hdryder05 Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 05 Deville, 52k, chrome rims(factory), newer tires all matched. I have had the tires balanced 4 times in the last week and aligned yesterday. The shake comes from the passenger side it seems. The passenger seat really gets to shakin between 75-85 on the I state. The dash and wheel really dont move much at all. Any thoughts, ideas, and direction would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jking220 Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 What tires do you have on there? Have you looked into Hunter Road Force balancing? Google it and find the closest shop with one. Its more expensive, but it has helped with the 65-70 shimmy on these caddys. I might try to move the tires around on it and see if you can get the shake to move/change. Jonah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 My experience with shaking, etc. tends to be a worn suspension part. Could be hub bearing, worn tie rod or ball joint, particularly if you hear a popping sound when turning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 There is a slight possibility that one or more of your tires are out of round. I have had this happen to me, and no amount of balancing will correct an out of round tire. You can check this at home by jacking the tire clear of the ground. Supporting the car so it will not fall. Chock the other wheels so the car will not move. Then place a solid object as near to the center of the tread as possible. Slowly rotate the tire and watch for run-out. There should be very little or no visible change in the distance between the tread and the object. Most reputable shops will be able to check for run-out with the tire on the vehicle. Some shops will want to "true" the tire. Truing involves shaving off rubber on the high side. This is cutting the tread down. I always refuse truing and tell them to replace the tire. Good Luck, Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdryder05 Posted July 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Great tips and will look into all! Has anyone heard of or had experience with "Road Force Balancing" ??? I've heard this can lead to finding things wrong with the tire/wheel that regular balancing can't. Thanks, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 MMMMmm. The hard part is finding 4 good tires with low road force. A hard to do in a industry that sells 17 million cars per year. Tire manufacturing is a art. No 2 tires are the same. Wide range of the quality of tires. They may look the same. But they are very different. The best RFB ones go to OEM like GM, Honda, BMW etc. The second best may be GM part # tire replacements. The third best go to tire stores. The forth best would be like Tire Rack. I currently have a set from Tire Rack. Something too, I have been looking at. Rotor balance. It appears rotors have a good chance of being 'out of balance' due to core shift and other issues. I was looking at some new GM factory rotors today. Some had no balancing, some had two finger wide material cut away, others had more. Rotor balancing may be a issue. I would think the China rotors would be shipped as is, with core shift, unbalanced. I have no balance attempt cuts on my China rotors. I am seriously considering taking my rotors to a tire shop, just to see if they come close to being balanced. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jking220 Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Something too, I have been looking at. Rotor balance. It appears rotors have a good chance of being 'out of balance' due to core shift and other issues. Interesting, never thought of this, but its def. possible. I would think the China rotors would be shipped as is, with core shift, unbalanced. I have no balance attempt cuts on my China rotors. I use OEM rotors because I think the material composition is better than China crap, but this is another reason. Jonah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I would consider finding 4 low RFB tires would be the #1 issue. I am looking into rotor balance and how much effect this would create. The China rotors I have, have no balance cuts at all. I also found this. Good picture of a rotor that has been balanced..big chunk of the rotor machined away. On the GM factory rotors I looked at, this cut was as little as 1 1/4 inch wide (2 fins) same depth. See figure #2. <a href="http://www.racingbrake.com/v/main/dynamic_balancing.asp" target="_blank">http://www.racingbrake.com/v/main/dynamic_balancing.asp</a> Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 MMMMmm. The hard part is finding 4 good tires with low road force. A hard to do in a industry that sells 17 million cars per year. Tire manufacturing is a art. No 2 tires are the same. Wide range of the quality of tires. They may look the same. But they are very different. The best RFB ones go to OEM like GM, Honda, BMW etc. The second best may be GM part # tire replacements. The third best go to tire stores. The forth best would be like Tire Rack. I currently have a set from Tire Rack. . Logan, Are you saying that the tire manufacturers road force every tire to determine where it goes? Not doubting your word, but I find that a little labor intensive and hard to imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Absolutely they test for RF. It can be done quickly with out mounting the tire on a wheel. Ever notice the paint marks on tires? GM (as well as anyone who builds cars) is sensitive about the RFB on new cars. They dont have the time to screw around with balance problems. I did a paper in college about tire manufacturing. Making tires is a art. No 2 tires are the same. They measure RF and roundness and ship the best ones to the car manufacturs, the second best to the tire dealers...etc Do the math. 4 tires per vehicle. 1 GM plant will build 1000+ cars per day. Thats 4000+ tires per day for 1 plant. Now imagine that Toyota and the Honda plants are doing the same thing. Based on a GM plant running 250 days per year. Thats 1 million good tires they need every year just for that plant. 1 car plant! 17 million cars sold per year = 64 million tires. That's just new vehicles. So you also have to make more tires for service too. Yeah..all the good ones are sent to the manufacturers..the rejected crappy scraps are the ones that come to us. