Blind people say hybrid cars pose safety risk

[Marika]

This may be old news to some.....

Blind people say hybrid cars pose safety risk

Visually impaired can't hear gas-electric vehicles at slow speeds

BALTIMORE - Gas-electric hybrid vehicles, the status symbol for the environmentally conscientious, are coming under attack from a constituency that doesn't drive — the blind.

Because hybrids make virtually no noise at slower speeds when they run solely on electric power, blind people say they pose a hazard to those who rely on their ears to determine whether it's safe to cross the street or walk through a parking lot.

"I'm used to being able to get sound cues from my environment and negotiate accordingly. I hadn't imagined there was anything I really wouldn't be able to hear," said Deborah Kent Stein, chairwoman of the National Federation of the Blind's Committee on Automotive and Pedestrian Safety. "We did a test, and I discovered, to my great dismay, that I couldn't hear it."

The tests — admittedly unscientific — involved people standing in parking lots or on sidewalks who were asked to signal when they heard several different hybrid models drive by.

"People were making comments like, 'When are they going to start the test?' And it would turn out that the vehicle had already done two or three laps around the parking lot," Stein said.

As gas prices continue to rise — along with concern about harmful emissions — hybrid cars are increasing in popularity. New hybrid vehicle registrations grew more than 49 percent nationwide in the first seven months of 2007 compared with the same period in 2006, according to R.L. Polk & Co., an automotive research firm. Toyota Motor Corp. has sold nearly 460,000 of the most popular hybrid model, the Prius, since it hit the market in 2000, according to the company, which pegs total hybrid sales at just over 900,000.

Officials with the Baltimore-based National Federation of the Blind are quick to point out that they're not advocating a return to gas guzzlers. They'd just like the fuel-efficient hybrids to make some noise.

NFB President Marc Maurer said he received an e-mail from an environmentalist who suggested that the members of his group should be the first to drown when sea levels rise from global warming.

"I don't want to pick that way of going, but I don't want to get run over by a quiet car, either," Maurer said.

The NFB — the leading advocacy group for 1.3 million legally blind people in the United States — made pleas to the auto industry and to federal and state agencies, with little concrete success so far. On Wednesday, the president of the NFB's Maryland chapter planned to present written testimony asking for a minimum sound standard for hybrids to be included in the state's emissions regulations.

But those regulations are crafted by the Maryland Department of the Environment, which has no oversight of auto safety, said Robert Ballinger, a spokesman for the department. He said the department would work with the NFB to press the issue with auto manufacturers and federal transportation officials.

Manufacturers are aware of the problem but have made no pledges yet. Toyota is studying the issue internally, said Bill Kwong, a spokesman for Toyota Motor Sales USA.

"One of the many benefits of the Prius, besides excellent fuel economy and low emissions, is quiet performance. Not only does it not pollute the air, it doesn't create noise pollution," Kwong said. "We are studying the issue and trying to find that delicate balance."

The Association of International Auto Manufacturers Inc., a trade group, is also studying the problem, along with a committee established by the Society of Automotive Engineers. The groups are considering "the possibility of setting a minimum noise level standard for hybrid vehicles," said Mike Camissa, the safety director for the manufacturers' association.

Officials with two separate arms of the U.S. Department of Transportation — the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Federal Highway Administration — said they are aware of the problem but have not studied it.

While Stein said she would prefer that hybrids sound similar to conventional engines, other blind people said they'd be fine with any sound that was inoffensive but easy to detect. Both sides agree that it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive to outfit cars with an adequate noisemaking device.

"It's cheaper than an air bag or other safety devices," Kwong said. "Any kind of audio device is going to be relatively inexpensive."

The blind, however, will have to win over some hybrid owners as well as advocates for reduced noise pollution. Some think that making hybrids louder won't solve anything.

"To further expose millions of people to excessive noise pollution by making vehicles artificially loud is neither logical nor practical nor in the public interest," said Richard Tur, founder of NoiseOFF, a group that raises awareness of noise pollution.

Others believe that distracted pedestrians are at greater risk than blind people from quiet cars.

"The only way to function driving any car, forgetting the fact that it's a Prius, is to just be very careful and see who's around you," said George Margolin of Newport Beach, Calif., who runs a club for Prius owners with his wife. "We have to be as careful as anyone else and perhaps even more so."

Blind people are not the only ones who've had close calls. Linda Murphy, 57, a personal administrative assistant from San Marcos, Calif., has 20/20 vision when she wears her glasses, but she's almost been hit twice by hybrids.

