Head gaskets

[flasht62@fairpoint.net]

i spoke to a fella the other day that makes the Thermatech head gasket sealer from what he told me and from what i know of head gaskets i think he was on the up and up he pretty much says that this problem is a bad engineering thing by cadillac and they are made to fail

he told me he has studied many of these northstars and untill they go out of warranty the fans are made to kick in at 208 then after that they go on at 222 and that the bolts are not coming out of the heads it is mostly a pressure problem in the cooling system that with the thermostat being in the bottom hose it builds pressure that prevents the stat from opening as it should do if it was in the top hose like it should be

they sell a sealer that is waranteed for the life of the car and give you a valve that releases the top hose pressure also and the kit has a money back guaranty if it fails but says they have not had one fail yet

i Think i am going to try it soon

Never did get my wire problem fixed yet still get theft system lights on at times but it does start now at least and at times when they theft system lights are on my headlights and service engine light stays on even with the key out of the ignition

But the dealer has agreed to to fix it this time or at least try to i found a wad of wires under the fuse box that when they are in place this happens when they are pulled out of there it quits

gordon

[BodybyFisher]

Head gasket sealer WILL NOT work on a Northstar head gasket breach. If it works for 12,000 miles, Ill buy you lunch, with summer coming, I doubt it will make 3,000 miles.

The problem is this, a typical head gasket problem is caused by a blow out in the head gasket material between the combustion cylinder and a coolant passage, that breach is usually only a small breach in the head gasket material and the sealer solidifies and will seal the head gasket problem, if only temporarily... you wouldn't catch me depending upon the car anymore....

The Northstar head gasket breach is TOTALLY a different type of breach. The head BOLTS pull out because the block threads are weakened (the cause has been attributed to acidic corrosion). When the bolts pull clamping force is compromised and the head actually MOVES up and down from the combustion. Because it MOVES, NO SEALANT will be able to fix a Northstar head gasket breach.

As to the other ridiculous statements the 'mechanic' made, do you REALLY think that, "its due to bad engineering and they are made to fail"? Made to fail?, do you mean intentionally, right when the warranty expires? Please

The fact that this mechanic BELIEVES that SEALANT will work on the NORTHSTAR means that he doesn't know SH*T about this engine, so to me, anything he says is BS.

Want to waste your money, use the sealant... We have have many members BELIEVE marketing CRAP, over the years and then go against our experience regarding the sealant, ONLY to come back and admit IT DIDN'T WORK

Search the archives

[JimD]

i spoke to a fella the other day that makes the Thermatech head gasket sealer

Do you think he might be a little biased?

from what he told me and from what i know of head gaskets i think he was on the up and up he pretty much says that this problem is a bad engineering thing by cadillac and they are made to fail

Made to fail indeed. What a crock of ....

....untill they go out of warranty the fans are made to kick in at 208 then after that they go on at 222

Another crock.

and that the bolts are not coming out of the heads it is mostly a pressure problem in the cooling system that with the thermostat being in the bottom hose it builds pressure that prevents the stat from opening as it should do if it was in the top hose like it should be

This Thermatech fella is more than a little confused about the engineering behind the thermostat being placed in the water pump inlet rather than the engine outlet to the radiator.

they sell a sealer....

I'll bet they do. Do not walk away from this snake oil; run away from it.

[BodybyFisher]

HA HA HA HA...... Jim you and I posted the same response at the same time, I am telling you, we are connected,

[BodybyFisher]

Let me tell you what bothers me about sealer.

I met someone last night that has a clear head gasket problem. They had decided to use the sealer and sell the car..... While its true that with a head gasket problem the car is worthless, and its difficult if not impossible to sell, disguising it to sell it, is unethical. This has happened over the years, my mom told me that they used to put saw dust in gearboxes

There is always an endless supply of people to be duped

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090117061820AAFfLZ1

Be careful buying these cars

[CarlaValentine]

If I may also add a response to this:

"he told me he has studied many of these northstars and untill they go out of warranty the fans are made to kick in at 208 then after that they go on at 222 and that the bolts are not coming out of the heads it is mostly a pressure problem in the cooling system that with the thermostat being in the bottom hose it builds pressure that prevents the stat from opening as it should do if it was in the top hose like it should be"

If he actually studied so many Northstars, he would be aware that the fans are made to kick in at 225 degrees FROM THE FACTORY. He would also be aware that the thermostat works perfectly fine where it is unless the thermostat itself is bad. And any mechanic who knows anything about cooling systems knows that the thermostat opens based on TEMPERATURE, not PRESSURE.

[JimD]

HA HA HA HA...... Jim you and I posted the same response at the same time, I am telling you, we are connected,

I would enjoy the opportunity to shake your hand and buy your lunch (or ?). But my road trips take me no closer to Long Island than Buffalo.

