valve cover job on 97 DTS gone awry

[insane_goofball]

I did a valve cover job on my landlord's '97 DTS.

I ended up disconnecting the battery.

now, the car will not start.

I tried the keyfob... it locks and unlocks... but won't start, you turn the key... security light comes on.

we charged the battery... the radio works..

the only thing thats messing with me, is one ground I took off of back valve cover (to head) probably a 6 inch wire heavy gauge with eyelets at each end... I'm not sure I have this ground in the correct spot. and it may be 100% of my problem. can anyone send me a nice clear picture of the front right (of engine) or back right )engine compartment) right by the ignition module to try to get an idea where this cable goes ?

[BodybyFisher]

Check the positive cable very closely, take it off, take the connector apart and look for corrosion, the positive cable is known for causing problems.

Does it crank?

Make sure you connected the 12v line to the ignition control module, its under the coils, its possible you left it off.

If those things dont solve it I will have a look at my ground, which side is this ground on that you are talking about the passenger side?

[insane_goofball]

No crank. you can hear relays clicking. I am nursing a major flu, so my wife ran to a cpl dealers, they told her the Security mod is prolly fried on it. $10,000 to fix it... I'm like $10,000 to repair a 1997 DTS with 130k ? lol

I'm not sure on the ground location... it took so long to get it back together I kinda took a guess to where it went.

black valve cover (rear side, or right bank depending on how you look at it)

has the iggy mod/coils mounted at the front.

The ground wire I did not remove, bolts sideways to the tip top of the head, right by P/S pump.

I was not sure on where the other end of the ground went.

I though originally under one of the mount tabs for iggy... then thpough no, in one of these random bolt holes in the valve cover... but then the thought hit me, the valve cover is plastic.

Check the positive cable very closely, take it off, take the connector apart and look for corrosion, the positive cable is known for causing problems.

Does it crank?

Make sure you connected the 12v line to the ignition control module, its under the coils, its possible you left it off.

If those things dont solve it I will have a look at my ground, which side is this ground on that you are talking about the passenger side?

[KHE]

No crank. you can hear relays clicking. I am nursing a major flu, so my wife ran to a cpl dealers, they told her the Security mod is prolly fried on it. $10,000 to fix it... I'm like $10,000 to repair a 1997 DTS with 130k ? lol

I'm not sure on the ground location... it took so long to get it back together I kinda took a guess to where it went.

black valve cover (rear side, or right bank depending on how you look at it)

has the iggy mod/coils mounted at the front.

The ground wire I did not remove, bolts sideways to the tip top of the head, right by P/S pump.

I was not sure on where the other end of the ground went.

I though originally under one of the mount tabs for iggy... then thpough no, in one of these random bolt holes in the valve cover... but then the thought hit me, the valve cover is plastic.

Check the positive cable very closely, take it off, take the connector apart and look for corrosion, the positive cable is known for causing problems.

Does it crank?

Make sure you connected the 12v line to the ignition control module, its under the coils, its possible you left it off.

If those things dont solve it I will have a look at my ground, which side is this ground on that you are talking about the passenger side?

Have you checked the codes? Simultaneously press and hold the OFF and WARMER on the climate control panel and write down any codes that are displayed on the information center. If it is something with the security system, it should set a code.

I think the ground wire by the power steering pump leads to the battery. I would check the positive battery cables at the battery for corrosion - the symptom you describe sure sounds lilke the positive cable to the starter is not making a good connection.

The valve covers are actually cam covers - and they are cast magnesium, not plastic.

$10,000 to replace the security module? That dealer doesn't want to mess with the car so they fed you a line of BS... The computer modules in most modern cars are very durable units. Not to say they never fail but failures are very rare.

[BodybyFisher]

$10000 they are trying to sell a new car given the new car market, what jerks.

[insane_goofball]

that's what they told my wife. she went to several dealers between Toledo and Bowling Green and they all told her similar price... I figure if it needed new PCU www.car-part.com would be the way to go. lol

I am so clogged up from being sick, I can't think clearly.

this ground wire... I assume is an engine or starter ground, one half is mounted to right below valve cover/cam cover

the other end I am not sure on... its only about 4-5 inches long max.so won't reach anywhere really but the ignition module. UNDER the iggy mod there are bolt holes that could possibly be where it goes... or under one of the bolts that holds the iggy mod, on. I wish I had my digi cam the day I took it apart... but, I wasn't thinking.

[insane_goofball]

Battery cable looks fine.

still not 100% sure the ground wire. can't find pix of this part of the engine... even in Chilton manual.

sat in car with key on... security light was not on, only comes on when you press lock or first turn key.

pressed information and off buttons. got nothing popping up.

battery has been charging, so its full.

all I can figure, is either that ground wire... or I have a relay or fuse that popped. I pulled some fused, they looked fine to my eyes.