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Well, thats good to know and tuck away. Hope I remember it when I need tires. I think I saw a sign at my dealer saying that they would match any price. If that is true, I may have to buy from them for the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdryder05 Posted August 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Well last week, I had the tires "Road Force Balanced". Nothing.........notta......nil. The guy said the Road Force is pretty good at finding bad tires/wheels. I did, however, ask him to switch the right front and rear around. Upon doing this we did a test drive and NOW the shake/vib has moved more towards the dash and front. AHH HA I say, so back to the dealer we go, switch-a-roo again and out the door I go. The shimmy/shake/vib SEEMS to have moved back to home base, but for some reason it feels more central now. I'm pretty sure its a tire and HOPEFULLY not a wheel. Since the tires are practially new, I plan on buying a quality matched set and trying them on the front. Amazing how something so simple can turn into something so complex and completely ruin your day(week/month) lol! I have noted the rotor balance issue. I have a friend in a machine shop who will do this. I'm curious as to the out come and will report the results back here. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 So it sounds tome like you've found your bad tire. Get rid of it and your problems will go with it. What were the road force numbers? They didn't tell you did they? They need to be under 10 pounds Forget about that rotor balncing stuff, the effect will be negligeble, that's not what you are feeeling. 68-72 mph ---classic RFB Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdryder05 Posted August 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 So it sounds tome like you've found your bad tire. Get rid of it and your problems will go with it. What were the road force numbers? They didn't tell you did they? They need to be under 10 pounds Forget about that rotor balncing stuff, the effect will be negligeble, that's not what you are feeeling. 68-72 mph ---classic RFB Well the local goodyear dealership is offering me something but I'm not sure. Here it goes....... Assurance tires, mounted and balanced for 120 ea. Anyone have any luck with these? Should I go with the comfort tread?? Thanks, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 When my '02 SLS had the vibration with the OEM Goodyear tires, the Goodyear dealer gave me a set of Assurance Comfort Treads for $50 ea., but that was because I only had 24K on their OEM tires. I was quite happy with the Comfort Treads. Soft, smooth and quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 I'd suggest pressing them for a better discount. The tires are definitly the source of your problem, and they should be able to make them round by now. This has been an ongoing issue with Goodyear and other tire makers for at least 10 years now. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 BTW, your bad tire is now on the right rear, If you replace the fronts, you will accomplish nothing. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Yup, tell them that you would not put another Goodyear tire on your car unless they can give you a better deal. In my case "Goodyear" would do nothing, but the store owner called his distributor and he reduced the price $25 per tire. The store owner in turn matched him for a $50 discount per tire. A new set cost me a little over $200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdryder05 Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 When my '02 SLS had the vibration with the OEM Goodyear tires, the Goodyear dealer gave me a set of Assurance Comfort Treads for $50 ea., but that was because I only had 24K on their OEM tires. I was quite happy with the Comfort Treads. Soft, smooth and quiet. 4 new assurance and guess what that fixed? Nothing! LOL! The car is going back. The tire dealer is going to find the bad tire/wheel by process of elimination. WOW this is fun! K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 At least the ball is in his court! He'll find it. He may have to learn to use that machine correctly first, but he'll eventually find it. Remember to have the tires warm when any type of RF balance is attempted. Flat spotted tires from sitting overnight will give false readings. While I'm on this subject. I am beginning to feel a slight RF vibration in my car, it took about 2000 miles for the tires to get really broken in. I could tell that from the tire pressure sensors too, they've now settled down where I can run 33 cold and they all hit 36 psi hot. Running those new tires a little while might help you in the long run. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdryder05 Posted August 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 When my '02 SLS had the vibration with the OEM Goodyear tires, the Goodyear dealer gave me a set of Assurance Comfort Treads for $50 ea., but that was because I only had 24K on their OEM tires. I was quite happy with the Comfort Treads. Soft, smooth and quiet. Well, new tires on and guess what happened to my shake/shimmy?? That's right! Absolutely nothing! LOL! SO, NOW the tire dealer is going to use process of elimination, and will be starting with removing one wheel/tire and placing a well balanced tire/wheel on and driving. The bad part is he said it could just be the wheel itself. OH boy what a ride this is going to turn out to be. Noticably the shake/shimmy is significantly less volitile, which helps, but still noticable to me. Sooooooooooo here we go again! LOL! K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted August 14, 2008 Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 I mentioned this earlier... The hard part is finding 4 good tires with low road force. A hard to do in a industry that sells 17 million cars per year. Tire manufacturing is a art. No 2 tires are the same. Wide range of the quality of tires. They may look the same. But they are very different. The best RFB ones go to OEM like GM, Honda, BMW etc. The second best may be GM part # tire replacements. The third best go to tire stores. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 The bad part is he said it could just be the wheel itself. If he knew what he was doing, the first go-round with the Hunter machine would have identified the bad wheel immediately. I'm starting to wonder if this guy knows what he's doing. Sounds like the old "tire man dance" to me. You know, the one where you go "round and "round . Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 My next car maybe. Pontiac GTO. Wait 60 days you'll be able to find some very nice cars for nothing if gas stays at $4. If gas is a non-issue. Read more.. Went to Cul-de-sac block party last nite. WTF...someone has a GTO. 2006. Ask if I can test drive , sure. Corvette engine in it. Get over 50, steering wheel was shaking all over the place. BS..Tire issue. I also had forgotten the RWD feel. Also the rear end noise with RWD..sounded like a bearing was going bad. 2006 GTO, 13k mile car. $19k. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Also the rear end noise with RWD..sounded like a bearing was going bad. What is with the rear-end noise in today's RWD cars? The only noise I notice in my '93 Fleetwood (RWD) is a slight coast-down noise and that is barely audible. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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