A/C Freon Leak

[2-Cups]

1997 SLS

I have been fighting a freon issue for a while now, but i'm not in the beast of health to continue anymore. The car is in great shape for a 97, and it is hardly ever drove over 2-3 times a month (85,000 miles on it now), but the A/C keeps leaking the freon out of it. It usually takes about 3-4 weeks to leak down to where the computer shuts down the system (low freon, compressor turned off). Last year I used a leak detector to trace down any seal leaks, and did replace a couple of seals along the firewall (line connection with 2 o-ring seals), and charged the system up again. The following 3 months I didn't drive the car but maybe twice (early on in the time span), but the system once again shut the compressor off because of the low freon again. I checked for leaks again, and noticed it leaking on the line where the low side shrader valve is located, and replaced that line ($137.00 part). I recharged the system once again, but about 2 weeks later.............system shut the compressor off again (low freon). I used the leak detector again, but couldn't find anything other than a very slight leak at the line running across the firewall (2 o-rings replaced before), but it was really barely able to even pick up the leak. I then charged the system up again, and checked the air inside the car (blowing from the vents) and it detected a leak through the A/C vents (but even it seemed minimal really).

I'm thinking that the evaporator core has went bad on me, and I am in no shape to tackle that job (if that's the problem). Is there a way to check this out and be sure that's where the problem is, and if so does anyone have an idea of the cost i'm looking at to change the core out, or repair the core in it? I'm not quite sure of the labor involved in this venture, but i'm sure it's a pain for someone in my condition (heart & back problems have put a halt to my doing much of anything).

Any help and ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Have a great day,

2-Cups

[BodybyFisher]

You can put dye in the system and check the condensate that drips out of the evaporator while the AC is operating, you should be able to detect the leak with the correct equipment.

[2-Cups]

You can put dye in the system and check the condensate that drips out of the evaporator while the AC is operating, you should be able to detect the leak with the correct equipment.

Would it be detecting a leak through the A/C vents if it was anything other than the evaporator core? I'm not at all up to date on A/C systems, but i'm not sure if anything else would send a trace of freon through the vents (minimal as it is). Could the orfice tube or dryer cannister be clogged, and cause this detection through the vents?

When the system is charged, it works great, but it leaks down and shuts the system OFF after a few weeks (even sitting un-used).

[Ranger]

Would it be detecting a leak through the A/C vents if it was anything other than the evaporator core?

Nope. It has to be an evaporator leak.

Could the orfice tube or dryer cannister be clogged, and cause this detection through the vents?

No.

[2-Cups]

Well, being out of shape (as mentioned above), does anyone have a general idea of the price range for the changing out of the evaporator core (at a dealer)? I looked up the Delco evaporator online (around $202.00), but I know it's going to be an adventure to replace the parts & recharge the system.

I don't mind paying for repairs, but I Hate being ripped off. I've heard prices being ranged from $1400-$2,000 parts & labor. I'm just inquiring if anyone has an idea of what it should be for the repairs.

2-Cups

[KHE]

Don't conclude that it is a bad evaporator just yet...

When you test for leaks in the evaporator, you need to run the A/C for a few minutes, then shut it completely off (turn engine off) with the windows closed. Then check for leaks from the center vent with the leak detector. You do NOT want air from the vents blowing over the probe of the leak detector or it will create a false alarm. This is particularly important for a heated diode type leak detector that draws a sample of air and passes it over the sensor. I would hate for you to have the evap. replaced only to discover the system was leaking elsewhere. Have you checked the condenser for leaks? I did not see that mentioned anywhere in your post.

Have you checked the compressor body for leaks? Those compressors were known to have case seals that failed. Easy enough to put dye in the system and run it for awhile and then go over the whole system with a UV light - if you see UV dye glowing on the compressor case, the case seals are shot. Electronic leak detectors will show you where the system is currently leaking but dye will show where is has leaked. Your electronic detector should also be able to detect the leak at the compressor if there is a leak there.

[2-Cups]

Don't conclude that it is a bad evaporator just yet...

When you test for leaks in the evaporator, you need to run the A/C for a few minutes, then shut it completely off (turn engine off) with the windows closed. Then check for leaks from the center vent with the leak detector. You do NOT want air from the vents blowing over the probe of the leak detector or it will create a false alarm. This is particularly important for a heated diode type leak detector that draws a sample of air and passes it over the sensor. I would hate for you to have the evap. replaced only to discover the system was leaking elsewhere. Have you checked the condenser for leaks? I did not see that mentioned anywhere in your post.