[BodybyFisher]

HA HA HA HA...... Jim you and I posted the same response at the same time, I am telling you, we are connected,

I would enjoy the opportunity to shake your hand and buy your lunch (or ?). But my road trips take me no closer to Long Island than Buffalo.

Next time you come north let me know, maybe we can arrange a meeting along your route, I'd enjoy that also

[JimD]

Next time you come north let me know, maybe we can arrange a meeting along your route, I'd enjoy that also

It will be after the 4th of July weekend.

[BodybyFisher]

Next time you come north let me know, maybe we can arrange a meeting along your route, I'd enjoy that also

It will be after the 4th of July weekend.

Ill see if I can get my Deville running by then, it will be a challenge

[93SixtySpecial]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, well, maybe I am. BUT, I have a question.

I have a 99 Deville with 232,000 miles, most if not all highway miles. Everything has been documented from when it was purchased. 1 owner car and he did every maintenance by the book, including the coolant flush. I bought the car knowing full aware that the 2000 year was a little better for the bolt design in the heads. Before I purchased it, I used a compustion gas tester to see if the head gasket was bad and it's not. The fluid in the tester didn't change even a litte.

Now, how do I keep it that way? The coolant was flushed about 80,000 miles ago, obviously time for another. What is the best way to flush? Do you use distilled water? Should I be putting anything besides coolant in after I flush (like those GM sealant tabs that the 4.9s took).

Any advice would be great, I want to keep my heads right where they are!

[BodybyFisher]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, well, maybe I am. BUT, I have a question.

I have a 99 Deville with 232,000 miles, most if not all highway miles. Everything has been documented from when it was purchased. 1 owner car and he did every maintenance by the book, including the coolant flush. I bought the car knowing full aware that the 2000 year was a little better for the bolt design in the heads. Before I purchased it, I used a compustion gas tester to see if the head gasket was bad and it's not. The fluid in the tester didn't change even a litte.

Now, how do I keep it that way? The coolant was flushed about 80,000 miles ago, obviously time for another. What is the best way to flush? Do you use distilled water? Should I be putting anything besides coolant in after I flush (like those GM sealant tabs that the 4.9s took).

Any advice would be great, I want to keep my heads right where they are!

Just drain and refill, no need to flush. I would change it now and then every 50K thereafter.

Use the cooling supplement tablets (same as the 4.9)

Use distilled water to make concentration 50/50

At 232,000 she is doing well

[JimD]

....Now, how do I keep it that way? The coolant was flushed about 80,000 miles ago, obviously time for another. What is the best way to flush?

Flushing is for commodes.

The safest surest way to refresh the coolant is to drain as much as possible and refill with your own 50/50 solution of Dexcool and distilled water.

Should I be putting anything besides coolant in after I flush (like those GM sealant tabs that the 4.9s took).

The GM part # tabs are fine. And the exact same material is packaged by Bar's Leaks as a powder in a plastic cylindrical tube for $1.50 at Walmart. Bar's Leak product # G12BP.

Pull the hose off the thermostat housing and dump the powder in the hose. I use two tubes every time I "refresh" my coolant.

[CarlaValentine]

I haven't been able to find the Bar's Leak or the GM stuff. What I DID find is Alumaseal and I was told it is the exact same thing as the Bar's. Does anyone else know if this is true? I don't want to put it in my car without knowing....

[JimD]

I haven't been able to find the Bar's Leak or the GM stuff. What I DID find is Alumaseal and I was told it is the exact same thing as the Bar's. Does anyone else know if this is true? I don't want to put it in my car without knowing....

Throw that Alumaseal at the person who told you it is the "exact same thing" as the Bar's Leak powder.

PM your postal address to me and I will send you as many tubes of Bar's Leaks powder product as you want. I live between two Walmart locations that are 12 miles apart and they both stock the powder.

[93SixtySpecial]

Where is the the drain on the radiators? Obviously they are towards the bottom and I'm guessing driver's side.

Couldn't you technically take the outlet house off the waterpump and have the waterpump pump all the coolant out and just refill?

Thanks for the tips!

[BodybyFisher]

Where is the the drain on the radiators? Obviously they are towards the bottom and I'm guessing driver's side.

Couldn't you technically take the outlet house off the waterpump and have the waterpump pump all the coolant out and just refill?

Thanks for the tips!

There is a petcock on the lower left side of the radiator that is hard to get at. I just remove the lower hose and direct it into a large plastic container

DO NOT put the tablets into the TANK, crush them and put them in the upper hose

[Ranger]

Flash, like everyone said, they guy you spoke to is certainly not going to tell you that the product he sells will not work. Just think about that for a minute. It's obvious he is a snake oil salesmen form what he told you. Save your money.

