is completely not drivable. I had to extremely carefully position the car out of the way and it has been stuck there since monday.

I am flipping because I need my Deville and it has never left me stranded before. I have called all over and there appears to be no aftermarket control arm, and the dealer is discontinued.

I know 96 was the last year they used that design but what other years did use it?

As of right now I have 2 options

1. try to find and remove one from the local salvage yard.

2. remove the arm and attempt to weld a new piece onto where the arm broke and replace the bushings.

I also cant find the bushings. What are strut rod bushings? I am wondering if that is what they call the bushing kit. If anyone has any insight on this I would very much appreciate it.

These past few weeks have just been rotten and this just tops it

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites


RockAuto has the control arm bushings and the strut rod bushing. As far as discontinued parts are concerned, some dealers will use their computer to find other dealers that still have them in stock and either refer you to them or buy them from the other dealer for you. One of the best is Chris Heath at Rippy Automotive, a GM dealer in Wilmington, NC. See RippyAutomotive.com for contact information; call Parts and ask for Chris.

I found your control arms on ThePartsBin.com. The manufacturer is an outfit called Rare Parts. Price is listed as $63.33 to $91 with bushings. You'll have to get the right part for your car. They offer live chat. Have the VIN and option sheet for your car handy when you call.

Here is a selection of URLs that I put together in 2006 when I was getting some repairs:

http://www.car-parts.com (used)

http://www.cadauto.com (used)

http://www.gmotors.com

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/

http://www.rockauto.com

http://www.rareparts.com/index2.html (rare parts site)

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did the strut rod wear through and break?

Here is a photo of Regis's worn strut rod. I had sent him a new control arm. He also had a problem with the strut rod detaching from the control arm itself if I recall, the rivets loosened.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzervdxw/id1.html

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you have a hard time getting one let me know, I have a scrap yard that may be helpful and maybe I can send it to you as I did Regis. It is hard to find a good used one, many have the same wear problem yours shows, you will probably need to replace the ball joint. Yours must have been making a racket, check the other one. The rubber bushings go bad and allow the rod to contact the frame.

Let me know.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you have a hard time getting one let me know, I have a scrap yard that may be helpful and maybe I can send it to you as I did Regis. It is hard to find a good used one, many have the same wear problem yours shows, you will probably need to replace the ball joint. Yours must have been making a racket, check the other one. The rubber bushings go bad and allow the rod to contact the frame.

Let me know.

actually no noise. just change of alignment when I hit bumps and a front end wobble like a bad wheel. It has been getting pretty bad lately

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well to update this. I got the arm fixed today. I removed the control arm from the car and located a bolt that would be the length of the whole section where the washers and bushings go. then I cut the arm and welded the bolt onto the arm. So basically when you put the retaining washers and bushings on they are all going on the bolt itself not the rod. I welded it perfect and it was cake to install. And wow what a difference in the handling on the ride home.

although the car is home I have downed it until I perform the same to the other side. Then once it is done I will have to get an alignment done. Should ride much better after it is done.

Also I replaced the balljoint on my arm while I had it out and the new balljoint is thinner than the original. I dont like that at all. I am going to contact raybestos about it. Basically the section that is sandwiched into the arm is thinner and has play til you tighten the 3 bolts. Anyone else run into this?

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I have wonderful news. I performed the same repair to the driver side and all went well. Everything lined up perfect. I dont have to replace the control arms and my repairs should last the life of the car.

the car rode beautiful. It has never rode so good. And the steering wheel is straight. (I am still going to get the alignment checked)

When I hit bumps the steering is still responsive and it doesnt have the wobble anymore. It even feels like it coasts better.

I imagine the bushings were bad since I bought the car because I have always had the problem of front end shimmy, I have had the alignment done at least 4 times and every time it was the same story. toe was out all else was good. I dont know how nobody found out. And if you shake down the front end you will not feel it. You have to watch the arm as you have someone turn the steering wheel back and forth.

Now if anyone knows a proper alignment procedure like I do you know that when you set your toe on both sides you are supposed to release the steering wheel and turn it lock to lock and recenter it. if the toe changes you have a problem. Well I am thinking that part was never done. I had the alignment done at 3 different places because I didnt believe the results of any of them.

So I gave up with aligning it. all said front end was good.

All I can say is that anyone that has this style it is definately something to look into if you are having any front end issues. Thanks all for the help. And the best part is other than the welding and remove and install time, the bushing kit for both sides was only 15.00 and the 2 grade 8 bolts with nuts were only 3.00. so 18.00 and some time fixed an issue I have delt with for a long time.