Have you checked the compressor body for leaks? Those compressors were known to have case seals that failed. Easy enough to put dye in the system and run it for awhile and then go over the whole system with a UV light - if you see UV dye glowing on the compressor case, the case seals are shot. Electronic leak detectors will show you where the system is currently leaking but dye will show where is has leaked. Your electronic detector should also be able to detect the leak at the compressor if there is a leak there.

Thank you for the response, as I didn't know the correct way to check the evaporator leakage (if any). I only recharged the system, and cranked the car up (A/C running), and stuck the detector inside the air vent (passenger side vent), and noticed a slight detection. I just figured that the evaporator would be the likely culprit.

I did go over the entire system (as much as possible, anyway) with the electronic sensor (including the compressor), and as mentioned earlier, only found a very light detection on the line running across the firewall (connection with the 2 o-ring seals), but I didn't check the condenser (hell, I never even gave it a thought).

I'll run it down to a local mechanic shop here in town, and let them do a system check on the car using the dye, and see what shows up.

Thanks again,

2-Cups

[2-Cups]

"""Have you checked the compressor body for leaks? Those compressors were known to have case seals that failed. Easy enough to put dye in the system and run it for awhile and then go over the whole system with a UV light - if you see UV dye glowing on the compressor case, the case seals are shot. Electronic leak detectors will show you where the system is currently leaking but dye will show where is has leaked. Your electronic detector should also be able to detect the leak at the compressor if there is a leak there. """

I took the car down the my local auto repair shop here in town (Not a Cadillac dealer), and he semi-charged the system, and ran it for a minute. He then told me the compressor bearing was bad, and it needed to be replaced. We then took his leak detector, and went over the system, and finally after shutting the a/c off, chekced inside the car (through the center vent), and he said the evaporator was fine. I did hear a vibrating noise when the compressor was running, so I don't guess he was lying, and if the a/c works after the repairs...............What the hell.

Replacing the compressor, orfice, and re-sealing all seals and o-rings, with a 1 year warranty.....$800.00

If it quits working, leaks out the freon, or has any problems cooling within the year, he'll fix it free of charge. I can't really argue with him, as he's always backed up his work so far.

Have a great day,

2-Cups

[KHE]

The bearing could be replaced for much less than the cost of a new compressor but most shops prefer to change compressors these days. Where was the system leaking refrigerant?

[2-Cups]

The bearing could be replaced for much less than the cost of a new compressor but most shops prefer to change compressors these days. Where was the system leaking refrigerant?

When we (he) went around the system with his detector (alot different than mine) I wasn't sure how to read his. It just had a string of lights on it (mine beeps & lights flicker), and I noticed more lighting around those two o-rings (along the firewall line), but I didn't pay that much attention to the compressor leak check (I've been so focused on the evaporator, everything else is a blur). The compressor made the whining noise (from the bearing) while the a/c was NOT engaged. Reving the engine speed up also increased the bearing noise).The a/c was shut OFF when he stuck the probe in the center vent trying to observe a leak from inside (evaporator), but he said the evaporator was fine. The compressor change will include a new orfice, and i'm guessing a new accumilator as well. I'd hate to think of not changing that, if any particles have gathered up in the system.

At any rate, i've sit here and done the same thing I always do, and that is talked myself into taking the car out to my brother-in-laws for his opinion. We are going to completly charge the system, and go over it one more time with a fine tooth comb, and hopefully clear up any doubts. He is more up to date on a/c than I am, and I figure two opinions are better than one in most cases.

I will repost the results.

Have a great day,

2-Cups

[rek]

Some part numbers here:

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...hl=orifice+tube

Search: orifice tube

[2-Cups]

At any rate, i've sit here and done the same thing I always do, and that is talked myself into taking the car out to my brother-in-laws for his opinion. We are going to completly charge the system, and go over it one more time with a fine tooth comb, and hopefully clear up any doubts. He is more up to date on a/c than I am, and I figure two opinions are better than one in most cases.

I will repost the results.

Have a great day,

2-Cups

Ok,

I took the car out to the brother-in-laws, and we checked everything but the # 8 CD in the trunk changer

Recharged the system, ran it for a few minutes, then shut down. Went over the entire system with the detector, and found that the compressor was leaking. I couldn't really find any other leaks to speak of, but I still think the o-ring connection (along the firewall) has a very small leak.

It really dosen't matter, as the compressor, acumilator, & orfice will be changed tomorrow, along with all the line seals. I checked the evaporator (as best I could) by running the a/c for about five minutes, shutting it down (with the windows up), and used the center vents with the detector. Nothing was picked up, so I ran the system again, shut it down, then turned on the air vent onlly (a/c not engaged), and still picked up no leak detection.

