Cheap Gas vs BP

[Marika]

According to gasbuddy.com, here's how the prices have risen over the past year in New Jersey and nationally:

Unleaded Gasoline

Average Prices......New Jersey.................USA

Today...................1.900.........................1.999

Yesterday..............1.879.........................1.993

One Week Ago.......1.792.........................1.927

One Month Ago.......1.644........................1.808

One Year Ago.........1.432........................1.501

Jumping from $1.432 to $1.900 in one year represents an increase of about 33% per gallon. NOTHING has gone up that much in this country, not even the value of real estate.

This means, if I filled up with 18 gallons one year ago, it cost me an average of $25.776. On a monthly basis, one year ago I was paying $103.104. Yearly cost: $1,237.248 Today, that same fill up would cost me $34.20; on a monthly basis, $136.80 and the yearly cost: $1,641.60 which represents a yearly increase of $404.352.

Now, let's look at the paycheck: AFTER TAXES, my net increase over last year was $10 per week. My landlord raised my rent $40 per month (which represents a 5% increase) so I walk away with a net gain of ZERO. My telephone bill has gone up by $9 a month, my electric bill has not yet gone up, my Internet connection still costs the same and clothing is not an issue since I'm not your typical female who loves to go shopping, I actually hate it. My health insurance costs have remained the same as well, however, they have risen by about $100/month for my employer who graciously foots the entire bill, but can write off most of it on his taxes. I use prepaid cellular services which cost me about $140 for the entire year so that's not an issue with me either. Food is starting to climb so that will become an issue for me very soon. Milk has gone from $2.99/gallon to $3.49/gallon and since I drink about 3 1/2 gallons a week, this represents an increase of about $1.75/week, ($7.00/month; $84/year) assuming the prices don't continue to climb any higher. I don't spend money on hair dressers or makeup or nail salons so this not an issue either. I spend money on car care, both maintenance and cosmetic but those prices are holding steady, so far. Basically, upon looking at the entire picture, the ONLY issue that's really hurting people like me is the price of gas and how it's climbed up so high, and so quickly in relation to everything else. It's "sticker shock" basically and people notice it and are complaining. Just imagine how high the price of gas would climb if people didn't complain.

[SteveJ]

When they add methanol to the gas you loose 10% mileage right there and they are very circumspect about stating they have done it.

Anybody travel from the east coast to the mid west and back? Always worse gas mileage comming back due to gasohol despite the favorable prevailing winds.

My belief is that major brands are less likely to do it in the east.

[JohnnyG]

And finally, did anyone ever see an Amerada-Hess gas station? Or a Valero? Maybe Valero out west. Point being, where do you think all that gas goes that they make? I'll tell you where, to an Exxon or BP station, among others.

[KenD]

Be thankful you don't live in Europe. It's a heck of alot more expensive there.

[Marika]

And finally, did anyone ever see an Amerada-Hess gas station? Or a Valero? Maybe Valero out west. Point being, where do you think all that gas goes that they make? I'll tell you where, to an Exxon or BP station, among others.

There are PLENTY of Hess and Valerio stations here on the east coast. Funny too, Valerio is very expensive. Their prices are as wicked as ExxonMobil and BP. I never buy their fuel.

[Marika]

Be thankful you don't live in Europe. It's a heck of alot more expensive there.

True, but in most of Europe, people also don't need cars because they have at least some form of public transportation to get them around. Here in the US, with the exception of certain parts of California and New York, most of the states either have a rudementary form of public transportation, or they have unreliable, scant or totally nonexistant public transportation like here in New Jersey. New Jersey has blown literally billions of dollars building and maintaining highways all over the place and yet their bus system is the worst and with the exception of Newark, there is almost no light rail system anywhere in the state. If you don't have a car in New Jersey, you're pretty much screwed. It's one of the main reasons I want to move back to New York City again, buses and trains everywhere, you don't need a car.

People in most places in America are STUCK having to depend on their cars to get around, they have no other choice which is why the gas prices going up so much are looked upon as literally "highway robbery".

And while gas is more expensive in Europe, cars are actually cheaper so I guess it works out in the long run.

[Marika]

So is opec. Then we will think $2.50 is a bargain. Bite your tongue!

It's not entirely the fault of OPEC. Everyone around the world pays the same price per barrel of oil that we pay. The differences in the prices around the world has to do with FUEL TAXES, from both the Feds and the states.