You turn the key to start... lights go out (all of them) and you hear some clicks under the hood... the kind relays make when turning on. but no cranking whatsoever.

I had forgotten due to my flu... I see now its off warmer... I hit information and off. lol I will have to go back down and try that.

[BodybyFisher]

How sure are you that the battery does not have a dead cell?, and that it can not turn your engine over?

[insane_goofball]

a dead cell is possible, but rather unlikely... this battery is about 1 year old.

and it gave no problems whatsoever up til we tried to restart the car after having battery out, besides that... we were trying to start with a battery charger connected and on.

I'm convinced its that ground... I just have no clue where it could go...

[insane_goofball]

Ok my friends... finally I give you something useful. lol

Codes stored in system retrieved via warmer and off.

IPC B1552

PCM P0603

PZM B1552

PZM B1982

PZM P1558

TCS C1255 (I assume this is trac control, as she had an ABS sensor come disconnected a while back)

did not catch the prefix on this last one...

B0856

[BodybyFisher]

P0603 - Control Module Long Term Memory Reset

B1552 - Keep Alive Memory (KAM) Error

B1558 - BCM EPROM Checksum Error

B1982 - Device Power Circuit High

B0856 - Battery 2 Out of Range This seems to be your problem, have your battery LOAD TESTED, a ONE YEAR OLD battery can be defective, heck a brand new battery can be defective

[insane_goofball]

I have checked that ground wire I didn't know where it went... shows good ground.

I have checked all fuses under hood, including the hidden ones. they all show power (when key in run position)

base of ignition module shows ground.

dealer told me all the codes were from the battery being disconnected, don't worry about them. *shrug*

I probed the positive line to the starter, it shows hot with the key in accessory position.

when you try to crank... all lights go out... but its just hard to figure that a cell coulda died... when it was starting the car last week... and I had a charge box on it, while trying to start it...

the owner of this car was supposed to be in South Carolina until sunday... now he is here TODAY and wants the car...

pressure doesn't help diag work.

I have checked all connection that were undone, all are good. only thing I am not 100% on is that lil ground wire.

I will take the battery up to autozone or somewhere and have them load test it...

the digital dash says 11.9 volts at battery, u try to crank... oit comes back with 11.9 or 11.8

low... but not dropping insane like down to 8 volts like I usually see on dead cell bats...

[BodybyFisher]

I stopped reading when you referenced the dealers opinion on this, either deal with US or deal with the dealer, SOME of your codes ARE INDEEDIE, related to the battery being disconnected but this one is not

B0856 - Battery 2 Out of Range This seems to be your problem, have your battery LOAD TESTED, a ONE YEAR OLD battery can be defective, heck a brand new battery can be defective

LOAD TEST the battery so we have a good starting point!

[insane_goofball]

I guarantee you guys know more than the dealers. lol

I was just lettin' you know what they said. Once I spoke to them, I realized I would have gotten farther speaking to the parts delivery person at Autozone, and would not have had nearly as long of a drive. lol (plus we're missing a cam cover bolt, the owner wanted me to pick one up while I was there, but $15 and a 2 week wait, I am going to go to a junkyard for it.

I took the battery up to tireman (where it was bought) put a load on, and dropped to 8 volts.

So, I got another one... tested good... put it in, same issue...

I pulled the whole cover off of the fuse area, and check all the maxi fuses they all have power, as well as all the mini fuses.

this thing is really baffling me... the only things I am left with idea wise...

#1 when moving the starter wire to remove cam cover... did it accidentally get destroyed where it bolts to the starter?

this car DOES have an intake leak... so it could have weakened the wire connection. I probed the line running down into manifold, when attempting to start, I have juice flowing.

#2 that short funky ground wire. when using a test light, I show a good ground... but is it in the right spot ? I don't think it matters as one part of the cam cover is attached to the rest of the cam cover. But, if it does not attach to cam cover... that could be a problem. (would it help if I took a picture of this area to eliminate confusion ?)

#3 some kind of issue with the passkey factory car alarm, not allowing the car to start. I don't know where the relay for this is, or a fuse to check.

That's all I've got idea wise... can't think of anything else... if it was a crank no start I could go farther with ideas to try... but it doesn't do ANYTHING when trying to start.

P.S sorry about the dealer, I'll stick 100% with you guys on it... just at my wits end... and this guy owns where I live... so if he comes home to a non running car... his temper is well known... I might be homeless... so am just a little paranoid about this thing.

[Texas Jim]

The dash going dark when you go to the START position of the switch may be normal.

Some cars kill all power to EVERYTHING and send all power to the starter when cranking, but I don't have a list of which ones do that.

