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New rules for automakers


adallak

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This thred was supposed to be rather technical!!!

Oh right... sorry about that...

What do we know for sure?

The S/C NorthStar is already dead since all of the cars that used it are now Disco'ed

The N/A NorthStar is not long for this world since the STS and DTS will be cancelled/replaced within 2 or 3 years

We know the DTS replacement will be built on the same FWD platform as the Lacross... So we can expect the new DTS to be a DI V6 only "midsized" car no more then 300 HP weighing less then 3800 (probably closer to 3500) with a 6 speed (or better) automatic. we can expect some sort of "Battery Assisted Start/Hybrid" system. That car will have no problem getting almost 35 on the highway and probably very close to 30 in the city.

Of course the CAFE thing is an average (that's what the A stands for) so we can expect that some cars will not even come close to these numbers... For every 100 MPG Chevy Volt (or Cadillac Amper) they sell they will be able to sell 2 vettes or 3 CTS-Vs

Fear not the new CAFE... It is not as bad as you think

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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Lol I hate when people try to act like they know more about running the country than the people in office. Trust me theres alot more things to consider than whats being said on CNN. The government has ALOT of things to worry about and when something doesnt seem to make sense to us, they have a reason for doing it. The government has alot of intelligence and top notch people working for them. They have things going on that the public isnt even aware of. Fact is, BUSH left this country in the worse shape EVER, so save your political rants for another forum.

Please don't take this personal, but this is the most ridiculous statement I have seen in 10 years on this forum, CNN?, they are part of the problem, who actually listens to them?

If you can not admit that this country is going through a transition where government is taking control of EVERYTHING, and THAT is a bad thing, then you are dilusional.

And for your information, the current administration DOES NOT have TOP NOTCH people working for them, Geitner?, how about the press secretary deer in the headlights Gibbs?, how about Pelosi?, how about Reid?, how about Napolitano (Janet Napolitano apologized Thursday after some veterans groups were offended by a department report about right-wing extremism)

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Read Jan's comments, we are headed in the wrong direction. We produce NOTHING, our education has been watered down, we export jobs, and NO ONE has addressed this, LETS JUST TAX THE RICH class warfare and demonize corporations is the answer!!!!

We will be a third world country soon

Wow a third world country thats a joke! I guess you would be a better candidate in office huh? Everybody claims they have the answers for fixing the country but the fact is, its alot harder than its seems. I was only using CNN as an example of the news and where a vast majority of the public gets its perception of the country. Why dont u run for mayor or somethng and see how far u get! Are you more qualified than any of the people you mentioned above? Probably not.

Its NOT a matter of qualifications, its a matter of idealology. And NO, I dont think they are qualified, most have never had to meet a payroll. BUT, we DO have more qualified people in this country.

Obama has NO qualifications to be in the position he is in, look at this senate record, he ran the entire time he was a senator.

The fact is, we are going through a change, Greg is correct, even so called republicans are LEFT now, look at McCain, he AGREED with Dems almost as much as that weasle Spector. The Republican party needs to rebuild itself, that is a fact that has been said for over 8 years

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Ok I do see your point. Alot of times the government will do things that seem totally stupid, but alot of times they have alterior motives that we are unaware of. Thats all im saying. When your in a position of power, you informed of alot of top secret information. So alot of times the government cant REALLY say why they do things the way they do.

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Alot of times the government will do things that seem totally stupid, but alot of times they have alterior motives that we are unaware of.

Thats what I am REALLY, REALLY afraid of.

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With a 35 mpg average required, we are going to see small light underpowered vehicles, the Cadillac's of old I believe are going the way of the LP record albums, beepers and typewriters.

So what you are saying is the first year production of the Cadillac Cimmaron was ahead of it's time - or a foreshadowing of Cadillac's future?

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WOW my previous post about the CImmaron seems out of place after this thread took a political turn. :)

As far as the USA turning into a third world country - I found it amusing that my company has a policy now outside the USA. anyond who travels to the USA or Canada is not allowed back into the office in Europe etc. for one week after returning. In other words, they are afraid of catching a disease in the USA and bringing it back home. Now that's a twist.

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With a 35 mpg average required, we are going to see small light underpowered vehicles, the Cadillac's of old I believe are going the way of the LP record albums, beepers and typewriters.

So what you are saying is the first year production of the Cadillac Cimmaron was ahead of it's time - or a foreshadowing of Cadillac's future?