Oil, just hit $41 a barrel and yet that barrel of oil, once refined, won't hit the gas pumps for at least another four weeks. I read an article in the Washington Post this morning that pointed this out. So why are prices rising at such an insane rate? Months ago, prices were rising at the rate of 2~3 cents per gallon. Now, they're jumping at almost 10 cents a gallon and sometimes, literally within HOURS. It's the TAXES. Prices are rising because the Feds and the states NEED more money and this is one of the many clever ways they increase their income without having to take it DIRECTLY from your paycheck.

Here in New Jersey, the governor wanted to increase the fuel taxes and everyone went into an uproar over it so the governor backed off. But low and behold, within weeks, the prices at the pump started to rise anyway so the governor got what he wanted, WITHOUT angering the citizens directly at him. BLAME OPEC, says the governor. I say, blame the governor and the feds because they are the REAL reason why prices are rising at the pump.

TAXES. TAXES, TAXES. It's the REAL reason for the fuel cost increase.

[JasonA]

People in most places in America are STUCK having to depend on their cars to get around, they have no other choice which is why the gas prices going up so much are looked upon as literally "highway robbery".

True, but people aren't stuck to driving 10 mpg H2s or Suburbans or whatever the SUV du jour is. If they don't want to get screwed by OPEC or the government, or whomever they claim is behind the prices, I wish they'd do something about it rather than bellyache. Go get a Honda Civic Hybrid or a Toyota Prius. Or go get a TDI Jetta (or any diesel vehicle) and run B100 in it. No reliance on petroleum at all!

Most cities in North Carolina (where I live, and where my news comes from) have a sufficient bus system. On Fort Bragg (where I work), we even implemented a FREE shuttle service that goes around Fort Bragg and even goes into Fayetteville to Cross Creek mall, so soldiers can shop and take care of their business. But we can't get 'em to ride it! They'd rather drive their Escalades around with their 22s looking cool...but at the same time, they're doing an interview with a local news station, standing in line waiting to fill up, complaining about the price of gas. It's complete double talk!

That's where a lot of my frustration comes from, and I realize that others in this country and around the world may not have good forms of public transportation. But I think we've made a good effort to provide one (FREE at that), and they STILL won't ride it. Americans just love driving, that's all there is to it. I don't think much will stem our love of driving our own cars.

I think it's simple -- we Americans have what we want. We like big gas-guzzling SUVs, so we have 'em. If we really wanted to save money on gas, we'd have Hybrid Civics or something similar. But we don't -- we like buying Escalades and putting dubs on them, so we do. And there's nothing wrong with that at all -- but those are the same people that get interviewed while waiting in line to get gas, and they're actually complaining about gas prices, standing in front of their 12 mpg SUV.

I do think it's ironic, how much Americans bellyache about the price of gas here, where in most of Europe, folks are paying double what we are. I'm sure that's what's also encouraged their use of diesel engines and I look forward to the day when diesels are available in normal cars here. I'd buy a Cadillac with a Duramax in a second. I like that new TDI V-10 Toureg. 0-60 in the low 6-second range! Granted, that's a V-10 with 500 lbs of torque, but imagine what they could do if they tuned a 5.0 liter diesel V-8 for street car use (rather than truck or SUV use) and planted it in a Deville. I think it'd be great, but diesels have a reputation in this country that I think will be hard to overcome.

[Marika]

True, but people aren't stuck to driving 10 mpg H2s or Suburbans or whatever the SUV du jour is. If they don't want to get screwed by OPEC or the government, or whomever they claim is behind the prices, I wish they'd do something about it rather than bellyache. Go get a Honda Civic Hybrid or a Toyota Prius. Or go get a TDI Jetta (or any diesel vehicle) and run B100 in it. No reliance on petroleum at all!

Most cities in North Carolina (where I live, and where my news comes from) have a sufficient bus system. On Fort Bragg (where I work), we even implemented a FREE shuttle service that goes around Fort Bragg and even goes into Fayetteville to Cross Creek mall, so soldiers can shop and take care of their business. But we can't get 'em to ride it! They'd rather drive their Escalades around with their 22s looking cool...but at the same time, they're doing an interview with a local news station, standing in line waiting to fill up, complaining about the price of gas. It's complete double talk!