So, I guess i'll know after the repairs tomorrow...........( hopefully there won't be a gunfight at the OK corrall). Afterwords if I can ride down the highway, with Cold A/C blowing on me, and listen to Merle Haggard (# 8 Cd), everything will be fine in life again!

Many thanks, Kudo's, & flowers to all,

2-Cups

[Texas Jim]

Ok,

I took the car out to the brother-in-laws, and we checked everything but the # 8 CD in the trunk changer

So, I guess i'll know after the repairs tomorrow...........( hopefully there won't be a gunfight at the OK corrall). Afterwords if I can ride down the highway, with Cold A/C blowing on me, and listen to Merle Haggard (# 8 Cd), everything will be fine in life again!

Many thanks, Kudo's, & flowers to all,

2-Cups

Let us know how it all turns out.

Which Merle CD is it?

They are all pretty good...but some are better than others.

[2-Cups]

Ok,

I took the car out to the brother-in-laws, and we checked everything but the # 8 CD in the trunk changer

So, I guess i'll know after the repairs tomorrow...........( hopefully there won't be a gunfight at the OK corrall). Afterwords if I can ride down the highway, with Cold A/C blowing on me, and listen to Merle Haggard (# 8 Cd), everything will be fine in life again!

Many thanks, Kudo's, & flowers to all,

2-Cups

Let us know how it all turns out.

Which Merle CD is it?

They are all pretty good...but some are better than others.

I have the entire Merle collection (about 12 Cd's), and about 6 of them are in the changer along with Cash, Brooks & Dunn, and a couple of Gaither Home coming.

2-Cups

[2-Cups]

I found out the repair shop (local mentioned earlier) was planning on using a re-manufactured compressor for the repair. I'm not the sort that cares much for that myself. I've always preferred to spend the extra, and replace with new parts.

So,

I checked around the best I could (ask around, and read local repair reviews online), and located a repair service that seemed to be used alot. I called and discussed my a/c issues with him, and ask me to bring the car over, and he would run a system check, and we would go from there. I did, he did, and he stated that the compressor was leaking, and needed to be replaced. We discussed this, and he plainly stated he would change the compressor with a new (not rebuilt) Delco compressor, new accumilator, new orfice, and new seals (o-rings). $825.00 parts & labor with a 1 year warranty (parts & labor).........We Agreed!

I went back to pick the car up at 2:00 pm (very hot outside), and paid for the repars which was $882.75 (including taxes), and drove the car home (about 20 miles). Everything seemed to work well, although it did appear to take a tad longer than I remember to completely cool the car down, but I figured the temp outside was just contributing to my assessment.

The next day I had to go to my fathers, to take him for a doctor's visit, and while the morning air was cooler, I decided to pop the hood and look at what I paid for (a/c still working, just wanted to look). The first thing I noticed was the accumilator was the exact same one that was on the car (had not been changed). Now i'm sitting here not knowing if any of the paid for repairs were completed, other than the compressor change (which was done).

Is there anyone else on this forum like me..................That is Really Tired Of Being Ripped Off!!

Is this a nationwide problem that has started because of the economic downturn, or are people just thinking that nobody will notice.

I figure it's better to Rant here, than to go over there right now, because I know things will get heated rapidly, and i'm not sure it's worth the trouble (I know what I will do for his A** in a heartbeat).

Anyway, that's the story so far on my a/c repair.

Have a great day everyone, and try to allow others to have a great day as well,

2-Cups

[KHE]

If you are absolutely sure he didn't change the accumulator, I would stop by the shop and ask him why he charged you for the part and did not change it. By law, you are entitled to all parts replaced except for those that are too big/heavy and an accumulator does not fall into that category. He should refund the cost of the accumulator and associated labor if he did not change it in my opinion. I rarely replace an accumulator - the only time is if the compressor self destructs and spews debris into the system. Then again, I rarely replace a compressor - I repair them. Repairing compressors has become a lost art.

The compressors can be re-sealed but finding a shop to do it is almost impossible unless you're in my neighborhood... New seals can be installed in a leaking HR-6/HT-6 compressor for $250.

[2-Cups]

If you are absolutely sure he didn't change the accumulator, I would stop by the shop and ask him why he charged you for the part and did not change it. By law, you are entitled to all parts replaced except for those that are too big/heavy and an accumulator does not fall into that category. He should refund the cost of the accumulator and associated labor if he did not change it in my opinion. I rarely replace an accumulator - the only time is if the compressor self destructs and spews debris into the system. Then again, I rarely replace a compressor - I repair them. Repairing compressors has become a lost art.

