djazzmo Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 I have always been the type of person who thought gas was gas but I learned something this weekend. I took a weekend trip in my STS that was about 180 miles each way. Before leaving I filled up at my local Sam's club gas station. They usually beat all the local prices by as much as $.10 per gallon. Not a lot of money but it adds up. I filled up with the 91 octane. I was disappointed to find that I only got about 17.5 miles per gallon for mostly freeway driving. After riding around all weekend I was almost on empty. For the return trip I filled up with BP 89 octane. It was about the same price as the 91 octane. On the return trip I got 24.5 miles per gallon which is about what I expected. I didn't think I would see such a dramatic difference between the different brands of gas. I just filled up with another tank of the BP so I can compare my mileage around town. Has anyone else had this experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey-Rome Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 Yeh...but I only use Shell or Chevron. I used to wonder why I get better milege one way than the other on a long trip...the I realized there's more uphills one way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill K Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 Depends on if your going UP north or DOWN south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 I have always been the type of person who thought gas was gas but I learned something this weekend. I took a weekend trip in my STS that was about 180 miles each way. Before leaving I filled up at my local Sam's club gas station. They usually beat all the local prices by as much as $.10 per gallon. Not a lot of money but it adds up. I filled up with the 91 octane. I was disappointed to find that I only got about 17.5 miles per gallon for mostly freeway driving. After riding around all weekend I was almost on empty. For the return trip I filled up with BP 89 octane. It was about the same price as the 91 octane. On the return trip I got 24.5 miles per gallon which is about what I expected. I didn't think I would see such a dramatic difference between the different brands of gas. I just filled up with another tank of the BP so I can compare my mileage around town. Has anyone else had this experience? I've used BP and I stopped. It burns up too fast. I get no mileage out of it at all. The New Jersey Bergen Record has an article that included a few things from exploding cell phones to a few paragraphs regarding brand vs. non-brand gasoline: http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=e...UVFeXk2NTEzMDI0 To quote the section of the article that covers brand vs. non-brand gasoline: Brand or non-brand? Anyone serious about protecting his car's engine in this era of rising gasoline prices can appreciate John Kashickey's question. The Park Ridge man says he can save as much as $5 a tank by switching from a name-brand gas to one of the three off-brand stations in his town. Should he do it? Representatives of Exxon Mobil, the American Petroleum Institute, and the New Jersey GasolineRetailers Association agreed that additives and detergents in branded gasolines were likely to be more consistent than those of non-branded gasolines. But none would say a branded gas was far superior. It's important to understand that none of the blends distributed in the United States may legally slip below the quality specifications set by ASTM, a standards group once known as the American Society for Testing and Materials. "You're paying for the expertise and extensive research and development that went into brand-name gas," said API spokeswoman Susan Hahn. Bill Dressler, president of the gas retailers, said the difference in quality is small but distinct. "You're not taking much of a chance with the off-brands," Dressler said, "but the quality might not be the same as what your car is used to." Personally, I see or feel no difference between Brand and non-Brand, except for BP, which seems to disappear into thin air with little effort and costs waaaaaaaay more than all the other fuels out there. As of today, BP premium was $2.02 9/10 per gallon here in Northern New Jersey but I filled up with Delta premium for $1.89 9/10 and the car runs fine and no codes are being set. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Today I spent $2.35 for premium at EXXON on LONG ISLAND.... OUCH!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 I too am a firm believer that "gas is gas". I have no allegiance to any brand and always buy from whoever has the best price. I am far from an expert on gasoline so I would never argue that one brand MIGHT give a bit better milage than the next, but 8 MPG, NO WAY. There had to be some other factors in play. A good stiff headwind for example can make a big difference. I drive mostly highway and average 22 (winter) and 24-25 (summer) but I can watch that take a dive if I have real strong headwinds. It will be even more pronounced if you reset it just prior to leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Marika, what the Reps from Exxon and Mobil were saying MIGHT be true, if there was an Exxon or Mobil refinery in NJ. I don't think that there is. Most of the gasoline you are getting is probably refined in Aruba or Venezuela, so you can throw most of that commentary out the window. There has not been a new refinery built in the U.S. for a VERY long time. This is due to the strict environmental regulations that must be met in the states. It would be like putting a BIG catalytic converter on a whole plant. You think gas is expensive now? Just think what it would cost if you had to pay to build a refinery from the ground up! Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey-Rome Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Paid $2.50 for premium today... But at the same time I'm hoping regular will hit $3.00 for about a month so I can get a good deal on a Caddy. I figured it'll give me more bargaining room, and some people just might want to try and get rid of their V8s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaddyChris Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 I would never hope for higher gas prices, although, I see your point. Christopher Petro 94 sts 67 coupe de Ville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Paid $2.50 for premium today... But at the same time I'm hoping regular will hit $3.00 So is opec. Then we will think $2.50 is a bargain. Bite your tongue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac-etc Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Back to the original post, is it possible, that your point of origination was at a lower altitude than you destination? Depends on a lot of things of course such as distance and wind speed/direction, but if the one was predominately up and the other was predominately down, well .... if you do the same trip again, try reversing the brands of gas ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg P. Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 I was disappointed to find that I only got about 17.5 miles per gallon for mostly freeway driving. On the return trip I got 24.5 miles per gallon which is about what I expected. I didn't think I would see such a dramatic difference between the different brands of gas. I just filled up with another tank of the BP so I can compare my mileage around town. Has anyone else had this experience? Something's fishy here. That's a pretty dramatic change in mileage. I personally doubt it's due to the brand of gasoline that you are using. I'm guessing its purely coincidental. I have used every kind of gas under the sun and never noticed anything like you are describing. the 17.5 number sounds pretty typical for a mix of local and highway driving. That would make sense if you drove around locally once you got to your destination. the 24.5 number is pretty darn good. I don't think I ever got that good mileage on either of my STS's. 23 was about the best I ever got over a long trip. Weather, traffic, tire pressure, weight and especially driving habits will all add variables to the equation. I have found that I get my best gas mileage when I am paying attention to my gas milelage and adjust my driving habits accordingly. I have also found I can get slightly better mileage with the cruise control off. What are you using to determine your mileage? The DIC? Did you reset the AVG MPG at the beginning and end of each trip? Or did you use the miles driven divided by the quantity of gas added? In any case, there would be no way to know for sure unless you did a more controlled scientific type of study. Try doing the exact same trip 10 times taking the extra effort to eliminate all other variables. Then you'd have something. It is an interesting question though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Marika, what the Reps from Exxon and Mobil were saying MIGHT be true, if there was an Exxon or Mobil refinery in NJ. I don't think that there is. Most of the gasoline you are getting is probably refined in Aruba or Venezuela, so you can throw most of that commentary out the window. There has not been a new refinery built in the U.S. for a VERY long time. This is due to the strict environmental regulations that must be met in the states. It would be like putting a BIG catalytic converter on a whole plant. You think gas is expensive now? Just think what it would cost if you had to pay to build a refinery from the ground up! Actually, Port Elizabeth, New Jersey IS the main reason why gas is still so low in New Jersey. It's a refinery and all the trucks load up there to take the gas to the stations. The truck drivers tell me it's all the same gas that comes out of one pipeline, it's the additives that make the different name and non-name brands. There are other refineries located in New Jersey as well but they are not producing at the capacity that's found in Port Elizabeth. I remember years ago when they had an explosion there. I was living not too far from the site in Jersey City. The blast blew out every single window in my apartment. Took days to clean up the mess. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djazzmo Posted May 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Just wanted to clarify a few things... I checked my mileage from the DIC. I reset the mileage at every fill up just out of habit. My trip was through Indiana and southern Illinois. Pretty consistant altitude. I can't say much about the wind but I didn't notice much difference either way. One thing I have to admit is that I did punch it up to about 110 a couple times on the way just for fun but I still don't think my average mph was much diffent over the entire distance. I am about a quarter through a new tank of BP midgrade for my normal driving. I am running about 17.5 so far which is normal for me. It may be my imagination but I seem to running a wee bit smoother. Oh another thing I just thought of. I added some Lucas oil prior to leaving on the trip. Don't know if that is important. Boy these cars are fun on a road trip at any mileage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Today I spent $2.35 for premium at EXXON on LONG ISLAND.... OUCH!! Mike ohhhhhhhhhh, Mike!!! I feel your pain. It's really out of control these prices and it's only going to get worse. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 With all the talk of high prices, shattering all records, I've really gotten irritated with the media, for jumping on the bandwagon of complaining about high prices. My local news station, which has always annoyed me with their "gas prices shattered the record again today" headlines, actually put things into perspective the other night, much to my pleasure. They actually said, "however, adjusted for inflation, gas prices today are far cheaper than they have been in the past." Thank you, WRAL. Thank you for actually using some common sense and pointing out that while we're in a spell of gas prices that is suddenly "ending the world" (did you hear about that trucker strike, that claims they can't make money at these prices?), that prices actually aren't as high as they have been (far from it) and that maybe, just maybe, we can move on with our lives and concentrate our attention to stuff that matters. People have paid $2.50-3.00/gallon for milk for YEARS. Milk -- it goes on cereal and gives you some calcium. Mix it with some powder and you get chocolate milk. Must be magic right? But all of a sudden, a gallon of gasoline (which has the energy to move you and your 4000-lb beast 20 miles or more), whose average price is starting to inch up towards $2/gallon, is all of a sudden an emergency. Get real! Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Well, thank you for that jadcock, in fact has anyone checked the price of Evian water lately? Or Scope, or Nyquil? Anyway, Marika, enlighten us, who operates/owns the refineries you speak of? Where is their crude coming from? How many of those tankers you see coming in to port or pumping off beyond the 10 mile limit that you don't see, have crude and how many have finished product? In a word, who imports the best gas? Actually, that's what I do for a living. I run the place that "all the trucks load up" at. I have control of the quality of gasoline offered by my company and I take this responsibility very seriously. I know the differences in gasoline, and if you would like an opinion that's as close to reality as your gonna get, listen to Larry Gondolfo. The supply is VERY geographically oriented. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rllovett Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Very useful to look at the INFLATION-ADJUSTED price of gas before deciding that the sky is falling...and be glad you're not driving a Hummer/Suburban/Viper/etc. To us old timers, anything over about 17 is pretty good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac-etc Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 welllll, I can't say much about the wind but I didn't notice much difference either way. One thing I have to admit is that I did punch it up to about 110 a couple times on the way just for fun but I still don't think my average mph was much diffent over the entire distance. I think that can make a bigger difference that it sounds. I was driving cross country in my 95 etc a couple of yrs ago, Fairfax Va to the bay area, 60 hrs elapsed, 42 driving. I70 to denver, turn right, hit 80 in Wy, turn left. Stopped for naps, spent 1 night in a motel. After passing the great salt lake, i had enough gas left to make it to nevada. Didn't realize that there would be nearly 0 gas stations over that portion. A while after the lake I needed a few z's, so i got off i80 on a random exit, drove a mile or 2 then was confronted with a deslolate 2 lane below me that went to the horizon (neither Road Runner nor Wile E. Coyote were in sight, but this was their stomping grounds!). Who could resist a top speed check???? WHO (on this board?). Well, I nailed it and kept checking the speed and triple digits came up in seconds (even rather loaded - uhhh the car, not me). Anyway at 125 I could not keep glancing at the speedometer cause the road was getting real narrow and I could not take my eye off of it ( not literally narrow, it was the speed). So, if I could not see how fast I was going, no need to keep at it. So, i coasted to a stop and had a lovely peaceful rest. Sooo, back to I80 and no longer had enough gas, that short speed run made a big difference. I knew I was going to run out, so I drove slower while watching the inst mileage constantly to get the highest mpg and when an 18 wheeler went past I noticed that it rose significantly. So, i set myself behind a truck that had just unloaded pigs, and rode that thing till it started to sputter (for lack of gas, not the smell!). I steered left and right to move any remaining gas to the fuel pump intake and that got me a few more miles, but it finally gave out and I made it to within 2 miles of the Bonneville salt flats exit. Got out and walked (a kind soul actually stopped for me btw), bought a plastic container (at a place that Craig Breedlove and others had been) and walked back. I guess the moral is, that even a short 'romp' to triple digits will likely make a big difference in fuel consumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 People have paid $2.50-3.00/gallon for milk for YEARS. Don't you think that if we used as much milk as we do gas that we would *smurf* about the price of that also? The fact is that most of us never go through more than a gallon of milk in a week or two but most of us use 10-20+ gallons of gas per week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Well, thank you for that jadcock, in fact has anyone checked the price of Evian water lately? Or