That's where a lot of my frustration comes from, and I realize that others in this country and around the world may not have good forms of public transportation. But I think we've made a good effort to provide one (FREE at that), and they STILL won't ride it. Americans just love driving, that's all there is to it. I don't think much will stem our love of driving our own cars.

I do think it's ironic, how much Americans bellyache about the price of gas here, where in most of Europe, folks are paying double what we are. I'm sure that's what's also encouraged their use of diesel engines and I look forward to the day when diesels are available in normal cars here. I'd buy a Cadillac with a Duramax in a second. I like that new TDI V-10 Toureg. 0-60 in the low 6-second range! Granted, that's a V-10 with 500 lbs of torque, but imagine what they could do if they tuned a 5.0 liter diesel V-8 for street car use (rather than truck or SUV use) and planted it in a Deville. I think it'd be great, but diesels have a reputation in this country that I think will be hard to overcome.

Most of what you say is accurate and yes, lots of areas do have some form of rudementary public transportation, however, most of those types of transportation systems are not in tune with the needs of the people. Even during the nonrush hours in New York City, buses arrive at most stops every 5~10 minutes, as do the trains and they do this 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I'm sure the shuttle services in your area are no where near as efficient as what NYC has and this is the situation not just in your area, but in most places around the country. Mass transit just doesn't exist at the level it should.

Nearly 70% of all cars on the road these days are leased. Have you noticed the prices for leasing a car these days? I always find it odd that leasing an SUV has a lower monthly cost than leasing a car such as a Honda. In New Jersey, you can lease an Escalade for about $249 a month whereas a Honda is leasing for well over $300 a month.

Most people live paycheck-to-paycheck and will lease the cheapest vehicle they can find which at present, is an SUV. SUV's are being pushed not only because the profit margins are MASSIVE for the car maufacturers and now for the oil companies and the governments as well, but people want to drive them as well because they give a false sense of security.

Let's face it, most people prefer to drive because it leaves them in control of where they go and for the most part, how and when they arrive at their destination. It's all about independence and that feeling of independence that one gets when they own their own vehicle. Riding a bus or a train makes you dependant on others to arrive at your destination, on THEIR schedule. It also makes you "one of the masses", you become a nondescript member of society, just another face in the crowd. Riding around in a car is as much a statement of independance as it is a statement of ego.

We are paying the price for wanting independance and the ego trip, it's going to be a very expensive one.

[Ed Hall]

Gas here in Ventura, Southern California is running $2.35 for the cheap stuff. I would be riding my bike if I didn't have to share the road with SUV's. There's just no way out of not driving a car down here. Public transportation hardly exists where I live and bike paths are merely just an extra wide shoulder shared with cars that are in a hurry.

[Prop_Washer2]

Gas is Gas...Shell gas goes into the pipeline, 3,000 miles away it comes out at a Chevron Station. Unless you have a local refinery, i.e. Chevron trucking fuel to a Chevron dealer, from a Chevron refinery...it is all the same. All Gasoline has the same amount of ingredient for power, Heptane. Octane is used to slow the burn process. There are different blends for different parts of the country, as well as different blends for the particular season of the year. If the Heptane level changes, i.e. "the formula", it ain't gasoline no more, it is something else, perhaps "Goof Off" , any way fuel travels from refineries into the pipelines, it all gets mixed together. The same pipelines carrier Diesel, JP-8, Jet-A, Premium Unleaded, Regular unleaded, etc... when tanks are switched, i.e. Premium vs Diesel, or Jet-A. the two get mixed together. They are sent off into a "Slop Tank" by calculation. It is all a pretty neat process. BP may be selling a Chevron, Fina, Texaco or other base product, but may apply thier special cleaning additive. Individual dealers usually inject thier "proprietary" ingredient such as "Techron" or whatever prior to getting to the retail outlet. That is the long and short of it. I am a Federal Inspector, and monitor the pipeline movements, as well as Inspect Jet Fuel and other petrolium by products for the Government...

[JasonA]

Riding around in a car is as much a statement of independance as it is a statement of ego. We are paying the price for wanting independance and the ego trip, it's going to be a very expensive one.

I agree 100%. I just wish that the "statement" that people make is consistent. Making a statement by riding around in an SUV getting 12 mpg is fine. Turning around and making another statement with tears in their eyes that they can't afford to clothe the baby anymore because it costs too much at the pump just doesn't quite make sense to me.

[Marika]

Riding around in a car is as much a statement of independance as it is a statement of ego.  We are paying the price for wanting independance and the ego trip, it's going to be a very expensive one.