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is something that I did on my 96 Deville that makes a huge difference in directional stability getting rid of the sloppy floating feeling. I used POLY bushings which were very tight. Glad you improved your handling.

By the way that is a creative repair, I dont think I would have considered doing that. How do you feel about the strength of the repair? Did you use an 8 hardness bolt?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was the problem on the front of the car or the rear? How did you attach the strut rod? A picture would be helpful to see what the fix was.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was the problem on the front of the car or the rear? How did you attach the strut rod? A picture would be helpful to see what the fix was.

Kevin, the strut rod did not come loose, the end near the bushing wore through and snapped. A side note, Regis also had a strut rod detach from the control arm as the rivets came loose. If you look at the link I posted above you can see Regis's repair of the damaged rod. Looking back now, that rod shouldnt have been repaired but replaced.

I think this can be dangerous if it broke at high speeds during a turn. All owners with this strut rod setup should have this checked out given the age of this setup now. I am very surprised that alignment shops did not discover it. My 91 and 96 had this setup and because I am such a nut about handling, I have always replaced the strut rod bushings to improve wander in the steering on turns as it drove me crazy. Rock seemed to not be able to solve the wander that became shimmy which turned dangerous over time.

Oddly enough, simply removing the nut and bushing would uncover bushing and or rod wear from rubbing up against the carriage. A bad bushing allows the rod to contact the frame. In 97 the strut rod was abandoned and a two bushing control arm was instituted.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will be honest that I am confident in the repair. I used only grade 8 bolts and I weld on a daily basis. The arms themselves were completely fine. but were thin where the inner bushing was and therefore one side broke. I did not really want to do it like that but I didnt really want used. New ones are not readily available, and right now I am strapped for money. I am going to closely monitor them anyway but am confident they should be stronger than when they were new. I forgot my cam but I will post a picture of the detail

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that was an impressive and innovative repair job!

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way, send me your address in a PM, i have something I want to send to you

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is the control arm in question, note the poly bushings, new arm bushing and new ball joint with poly dust seal

LowerControlArm.jpg

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thank you very much. Excellent picture. I didnt have my camera when I did the work and that is why I didnt get good pics. I give anything for a good photoshoot.

Here is a picture of the first one I did. It may not look perfect but I welded the bolt to the arm. then welded around the head of the bolt to the arm. I figure my weld should bee stronger than the pencil thin rod that was there before. and actually the bolt I welded was slightly thicker than the arm itself. It is a standard bolt.

1215121409_zps731fa43d.jpg

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rock,

If I were you, I would look for some control arms - there has to be something in the aftermarket since the OEM has been discontinued. A SAE grade 2 or metric 8.8 bolt is pretty weak (I call them butter bolts...) for the load this part can experience. You would not want the weld or the soft bolt to break at road speed.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kevin, I think rock said he used a grade 8 bolt. Do you think the weld could break?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rock,

If I were you, I would look for some control arms - there has to be something in the aftermarket since the OEM has been discontinued. A SAE grade 2 or metric 8.8 bolt is pretty weak (I call them butter bolts...) for the load this part can experience. You would not want the weld or the soft bolt to break at road speed.

they are grade 8. I stock nothing less. Also they are welded in 3 sections so it would take alot to break it

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I took the "standard bolt" to mean SAE grade 2 or Metric 8.8.

The part sees very high loads - It appears to be a forging from the pictures. I would be concerned the weld would break.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am going to hope the welds hold. I have not found any aftermarket at all. Even if they can get me by for awhile I will be happy. And I figure it is better than it was before. The passenger side rod was no thicker than a pencil.

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bought an old car once, a 1969 Chevrolet station wagon with a big block. It had lots of problems due to poor maintenance and 100,000 miles. Focusing on the suspension, it had lots of slack and I had it aligned several times at different shops over a period of about six months. Each time, the alignment people found one problem. After several tries, I got the Pittman arms, the tie rod ends, the ball joints, and the steering knuckle all fixed and all was well.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol that would have been nice if someone actually said something to me. Unfortunately where I work we do not have an alignment machine otherwise I would not have let anyone touch it

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

rockgangd, I strongly suggest that you talk to BBF about a used part, or call Rippy Automotive at 800.747.7922 (ask for Chris) and talk to him about your part. Either he can get it or he can tell you how to get one.

Also, I found your part on ThePartsBin.com (see my post on this thread, number two).

If you have a lot of confidence in your repair, just get a price and plan for now. My worry is that if this is a forged part, no weld is going to hold indefinitely.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont know if it is forged. It just seemed like a thick steel rod to me. The welds took very well to both the rod and the bolt. I am going to keep an eye out for when my financials get better

GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...