Special, GM quit using the cooling system supplement. Personally, I won't use it anymore (and I have a qt sized bottle of them sitting on my shelf, but should you decide to, be advised it will not prevent a HG failure nor cure one. It's only purpose it to seal a porous aluminum casting or a niusance leak.

Carla, if you want to use them you are looking for Barsleaks product code HDC (tabs) or G12BP (powder).

[BodybyFisher]

This statement was made by the guru. He was a Northstar Powertrain Engineer. While GM no longer uses the cooling supplement, I believe it is because of complaints they received from customers, confusing the color of the coolant with sludge. When I disassembled my crossover a couple of years ago, I could see where the cooling supplement had infiltrated cracks in the seals. Personally, I use it because the guru condoned its use.

Anyway the guru said this in 2006

The coolant supplement pellets are NOT for corrosion protection. They are NOT for "thickening the coolant" .... whatever that means.

The ARE installed into the cooling systems to seal up any minor coolant leaks or seepage due to gasket imperfections, minor casting porosity, imperfect sealing at hose connections, etc.

In te 4.1/4.5/4.9 engines the coolant supplement pellets are mandatory to guard against any internal coolant leakage into the oil that could go undetected and cause engine damage. In the Northstar Tricky is right, they are just for guarding against incidental coolant seepage to the atmosphere as the chance of internal coolant leakage is virtually non-existent due to the basic engine design.

The GM assembly plants use de-ionized water. This is generally analogous to distilled water in that the de-ionization process removes impurities, minerals, etc. in the water. So, yes, the factory fill was with "distilled" water or it's equivalent.

[CarlaValentine]

Flash, like everyone said, they guy you spoke to is certainly not going to tell you that the product he sells will not work. Just think about that for a minute. It's obvious he is a snake oil salesmen form what he told you. Save your money.

Special, GM quit using the cooling system supplement. Personally, I won't use it anymore (and I have a qt sized bottle of them sitting on my shelf, but should you decide to, be advised it will not prevent a HG failure nor cure one. It's only purpose it to seal a porous aluminum casting or a niusance leak.

Carla, if you want to use them you are looking for Barsleaks product code HDC (tabs) or G12BP (powder).

The only reason I want to put anything in mine at all is because after my accidental coolant change a couple months back (all my coolant spewed out due to the cap not being on right, and it took almost 2 whole gallons to refill it) I have developed a pinhole nuisance leak on my water pump cover/thermostat housing. It leaks just enough to form a tiny pool above the pinhole, but not enough to noticeably decrease the amount of coolant in the car. Since it's not a bad leak, but merely a nuisance, I don't want to tear it apart to replace it if I don't have to.

[KHE]

Flash, like everyone said, they guy you spoke to is certainly not going to tell you that the product he sells will not work. Just think about that for a minute. It's obvious he is a snake oil salesmen form what he told you. Save your money.

Special, GM quit using the cooling system supplement. Personally, I won't use it anymore (and I have a qt sized bottle of them sitting on my shelf, but should you decide to, be advised it will not prevent a HG failure nor cure one. It's only purpose it to seal a porous aluminum casting or a niusance leak.

Carla, if you want to use them you are looking for Barsleaks product code HDC (tabs) or G12BP (powder).

The only reason I want to put anything in mine at all is because after my accidental coolant change a couple months back (all my coolant spewed out due to the cap not being on right, and it took almost 2 whole gallons to refill it) I have developed a pinhole nuisance leak on my water pump cover/thermostat housing. It leaks just enough to form a tiny pool above the pinhole, but not enough to noticeably decrease the amount of coolant in the car. Since it's not a bad leak, but merely a nuisance, I don't want to tear it apart to replace it if I don't have to.

I would drain enough coolant out so the upper (outlet) hose won't spew coolant everywhere when disconnected and add a tube of the Bars Leaks golden seal (Not alumaseal) to the hose, button it up and top off the coolant. That should stop the coolant from leaking out the pinhole in the cover.

[93SixtySpecial]

So about how much coolant can one get out by doing it this way?

[BodybyFisher]

So about how much coolant can one get out by doing it this way?

By doing it what way, disconnecting the bottom hose?

The guru used to say that was all that was needed, it drain the radiato and most of the coolant from the engine

[93SixtySpecial]

Yep, by dropping the lower hose. Must be a few gallons I'm guessing.

[BodybyFisher]

Yep, by dropping the lower hose. Must be a few gallons I'm guessing.

Total cooling system capacity is 12.5 quarts. I believe that a gallon of coolant plus a gallon of distilled water should be enough to refill the system, it is not imperative to get all of the coolant out of the engine.