That was a half hearted/false start attempt to produce a fuel efficient Cadillac at a time when their V8 engines were weak and inefficient

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Alot of times the government will do things that seem totally stupid, but alot of times they have alterior motives that we are unaware of.

Thats what I am REALLY, REALLY afraid of.

Afraid? Not me. I'm scared to death.

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Alot of times the government will do things that seem totally stupid, but alot of times they have alterior motives that we are unaware of.

Thats what I am REALLY, REALLY afraid of.

Afraid? Not me. I'm scared to death.

Ditto

Please if anyone really wants to get scared, only if you are into THRILL RIDES, listen to Mark Levin every night from 6 to 9 PM, he is a constitutional expert and attorney. I listen to him streamed on my computer at WABC Radio in new york, see link below. You can also download the shows at www.marklevinshow.com and play them on your IPODS while you are working out, he definately kicks my workouts up a notch. Todays show regarding Chaney's speach and Obamas temper tantrum is covered nicely. Today was a demonstration of the difference between MEN and BOYS between Chaney and the OB Method

http://www.wabcradio.com/article.asp?id=531472

While I may not be qualified to be a Senator, I have only written thousands of appraisals on commercial properties nationwide a few of which were valued in the BILLIONS, I am a conservative, who believes in the constitution, second chances, that the US is GOOD, I believe in our LAWS, I believe in LEGAL IMMIGRATION, I believe in EQUALITY based on HARD WORK and EDUCATION, NOT by AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, I have NEVER owned a SLAVE nor do I think that WORLDWIDE practice was right or moral, but I don't feel guilty or responsible, but some SICK *smurf* has happened in this world including the Holocast. We need to get to the ROOT of our problems NOT create a GIMMIE, LAZY society. Someone once told me, that the US's downfall will be when it gives RIGHTS to EVERY GROUP, CAUSE, ODDITY, etc, and I can see it coming... WE HAVE LAWS, LETS ENFORCE THEM

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Before everyone panics consider that Pres Bush signed a law 2007 that changed several key points about CAFE.

  • First the new standard is an industry standard, not a Corporate standard. The industry as a whole has to hit 39 mpg combined for autos and 30 mpg combined for light trucks.
  • Second any maker that is within 92% of the standard is in compliance!! ( Thus 39 mpg actually equals 35 mpg for autos )
  • Makers that are above the standard can trade and exchange credits with ones more than 8% below the standard.
  • Light trucks equal GVWR's below 10,000 lbs.

As a result GM can continue to make the Corvette, CTS-V, DTS, and Camaro exactly as it is today with no changes and if the company is within 92% of the standard nothing has to be changed.

But as to the specific testing standards and the results here's why 39 mpg is actually 32-33 mpg for autos and why 30 mpg is actually 23-24 mpg for light trucks.

  • When CAFE was instituted in the late 70s the monitoring agency the NHTSA used the EPAs testing data. The NHTSA still uses the raw data from the same 1975 tests.
  • However since that time the EPA has changed its testing system to measure tailpipe emissions to make fuel economy ratings. Now here's the kicker. Since 1975 the EPA has twice discounted it's own data and ratings to make them more realistic ( last discount was in Sept 2007 ). Thus when the 1975 tests are done the Malibu 4cyl gets a raw data value of 38 Highway and 29 City for a combined value of about 32-33 mpg. This is the value used by NHTSA for CAFE.
  • The EPA however discounts those number for the stickers and its website and ends up with 30 Highway / 22 City / 25 Combined.

That's why 25 combined ( EPA ) is actually ~33 mpg ( CAFE ). With no changes at all on the 2009 2.4L 4 speed auto Malibu GM is currently at 85% of the 2016 standard. With a 6 spd tranny and new engine in the next 6 yrs that 4 cyl Malibu is likely well within the 92% threshold. The BAS Malibu is above the standard; an eventual 2-Mode Malibu to compete with the Fusion and Camry and Altima ( and soon Sonata ) hybrids will be WAY above the standard. Notice that Ford's 2009 F150 highway rating is within 2MPG of the 2016 standard... Like the Malibu example above throw in battery assisted start or some sort of hybrid system and Bob's your uncle you have a compliant truck that can tow over 7,000 pounds.

Did you notice that none of the vehicle makers (including Ford) seem all that concerned?

Oh it gets better the new Obama version of the Bush law adds "loop holes" for "home grown" "green" energy... Flex fuel, ethanol, bio diesel, or renewable energy cars and truck can get really terrible mileage and still pass.

relax its not that bad...

caddy.jpg

Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac,

I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back

ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide

Greg

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