"I'm walking right in back of it and it's moving and I didn't realize it until it nearly touched me," Murphy said, describing the first of her scares. "I never realized how dependent I was on my ears until I almost got hit."

[Marika]

"Both sides agree that it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive to outfit cars with an adequate noisemaking device."

Suggestions:

Car load full of children;

In-laws in the back seat;

400 watt sound system;

Punch a small hole in the muffler;

Back seat drivers.

[BodybyFisher]

That is what the HORN is for!! Oh I'm rotten. That is also what seeing EYE dogs are for....

Remember when we were kids you use to put a baseball card (usually Mets) or something that rubbed against the spokes on your bike to make noise, maybe they can do something like that on the hybrids (patent pending don't steal my idea, LOL)

I can see this now, sound that is projected out of the front of the car, to let pedestrians know you are coming, The sound will be user customizable. Think about the sound tailoring possibilities, hmm today I think I want to sound like a Chevy Vega, or;

Indy Car

Turbine like the Bat mobile

F14 Tomcat

Locamotive

Scooter

Hoover Wind tunnel

Eureka

Oreck

Model T

WW2 Tank

The Roadrunner

A little birdy (for the greens)

Ferrari

427 Chevy with side pipes

3/4 race CAM lopes

Northstar, LOL

[Marika]

That is what the HORN is for!! Oh I'm rotten. That is also what seeing EYE dogs are for....

Now we KNOW you're not a liberal....

[BodybyFisher]

That is what the HORN is for!! Oh I'm rotten. That is also what seeing EYE dogs are for....

Now we KNOW you're not a liberal....

Am I that transparent?

[WarrenJ]

Link to article??

[Texas Jim]

Am I that transparent?

Yep...

Another idea... put a decent speaker in the grill with a decent amp...

Play a combination of your 427 with side pipes (accelerating of course) and Wagners "Flight Of The Valkyries."

REALLY LOUD

Just as they step off of the curb, after you jave slipped up on them in your silent hybrid.

I can almost see it.

[Marika]

Link to article??

Just Google Hybrid and Blind and there's a whole list of articles about this problem.

[WarrenJ]

Link to article??

Just Google Hybrid and Blind and there's a whole list of articles about this problem.

Yep, found dozens of 'em. I was looking for the SPECIFIC link to this article. Google didn't help me find *THIS* specific article.

Regards,

Warren

EDIT: I was disappointed the OP didn't post a link.

[Marika]

Link to article??

Just Google Hybrid and Blind and there's a whole list of articles about this problem.

Yep, found dozens of 'em. I was looking for the SPECIFIC link to this article. Google didn't help me find *THIS* specific article.

Regards,

Warren

EDIT: I was disappointed the OP didn't post a link.

You're breaking my heart...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21112810/

[WarrenJ]

You're breaking my heart...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21112810/

It's been a few decades since I've been accused of that. Thanks!

Regards,

Warren

[Cadillac Jim]

It seems to me that a very key point is missed here: it's the responsibility of the driver not to run over blind people with seeing-eye dogs and white canes. It's not the responsibility of the blind person to hear cars. Hearing cars isn't reliable in any case because background noise can easily drown out the sound of a DHS.

[WarrenJ]

Do you get more points for the blind person or the dog?

Yeah, I know that was HORRIBLE!

If you can find it in your heart to forgive me for a moment (and I'll not fault you for a nay vote), I had a VERY unusual experience earlier Monday evening: during evening hours a woman clad entirely in dark clothing crossed my path in an entirely dark unilluminated electric powered wheelchair as I made a left turn into oncoming traffic.

I don't know where she came from; honestly I don't! I was in mid intersection with oncoming traffic approaching. I was stranded. I think she smiled slightly at me. Could be wrong. She cleared the intersection in what I might only call a very slow rate.

I expect she knew exactly what she was doing.

You see Jim, sometimes everything is not what it might seem. I've sanitized this a bit.

Regards,

Warren

[BodybyFisher]

It seems to me that a very key point is missed here: it's the responsibility of the driver not to run over blind people with seeing-eye dogs and white canes. It's not the responsibility of the blind person to hear cars. Hearing cars isn't reliable in any case because background noise can easily drown out the sound of a DHS.

Maybe this is a problem, but its a problem for us all, if we don't stop look and listen. Much of the noise is NOT created by the engine, its created by the tires on the road. I would like to know how they know a light is green and that it is safe to cross the street in the first place

Deborah Kent Stein is an activist, if you do a search she is all over the place. Personally, I think that blind people should have guidance in potentially dangerous situations and I usually help a blind person when I see the opportunity. (after I ask of course). Like in Manhattan or in the NYC subways..