I agree 100%. I just wish that the "statement" that people make is consistent. Making a statement by riding around in an SUV getting 12 mpg is fine. Turning around and making another statement with tears in their eyes that they can't afford to clothe the baby anymore because it costs too much at the pump just doesn't quite make sense to me.

As most Europeans see us, we are spoiled and we don't know how to handle our money and credit. In essence, they are right. We really don't know the difference between what we want and what we need. Well, we're going to be learning that painful lesson soon.

Personally, I hate SUV's and I think the government should require special licensing for people who drive them. They are trucks and in the wrong, untrained hands, they are potentially deadly on the roads. Just as a commercial trucker has to have a CDL, so too should SUV drivers be required to have a similar version of a CDL.

[Marika]

Gas is Gas...Shell gas goes into the pipeline, 3,000 miles away it comes out at a Chevron Station. Unless you have a local refinery, i.e. Chevron trucking fuel to a Chevron dealer, from a Chevron refinery...it is all the same. All Gasoline has the same amount of ingredient for power, Heptane. Octane is used to slow the burn process. There are different blends for different parts of the country, as well as different blends for the particular season of the year. If the Heptane level changes, i.e. "the formula", it ain't gasoline no more, it is something else, perhaps "Goof Off"  , any way fuel travels from refineries into the pipelines, it all gets mixed together. The same pipelines carrier Diesel, JP-8, Jet-A, Premium Unleaded, Regular unleaded, etc... when tanks are switched, i.e. Premium vs Diesel, or Jet-A. the two get mixed together. They are sent off into a "Slop Tank" by calculation. It is all a pretty neat process. BP may be selling a Chevron, Fina, Texaco or other base product, but may apply thier special cleaning additive. Individual dealers usually inject thier "proprietary" ingredient such as "Techron" or whatever prior to getting to the retail outlet. That is the long and short of it. I am a Federal Inspector, and monitor the pipeline movements, as well as Inspect Jet Fuel and other petrolium by products for the Government...

BINGO!!

[JohnnyG]

Marika, what world do you live in? The govt. cannot ever raise the paychecks from day to day, let alone the taxes on a gallon of fuel. You need to pass a tax bill for that! Have you ever heard of the commodities market? Check that out sometime if you want to see where your daily price increases are coming from.

Prop Washer2, Some of the things you say are real close to the truth, just not "exactly" what goes on in the real world. In principal you have the most correct post out there, just some of the little details differ from what I have seen in the last 30 or so years. For example it doesn't "all get mixed together" That would eliminate the need for a "refinery" which seperates all those thing out. Only where the two different product meet, like when you're "pushing" gasoline with diesel for 1 or 200 miles, do they mix. This is called "transmix", shortened from "transportation mixture". This transmix is removed from the saleable product stream and diverted to the "slop tank" where it is held and eventually purchased for re-refinement. It only makes up a small portion of the total amount of product moved. The part that REALLY gets me is why the government decided it could pre-determine, and then limit, the amount of Ultra Low Sulfur diesel that could be downgraded in this manner. WHY?

We'll get into storage tank design and "swing tanks" some other time. Just think, I could become a government consultant or something! Maybe I can get that retirement home in Florida after all!

[Prop_Washer2]