This is probably a stupid question..but...did you try starting it in "NEUTRAL"?

There is a slight possibility that the NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH is bad or out of adjustment.

[insane_goofball]

no... I did not try that. I will go down there tonight after I gather some more ideas on what to try.

The car is owned by a couple in their 70's and they have been very good about routine maint. on it.

before the cam covers were pulled... the car ran and started normally...

just odd to me, that doin this could cause a cascade effect of so many things going wrong

[KHE]

Here's what we know so far:

1) Engine was starting properly before the cam cover gasket was replaced.

2) Battery was load tested and was bad so a new battery was installed.

3) Unknown connection point for the ground wire toward the rear of the engine.

4) Positive battery cable connections were checked.

Questions:

1) Are the relay clicks you hear under the intake manifold? If so, that is the solenoid making the click. It is important to answer this question explicitly as it will determine the next troubleshooting step.

2) Did you have the intake off/remove the positive cable from the starter.

3) Did you clean between the positive cables? You need to disassemble them - often corrosion occurs between the cable contact surfaces at the battery.

4) Is the mystery ground wire you're referring to attached to the passenger side of the rear head just below the cam cover? If so, the other end enters the main engine wiring harness.

Two remaining items to do:

1) Measure the battery voltage with a voltmeter while attempting to crank the engine. Use a voltmeter, not the display on the dash. You cannot use the display on the dash as it does not react quickly enough. You'll need a helper to do this. Is the battey voltage greater than 9.5 volts while attempting to crank the engine?

2) Post back your findings.

[Ranger]

If you suspect the ground why not try grounding it somewhere else just to test it?

[insane_goofball]

the ground cable is only 6 inches or so long.

as near as I can tell the only place to put it is on the cam cover... just dunno if it bolts directly to the ignition mod or under it, not to it.

[insane_goofball]

Here's what we know so far:

1) Engine was starting properly before the cam cover gasket was replaced.

2) Battery was load tested and was bad so a new battery was installed.

3) Unknown connection point for the ground wire toward the rear of the engine.

4) Positive battery cable connections were checked.

Questions:

1) Are the relay clicks you hear under the intake manifold? If so, that is the solenoid making the click. It is important to answer this question explicitly as it will determine the next troubleshooting step.

Standard plastic sounding relay clicks from fuse panel area.not a metallic sound from deep within the bowels of the engine.

2) Did you have the intake off/remove the positive cable from the starter.

Good lord no... and I pray I don't have to...

3) Did you clean between the positive cables? You need to disassemble them - often corrosion occurs between the cable contact surfaces at the battery.

Took apart then ends and there is not a single dot of corrosion, on either side. matter of fact they both look new.

4) Is the mystery ground wire you're referring to attached to the passenger side of the rear head just below the cam cover? If so, the other end enters the main engine wiring harness.

Passenger side of vehicle. back head. right below the black cam cover. (front of the engine) looks to be appx 6 gauge wire. with eyelets on both ends. the kind for a bolt to go through.

Two remaining items to do:

1) Measure the battery voltage with a voltmeter while attempting to crank the engine. Use a voltmeter, not the display on the dash. You cannot use the display on the dash as it does not react quickly enough. You'll need a helper to do this. Is the battey voltage greater than 9.5 volts while attempting to crank the engine?

it had a dead cell, somehow it was starting the car prior to the repair. so I put a new battery in today and still won't start. all of my tools are locked up at work... so I will HOPEFULLY find a volt meter somewhere around here.

2) Post back your findings.

[KHE]

OK now we're starting to get somewhere.

I checked my car and the ground wire on the rear head, front (accessory belt side) of the engine fastens to the head and the other end goes into the main wire harness. My car is a Seville which may be different than the Deville wiring so someone with a Deville will need to comment.

It sounds like the starter solenoid is not clicking so 1st thing is to make sure the battery if fully charged so there is not any misdiagnosis. Charge the battery and then do the following:

1) Check for codes again and post any that appear.

2) Place the gear selector lever in PARK. Turn the ignition switch to the start position sna observe the SECURITY light - It should light for 5 seconds, then go out. There should NOT be a "Starting disabled" message on the information center. Does the SECURITY light stay on or flash continuously? Is the "Starting Disabled" message displayed?

Post back your findings and we'll go from there.

Actually, I am following page 8A-30-5 and 6 from the factory service manual. Mike, can you scan and post the chart?

[insane_goofball]

Can you send me a pic of the ground wire, and that corner of engine ?

I will take a pic of what I got tomorrow.

the security light stays on as do all lights for right around 5 seconds... then security goes out. and most of the others do as well. I dunno if it means anything, but all accessories work... horn, headlights, radio.

when I turn the key... everything blanks out. when I release... they come back, but no security light.

seeing as how battery was discon again for exchange to tireman... I will get codes again and see what comes up this time.

while down at the garage, someone suggested I place the car in neutral and try to start... should I go ahead and try that while there ? before I come back to post codes ? and give you voltage drop at battery when cranking ?

