hjb981 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I am going to replace the struts on my '97 DeVille. Should I also replace the strut mounts, even if they look fine (I have not inspected them yet)? How much influence on ride quality and noise do you think the strut mounts have? Any ideas about the quality of the different brands available? /Jonas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I replaced the strut mounts on mine because they aren't that expensive but getting back to them after you have the car together is expensive, and I didn't want to tie the car up if it turned out that I needed them and didn't have them on hand. There are those here that have done this job themselves that may be able to tell you how to check the strut mounts before you tear down the suspension or take the car in. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I would change everything. Especially if they are original to the 97. especially the strut bearings. Mixing new and used strut parts is not a good idea because the new parts makes the old parts wear 3 times faster. and the old parts can prematurely wear the new parts. And I would not want to do the job twice. GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I am going to replace the struts on my '97 DeVille. Should I also replace the strut mounts, I would not replace the strut mount (it is only a thrust bearing) without a reason. A simple test is to park the front wheels on two pieces of cardboard each and have someone turn the steering whell from lock to lock while you place your hand on top of the strut tower. If you feel any sign of "roughness", new strut mounts would be a good idea. Otherwise, there is no reason to throw new parts at a problem that does not exist. My '98 rolled up 206,xxx miles on the factory installed mounts without a problem and yes, the struts were replaced once and were nearing the replacement point again. ....even if they look fine.... Looking at strut mounts installed in the car will tell you nothing. ....Mixing new and used strut parts is not a good idea because the new parts makes the old parts wear 3 times faster. and the old parts can prematurely wear the new parts. Good grief!! Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I replaced mine but I tend to replace everything while I am doing a job since I do the job myself. If I recall, strut mounts were $75 each about 5 years ago, these will cost more if your mechanic is supplying them. An obvious sign that a strut mount is bad is poor steering return, a squawk/creak on turning while stopped or a binding that can be felt by holding the spring as the steering wheel is turned you will feel vibration (careful not to get hurt). The fact is, the strut mount must come off to move the spring to the new strut. But as Jim said, some have no problems with the strut mount. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 lol. my 96 is hitting 200000 miles on all original struts and shocks. still rides like a dream. Very lucky I guess. But I have seen some completely shot at 40-50k miles GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 I thought that all of mine were fine at 160,000 miles because it rode and handled fine - until I changed them. Acceptable, they were. Great, they are. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 You really don't know what performance you are missing until you restore it, I replaced all wearing parts in my 96, and it handled incredibly. My opinion is, ok so you are replacing the struts, but not the strut mounts, even though they must come off?, why not replace them now, since they are off, or would you rather replace them in 2 or 3 years and do the same job again. Having worked in the shipyard, PM or preventative maintenance is practiced regularly, why replace $400 worth of struts and pay for the labor, when $150 worth of mounts are there for the replacing and will cost the same labor to replace them down the road or worst yet degrade your ride? That falls under the category of penny wise dollar foolish Here is something that will seem excessive, at the same time I replaced the strut mounts AND the springs..... and I will say again, my 96 was amazing on turns, changing lanes, hitting bumps, speed bumps, etc Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjb981 Posted October 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Thanks for all the input. The question is mainly about the rubber part of the strut mount -- I have already decided to replace the bearings, since I know that they are worn. The rubber part enables the strut to pivot slightly during suspension travel, and also insulates the cabin from road noise and vibration. When I changed my rear shocks (because of leaky air suspension), the top shock-mount (somewhat similar to strut mount, but for rear suspension and without bearing) had to come off, and the rubber part inside of it looked fine (and by that I mean no cracks, and the rubber felt soft and pliable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Not sure if there is a sepaate bearing - I looked at the online diagram and from top to bottom were: Mount, Seat, and insulator. It is possible the bearing function occurs between the mount and the seat. Once you have it apart, you can inspect the components to see what if anything is worn out. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 The rubber part is integral to the strut mount and the part that wears and ages. Jim and I consulted when he rebuilt his front end, he was happy with the ride before the job, but stunned at how good it rode after the work was done Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjb981 Posted October 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 The rubber part is integral to the strut mount and the part that wears and ages. Jim and I consulted when he rebuilt his front end, he was happy with the ride before the job, but stunned at how good it rode after the work was done What was changed on Jim's car? My main concern is ride quality (including quietness). The upper strut mount takes a fair amount of the load, and may (my guess) present a rather direct path for road noise to the cabin, since it is situated quite close to the cabin. For that reason, I would like to change it if it could lessen road noise. Don't get me wrong -- my Cadillac is still the quietest car around, even though we have some extremely rough and noisy pavement over here (to provide wear resistance when using studded tires). I am also considering if I should replace some other rubber parts (bushings) when I am at it. Do you have any suggestions on bushing that could be replaced if the suspension is being taken apart anyways (i.e. what should I order)? As always, thanks a bunch all great people on the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 See my car blog "Jim's 1997 ETC" on the Supporter's Cars board for more detail, but, basically, I changed the shocks and struts and all the rubber parts that could be obtained, including strut mounts and spring seats. There is a rubber hood over the strut that I re-used. I also changed my tie-rod ends. My rear knuckles are good, as are the air pump and brake lines. Part Part No. Number Supplier Remarks Strut, Right Front 580116 1 Rock Auto Strut, Left Front 580115 1 Rock Auto Cover boot for strut shock 22136273 2 GM Parts Giant Not Available Strut Mount 22178707 2 GM Parts Direct Suspension Bumper, Front 1634726 2 GM Parts Direct Spring, Front 22197295 2 GM Parts Direct Strut spring seat, L&R 22153148 2 GM Parts Direct Stabilizer Link, Front 25635886 2 GM Parts Direct Shock, Rear (L or R) 580117 2 Rock Auto Spring, Rear 22076935 2 GM Parts Direct Stabilizer bushing, Rear 25662287 2 GM Parts Direct Tie Rod Kit 26021769 2 GM Parts Direct Stabilizer Link, Rear 3537118 2 GM Parts Direct I did NOT change the springs. The reason is that I did not get the tag number and I didn't want problems with ride height, and the ride height is right on specification with the original springs. The front stabilizer links were supposed to be new but I found that I had been charged fro the part and the job but the originals were still in there, and one of them was so worn that you could pull the ball out of the socket with your hand - and the other one was just about there. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Yes, replace the strut rod bushings if ou have them on your year, you may not on the 97, it may be a different lower control arm design. Also consider replacing the stabilizer bar bushings, and check the end links for play Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjb981 Posted October 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 The stabilizer bar links are also being replaced, since there is play in one of them. What is a strut rod bushing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 The strut rod is the link that controls toe-in on the front. I struggled with strut rod bushings for weeks before finding out that the strut rod was redesigned for 1997 and 1996 was the last year they used bushings. The 1997 and later strut rod is designed to be tighter, so the nylon bushings that I was looking for weren't needed - nor is there a place to install them on my car. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 I believe the lower control arm was designed to have two bushings and not one bushing, one bushing requires fore and aft support while two lower control bushings can sufficiently deal with the fore and aft movement. My 96 had a ROD that faced forward with two bushings attaching it to the frame, that changed in 97, thanks Jim Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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