10-4 on the Trans-Mix! If you could pull up a map of current pipelines throughout the US, it starts to look like an Airline Routing System. Most of them are underground and cannot be seen. My point of contention is for example where I live, we had 2 local refineries, and 2 satellite refineries. Chevron, El Paso Refinery, Navajo Refinery, and Shell. These 4 producers have tank farms locally. As Fuel is sampled and tested, then once approved, it is "switched" into the pipeline. The pipeline essential never shuts down. So as the manifolds are closed and new ones opened, the pipeline has remained running the whole time. So we had Chevron pumping through, now the tank is close to being empty, time to switch to Shell, Off it goes to the next tank farm down the line. In our case it was usually Phoenix (450 miles) or Los Angeles (750 miles). What came out there was Gasoline, not Shell, nor Chevron, just gasoline. The the retailer stores it for usage as needed and adds their "ingredient". On demand, the pipeline needs to carry Premium, Regular, Mid-Level, Government Jet fuel..previousley JP-4 was the standard, or commercial Jet-A. Those tanks are treated just like gas, switches are made (I used to witness the switching at say at 2, 3 or 4 in the morning, man if I fell back asleep which I did one time) they had to shut down the whole system to Los Angeles. The system has to come down and go up as whole. You don't want a 2,000 hp boost pump pumping into a pipeline with no outlet... . I witnessed the transition from manual valves, to computerization. So their task is much easier.. My area of concentration was on the JP-4 which is no longer used, great power vs JetA but much more volatile...and all 4 refineries listed above produced pretty much identical JP-4. Some freezes a little lower than other batches, so on and so forth, but it is just JP-4. Most gasoline retailers are sirviced by truck, which came from the "branded" tank farm that was injected with "marvoline" (great stuff that marvoline) whish were filled via pipeline from some or multiple suppliers, from mutiple sources of crude oil. It may have been local crude oil from the uSA, or imported from Ragheadville, Brazil, Venezuela, etc... Some crude is "sweet" some is "sour". I have witnessed the opening of "sour crude" in the lab, man it will knock your socks off, the "sweet" will wake you up too , but anyway that's my Dos Pesos. I just lite up when one guy says Brand X provides better mileage. I do recall a commercial when I was a kid from Shell, showing a gallon jug on the trunk of a car filled with Shell, and another with a competitors product, gee they must have filled 'em from the original tank prior to going into the pipeline! Boy I must be bored to have typed all of this stuff!

[Marika]

Marika, what world do you live in?  The govt. cannot ever raise the paychecks from day to day, let alone the taxes on a gallon of fuel.  You need to pass a tax bill for that!  Have you ever heard of the commodities market?  Check that out sometime if you want to see where your daily price increases are coming from.

The taxes that already exist on all fuels are based on a percentage of the fuel price, just like everything else that gets taxed in this country.

The higher the fuel prices, the higher the taxes. It's automatic. There's no need to pass laws, the system is already in place.

So far, the price of fuel in the UK has risen about 8% while here in this country, 33%.

The profits are huge for the oil companies here and the government is making a nice killing on the increased fuel taxes as well.

And by the way, I live in the same world you live in.

[Marika]

Gas here in Ventura, Southern California is running $2.35 for the cheap stuff. I would be riding my bike if I didn't have to share the road with SUV's. There's just no way out of not driving a car down here. Public transportation hardly exists where I live and bike paths are merely just an extra wide shoulder shared with cars that are in a hurry.

Ed, I really feel your pain. It's terrible to be forced into a situation where you HAVE to depend on your car and the costs of fuel are going through the roof while our paychecks are lingering somewhere in the cellar.

Bad, really bad...

[djazzmo]

Okay enough is enough. My original post was hyjacked to debate the reasons for high fuel cost. While that was interesting to read I still want to know if any of you have had a positive experience from using the name brand gas over the cheap stuff.

As I stated in my original post I have been running a tank full of the BP mid grade for my normal driving. I am 3/4 through the tank and the DIC is reading 17 mpg. While that is about normal for me I do feel that the car is running a wee bit smoother and the acceleration is slightly better. It might not be enough to justify the cost difference but my unscientific results are that the BP is a beter gas. If I can afford it I might try to run a tankful of the BP premium next to see if there is a difference.

[JasonA]

djazzmo, in regards to your original post, I use the premium gas from almost any gas station out there, with no adverse effects. I almost always get the same gas mileage (20 city, 28-30 highway) no matter what particular brand of gasoline I run. I commonly fill up with Amoco because those seem to be the only stations around here who keep receipt tape in the printer. <_>

In short, I haven't found any positive or negative effects with different brands of gas.

[Marika]

Okay enough is enough. My original post was hyjacked to debate the reasons for high fuel cost. While that was interesting to read I still want to know if any of you have had a positive experience from using the name brand gas over the cheap stuff.

In a word, No. I have found no difference in gas with the exception of BP which seems to disappear into thin air and I therefore don't use it. I buy my gas strictly by price.

[mike5514]

In my area gas is gas! My milage is the same.The only time it drops is in california 1.5 to 2mpg

[JohnnyG]

djazzmo, I think your question has been answered, you just got a little more info than you wanted and not the answer that you hoped for. It is not possible for one brand of gas to offer better fuel economy than another, IT'S ALL THE SAME. This does disregard any effects of ethanol on the btu content of the fuel, but hey, that's what the Californians wanted...cleaner burning fuels and fewer SUV's.