Scope, or Nyquil? Anyway, Marika, enlighten us, who operates/owns the refineries you speak of? Where is their crude coming from? How many of those tankers you see coming in to port or pumping off beyond the 10 mile limit that you don't see, have crude and how many have finished product? In a word, who imports the best gas? Actually, that's what I do for a living. I run the place that "all the trucks load up" at. I have control of the quality of gasoline offered by my company and I take this responsibility very seriously. I know the differences in gasoline, and if you would like an opinion that's as close to reality as your gonna get, listen to Larry Gondolfo. The supply is VERY geographically oriented. Actually, the "best oil" is found in Iraq. Who owns the refineries at Port Elizabeth, I'm not sure. I know ExxonMobil does not, I believe Valerio is one of the owners and Amerada-Hess is another. I think there are four or five total owners for the Port Elizabeth site. I'm not sure about the other sites scattered around "super fund" New Jersey. I'm sure I could search and find them although I've noticed that a lot of information regarding refineries and their locations has been removed from the Internet, post-9/11. Putting prices into a different light, people buy a bottle of Scope or Nyquil and use the product up in about 1 months' time (more or less). Gas, on the other hand, gets used up more quickly and that's really why people notice that gas is costing them much more. The "average" driver is spending about $80/month on gas. The "average" Scope or Nyquil user is spending about $4/month. Same with detergent, a gallon of Tide might cost you $14 BUT you certainly won't use it up as quickly as a gallon of gas that's running at about $2 average. The manufacturers can certainly figure out "on average" how long their product will last and this too, is part of the formula used to determine pricing. Even supermarkets, using computers, keep track of how long items remain on their shelves and pricing is adjusted accordingly. Product manufacturers have to pay supermarkets to put their items on the shelves. In the end, the consumer pays for all of this. I agree, gasoline is still a bargain when you consider what you are getting out of it but I think people "feel" it's financial effects are more pronounced because they simply have to replace it more often. Additionally, the "average" paycheck rose about 1~2% in the last year while the price of gas, while not outpacing inflation, yet, has certainly outpaced almost everyone's paycheck. On top of this, the prices at the supermarkets for all items are starting to rise with the increase in the gas prices, so consumers, who are mostly in debt up to their eyeballs anyway, strapped for cash and realizing that they are TOTALLY dependant on their cars, are recognizing the prices of gas as the real problem, even if it's not the entire problem and only a part of the total equation. It sticks out like a sore thumb. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 People have paid $2.50-3.00/gallon for milk for YEARS. Don't you think that if we used as much milk as we do gas that we would *smurf* about the price of that also? The fact is that most of us never go through more than a gallon of milk in a week or two but most of us use 10-20+ gallons of gas per week. Well, I agree with you but I personally am a very big milk drinker and I got through a gallon every two days so yes, I feel that pinch also since milk was $2.99/gallon yesterday and today, it's $3.49/gallon. OUCH! If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Don't you think that if we used as much milk as we do gas that we would *smurf* about the price of that also? Probably. I just get tired at people and the media complaining about anything and everything, and the recent gas prices are their scapegoat to sell more news. I guess I just think there are much more important fish to fry than running a 5-minute story on the cheapest gas station in town today. Milk is my favorite example, but sure, you can throw in a bunch of others. Don't get me started on cigarettes. People have those camera phones with text messaging and Internet surfing and think nothing of an extra $50/month to have those niceties, but an extra $20-30/month for gas -- no way! It's easy to bag a lunch and take it to work, but folks think nothing of spending $5-7 dollars each day on fast food. But raise the price of gas, and all of a sudden, the sky falls down. It's just the media scapegoating it to sell more airtime. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmurph Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 For me it is not the fact that gas is at an unreasonable price (compared to 15 20 years ago) it is more the fact that the price has increased almost 100% in the last couple of years. That has changed my $1700.00 a year to $3400.00 a year in a very short period of time. Much more then 30 bucks a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike5514 Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 Gas/oil is a life blood of this country when it goes up so do a lot of related things and effects us all. the oil in the ground has not incresed in price in eons, the cost of bringing it to the gas station changes for the obvious reasons. Not too long ago it was 10.00 a barrel today it is over 40 quite a increase! if that dont cause concern your in a select group. I dont know who is making the 30.00 a barrel differance but I do know its not me. And yes oil is not milk. MIKE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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