OK now we're starting to get somewhere.

I checked my car and the ground wire on the rear head, front (accessory belt side) of the engine fastens to the head and the other end goes into the main wire harness. My car is a Seville which may be different than the Deville wiring so someone with a Deville will need to comment.

It sounds like the starter solenoid is not clicking so 1st thing is to make sure the battery if fully charged so there is not any misdiagnosis. Charge the battery and then do the following:

1) Check for codes again and post any that appear.

2) Place the gear selector lever in PARK. Turn the ignition switch to the start position sna observe the SECURITY light - It should light for 5 seconds, then go out. There should NOT be a "Starting disabled" message on the information center. Does the SECURITY light stay on or flash continuously? Is the "Starting Disabled" message displayed?

Post back your findings and we'll go from there.

Actually, I am following page 8A-30-5 and 6 from the factory service manual. Mike, can you scan and post the chart?

[BodybyFisher]

I believe there is a starter relay in the area of the underhood fuse/relay section

[KHE]

Can you send me a pic of the ground wire, and that corner of engine ?

I will take a pic of what I got tomorrow.

while down at the garage, someone suggested I place the car in neutral and try to start... should I go ahead and try that while there ? before I come back to post codes ? and give you voltage drop at battery when cranking ?

OK now we're starting to get somewhere.

I checked my car and the ground wire on the rear head, front (accessory belt side) of the engine fastens to the head and the other end goes into the main wire harness. My car is a Seville which may be different than the Deville wiring so someone with a Deville will need to comment.

It sounds like the starter solenoid is not clicking so 1st thing is to make sure the battery if fully charged so there is not any misdiagnosis. Charge the battery and then do the following:

1) Check for codes again and post any that appear.

2) Place the gear selector lever in PARK. Turn the ignition switch to the start position sna observe the SECURITY light - It should light for 5 seconds, then go out. There should NOT be a "Starting disabled" message on the information center. Does the SECURITY light stay on or flash continuously? Is the "Starting Disabled" message displayed?

Post back your findings and we'll go from there.

Actually, I am following page 8A-30-5 and 6 from the factory service manual. Mike, can you scan and post the chart?

The step to measure the actual battery voltage while cranking assumed the starter solenoid was clicking. Your earlier post said the solenoid under the intake was not clicking so hold off on that check for now.

Try to crank the car while in Neutral - try it also while moving the shift lever and then post any codes.

You load tested the battery and it was OK. You also checked the battery terminals for corrosion and the connections were OK so we'll assume the battery cables are OK.

Is there any chance that you disconnected a small two-pin connector on a wire harness from under the intake along the accessory belt side of the rear cam cover at the main wire harness and forgot to reconnect it?

You need to locate the starter enable relay which is under the hood in forward of the driver's side strut tower - it is under/near the cover with the maxi-fuses, etc. When looking at the relay center, it should be near the lower right of the panel. It has purple, yellow, red, and yellow w/black tracer wires attached to it. Measure the voltage between the purple wire and ground while attempting to crank the engine. The voltage should be 9.5 volts or greater. You'll need to leave the relay connected while checking the voltage.

[insane_goofball]

The step to measure the actual battery voltage while cranking assumed the starter solenoid was clicking. Your earlier post said the solenoid under the intake was not clicking so hold off on that check for now.

I will skip for now

Try to crank the car while in Neutral - try it also while moving the shift lever and then post any codes.

will be done

You load tested the battery and it was OK. You also checked the battery terminals for corrosion and the connections were OK so we'll assume the battery cables are OK.

Tireman load tested, when the first battery dropped to 8 volts, they said its just a little low on charge, I made them give me a new battery

Is there any chance that you disconnected a small two-pin connector on a wire harness from under the intake along the accessory belt side of the rear cam cover at the main wire harness and forgot to reconnect it?

Anything is possible, I will check again to make sure.

You need to locate the starter enable relay which is under the hood in forward of the driver's side strut tower - it is under/near the cover with the maxi-fuses, etc. When looking at the relay center, it should be near the lower right of the panel. It has purple, yellow, red, and yellow w/black tracer wires attached to it. Measure the voltage between the purple wire and ground while attempting to crank the engine. The voltage should be 9.5 volts or greater. You'll need to leave the relay connected while checking the voltage.

I saw that, but have not checked voltage. I will do that also.

I am heading down to the garage in the next few minutes. I will take the pictures, but will only u/l if you need to see them. I will double check the codes and post them too. I will add the PZM and whatnot that I find as well.