The compressors can be re-sealed but finding a shop to do it is almost impossible unless you're in my neighborhood... New seals can be installed in a leaking HR-6/HT-6 compressor for $250.

Whether the accumilator needed replacing or not, isn't the problem for me. It is the idea of discussing the repairs, and agreeing on a price for all parts & labor (which included the accumilator & orfice). The accumilator in the car is the exact same one that was in it, and on the repair receipt it states:

A/C Compressor (R&R)

Accumilator (R&R)

Orfice (R&R)

System Check (Done)

Charges: $825.00 Plus Tax= $882.75

I assume the "R&R" means remove & replace.

As for stopping by and asking him why he didn't replace the accumlilator after we Agreed On Replacing All The Parts.........I had better leave it alone......................Court Cost are high here!

Thanks Again,

2-Cups

[Texas Jim]

Whether the accumilator needed replacing or not, isn't the problem for me. It is the idea of discussing the repairs, and agreeing on a price for all parts & labor (which included the accumilator & orfice). The accumilator in the car is the exact same one that was in it, and on the repair receipt it states:

A/C Compressor (R&R)

Accumilator (R&R)

Orfice (R&R)

System Check (Done)

Charges: $825.00 Plus Tax= $882.75

I assume the "R&R" means remove & replace.

As for stopping by and asking him why he didn't replace the accumlilator after we Agreed On Replacing All The Parts.........I had better leave it alone......................Court Cost are high here!

Thanks Again,

2-Cups

The part about court costs being high...I can relate to that...especially in my younger days.

But it just "AIN'T RIGHT"...when you pay for something and don't get what you pay for.

[BodybyFisher]

Look at your receipt to see if he shows a part number

You are passive

I would be down there after I had a discussion with him about the fact that he was going to replace the accumulator. If he skimped here, do you REALLY thing he didnt skimp someplace else? You think its not cooling good, right? As expensive as freon is these days, you dont think he skimped there and put less in than spec? That is my can of worms for the day.

Next time get it in writing, this is the MAIN reason I do my own work. I think mechanics are a pompous bunch of people who think that they have the public by the balls

[2-Cups]

""The part about court costs being high...I can relate to that...especially in my younger days.

But it just "AIN'T RIGHT"...when you pay for something and don't get what you pay for. ""

That's a fact!

I'm just getting real tired of trying to be fair to everyone, and in return getting shafted by some people.

The very first day of this year should have been a warning about things to come in 2009. New Years Day, a guy knocked on my front door (just under the sign NO SOLICITING) asking me if he could grind up the stumps I had in the back yard. I had recently removed all the pinetrees from the property, and the stumps in the back were still there, because the front yard grinding made a huge mess, and I wanted to look around for a different type grinder. This poor guy was consistant on telling me how much he needed the work, and his family was about to be going without if he couldn't find some kind of income. This is the reason why he said he was out on New Years Day trying to make something while everyone else was taking the holiday off. He actually convinced me of his situation, and even though the stumps were in the back, and out of view (not being of any problem), I decided to let the guy make a few extra dollars for his family. We agreed on a price for each stump, and agreed on how far down to grind, also pushing the chips (grindings) back into the hole.

I can't get around to well being my health limits me to little mobility, so I let him go do his thing. At the end of the day, he came to the door, and I paid him in Cash (knowing the banks were closed, and a check wouldn't help him that day) for the job. I later (about a week) went out and made the trip to the back of the property, and found that around 10-12 stumps were completly left untouched, and quite a few of the stumps that he did work on, were not ground down beneath the surface, leaving about 2 inches above ground, and were covered up with the chippings.

This is the type person I am referring too in my postings above. It's just getting Bad these days when it comes to trusting anyone, and we all know that everyone is not culprits, but it causes so much distrust in every day life.

What is this world coming to. I grew up when your neighbors were real neighbors, and your friends were truley your friends, and you most always got what you paid for.

I think i'm going to ride over to the repair shop Monday morning, and wait until the daily crowd shows up in front, and just tell him outloud, that if he is so broke that he needed to steal from me by not replacing a $25.00 accumilator, i'll just hand him another $100.00 so he can feel much better for the day. He'll have another $100.00 for doing Nothing, but i'll stll be able to sleep at night!!

Put the joke On Him!

Have a great day everyone,

2-Cups