scott y Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 Carla, I realize that you have run 25K on your Eldorado since you bought it,but I have almost 20 years of experience installing aftermarket belt driven accessories. In that time I have seen more than my share of serpentine belt as well as V belt failures, I have found that serpentine belts are the pickiest of them all. One eighth of an inch out of alignment is or can be deadly to it especially over time,heat,etc. Bearings in the idler pulleys that are available aftermarket will probably not be up to the task as a full time replacement let alone if it is even slightly out of alignment. Vbelts on the other hand are a little more forgiving as far as the alignment thing, I would double check the pulley alignment(s) withthe use of a straight edge or a laser. I also realize that there is no load on the idler in place of your compressor but check it out for bearing play anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted December 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 I plan on checking every pulley that belt touches for play, burrs, roughness, or any other abnormalities before installing a new one. From what Carlos (my boyfriend) said, there is quite a lot of coolant on the belt, so I'm starting to think that perhaps the belt wasn't seated and aligned perfectly, coolant got on it and that was all it took to make the belt slip a little to the side and get chewed up. I'm gonna go outside and take a good look at everything in a little while here as I haven't actually SEEN it myself since I wasn't going to go out there at 3am to look. I'll post back my findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted December 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 Well, I've got my findings, and I am PI**ED! I knew I should never have let someone else touch my car! Here's what happened. I went to look at what was going on, and quickly realized that it wasn't coolant everywhere, it's power steering fluid. I'm guessing that it made the belt slip and caused it to get chewed up. Now here's my problem: The line already had a pinhole in it that I had hose clamped OVER a year ago and it HAS NOT leaked since. Not one drop! That is where it's leaking from. But here's the kicker: there is a BRAND NEW hose clamp NEXT to the one I put on it, which says to me that this shop KNEW they messed it up and tried to cover it by adding a clamp to it. They must think I am some kind of stupid that I wouldn't notice a BRIGHT orange hose clamp that wasn't there before. Here's a picture of it. In the red circle is the silver clamp I put there, and you can see the orange one THEY put there. In the blue circle is a chunk of shaved off belt. Now here's where I am worried. By all RIGHTS they should fix this since for one, they re-broke it, and for two, THEY TRIED TO COVER IT UP! They didn't say a word about it at all! But my guess is they can go with "it was already broken and isn't our problem" and get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 If this was my car and my decision, I would Write a very strongly worded letter on the computer, but not print it out. Get another power steering hose and a quart of the proper PS fluid for my car and change the hose. Still, as you say, check every pulley, while wiping them down and cleaning the PS fluid off of them. Put another serpentine belt on the car. Delete the file with the strongly worded letter. Possibly, the next morning, if you think it's a good idea because it would help the garage out, print out the picture you posted and show it to the owner, shop manager or head mechanic at the garage. Never go back to that particular mechanic. Garage, maybe if I had a good reason, but mechanic, no. My thinking is that I wouldn't want that mechanic touching my car again. A steel hose clamp can seal a pinhole in a PS hose, but nothing else can because the pressure levels are too high. Anyone who thought that whatever that red thing is would seal a PS hose isn't qualified to work on my car. And, why pay the markup on the parts? If you change the PS hose and serpentine belt yourself, at least you can have confidence in the job once it's over. All you would get from going back and demanding that they work on your car is acrimony and quite possibly more bad work; but, personal satisfaction or justice? Slim chance. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted December 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 I plan to call and speak to the manager/owner about the situation and see if he is willing to correct it. Of course I will want him to have someone different work on my car if they do. The original mechanic could possibly do something out of spite and I don't want that issue. I'm very frustrated right now. I NEED this car to run and drive as it's the only one I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted December 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 Just got off the phone with the shop. They are making a compromise. We were told to bring the car in the morning. They will replace the belt and power steering line free of charge, but we will have to pay the 25$ for the new line since it did already have a hole in it. They also assured us that the person who is responsible for doing this will not be working on our car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted December 31, 2010 Report Share Posted December 31, 2010 To swerve back to your thread title for a minute, would this be the same shop that installed your "new" starter a year ago?? Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted December 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2010 No Jim, it isn't. Thank goodness! I had personally never used this shop before, but I did this time because it had good recommendations from my in-laws. Next time, I'll stick to what I already know and am familiar with...or do it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted January 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Ok...I got the whole power steering/bad belt thing taken care of. The shop replaced the power steering line, flushed and bled the power steering, replaced the belt, and cleaned the mess the fluid made. They charged 30$ for the new line and power steering fluid. That's reasonable to me. At least they accepted responsibility for it and fixed it. The hose clamp THEY put on loosened up and started rubbing the belt, which was how that got shredded again. THAT is all taken care of. Back to the ORIGINAL problem of this post: twice today the car had the starting problem again, but it was slightly different this time. The first time it didn't start on the first turn, and on the second it DID start, but it started kind of hard...almost as if the starter was slipping. The second time it happened, it started but again felt like the starter was slipping...or that something wasn't engaging properly. It didn't spin over slow and it didn't grind or anything, but it felt like a slip of something.... Due to it actually starting, I didn't have a chance to try putting the shifter into neutral. Could a mis-adjusted or faulty PRNDL switch cause the starter to slip? Is it even POSSIBLE for the starter to slip on this engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Ok...I got the whole power steering/bad belt thing taken care of.Good deal!!Is it even POSSIBLE for the starter to slip on this engine?Anything is possible, but....Sounds to me like you can now focus on a failing starter. HNY Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted January 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 That's what I was afraid of.... How can I determine for certain whether or not it's the starter that's causing the problem? I would really hate to tear the intake off and all to find out that wasn't actually the issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 I could tell you what I would do as a test based on the schematic Warren put in post #12. According to the schematic, it is possible to bypass the ignition switch and the park-neutral safety switch so the only pieces left in the circuit are the starter solenoid and a jumper wire arrangement. But this is not a test I recommend to folks who are not totally at ease working with a "hot" electrical system where all the safety interlocks have been defeated. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted January 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Yeah....I am deathly afraid of electricity. I got bit by a 440v breaker box once, and that was it for me! I won't even disconnect a battery IF I have a choice (but I normally don't). Maybe I could get my brother to do it though. But I wonder how determinate that would be since it's only an intermittent problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 There is no shock hazard in the 12 V section of an automobile. The hazard is allowing the bare end of an unfused wire to accidently connect battery voltage to chassis ground. Much sparking plus immediate intense heat until the wire itself melts and opens the circuit. It's all over in less than one second. If your starter would engage and spin the engine every time you applied the jumper wire, the starter paases the test. Twenty times applying the jumper wire would convince me. However, if the starter did not engage and spin the engine each and every time the jumper was applied, the starter fails (my test). [edit spelling] Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted January 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Ok. I get it now. I still don't think I am brave enough to try it myself. I'm afraid I'll break something. I'm not exactly an electrical genius... I'll get hold of my brother and see if he is up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Ok. I get it now. I still don't think I am brave enough to try it myself. I'm afraid I'll break something. I'm not exactly an electrical genius... I'll get hold of my brother and see if he is up to it. Carla, I agree with JimD on this one. That would be a really good test for the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Could be a bad starter pinion clutch, but they usually screech like a banshee when they fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted January 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Could be a bad starter pinion clutch, but they usually screech like a banshee when they fail. There isn't any screeching. But what is the starter pinion clutch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Another possibility could be starter enable relay. I remember Logan telling it could corrode badly. I would PM Logan. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Could be a bad starter pinion clutch, but they usually screech like a banshee when they fail. There isn't any screeching. But what is the starter pinion clutch? It's explained here better than I can do it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starter_motor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted January 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I had written the battery off as a possibility because the voltage readings seemed good when I checked them with key on and then with the car running. The car had not been driven since yesterday morning until I got in it about an hour ago. When I went to start it, it did start but cranked over very slowly. I checked the voltage once it was running and it was at 13.8 with the headlights on. When I put the car in gear I noticed the lights dimmed for a split second. I went to the store, got what I had to get, then left. When I tried to start it this time, it didn't start. I set the DIC to display voltage, and tried starting it again. The engine turned over slowly but did start, and the voltage dropped to under 7 volts while it was trying to crank over. Once it started though it went back to normal. I'm thinking less that the starter is at fault here...does this sound like a battery related issue? I have already taken apart and cleaned all the cables. The positive cable has stayed good and tight since I wrapped wire around it a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Carla, you need to load test the battery. Do not judge on its condition based on the voltage alone. Any parts store can load test, Advance can diagnose the charging system as well. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Certainly have the battery load tested and have the test done at several different parts stores if possible (not all load test devices are created equal). Try to have the battery fully charged for the test. But hold this thought; a failing starter motor can easily pull enough current from the battery to knock the voltage down to 7 Volts. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted January 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Certainly have the battery load tested and have the test done at several different parts stores if possible (not all load test devices are created equal). Try to have the battery fully charged for the test. But hold this thought; a failing starter motor can easily pull enough current from the battery to knock the voltage down to 7 Volts. Valid point. I hadn't thought of that. My thought turned to the battery because this was the longest the car sat parked and unstarted since I started having this problem, and all of a sudden it's cranking over really hard. I figure it sat long enough for the cold to really have an impact on it. It typically gets driven about 90 miles a day, but with no work and no school it was just chilling in the driveway (no pun intended) for like 36 hours. I'll get in touch with a few parts stores in the morning and see which ones do load tests. There are several nearby so it shouldn't be a problem finding at least 2 of them. I'll post back how that turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaValentine Posted January 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I had the alternator tested today, and the battery tested 3 times. The alternator tested fine. The battery tested fine as long as the car was running, but if the car was off then it failed the load test..all 3 times (3 different places, 3 different testers). I was basically told that the battery isn't quite toast, but it isn't good either and I should replace it asap. I also got new battery cable bolts today...so at least I knew that wasn't a possibility. Looks like it's time to get a new battery! At least it wasn't the alternator or the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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