Ion Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Does anyone know why, on occasion, the starter cranks for an extended period of time before it will actually start the engine? It's always something with this aging Caddie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsjoe Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 If it takes a long time but only when warmed up, you also have a bad Fuel Pressure Regulator! Easy fix and I believe cost around 45 at the Dealer (for the part) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ion Posted December 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 It happens completely randomly. But based on previous posts re: this issue, I'll probably go ahead and replace the FPR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsjoe Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 If it's random you may want to clean the throttle body and blade also ( I do that once a year) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Just in case you're unaware, don't try to start your Eldo with the cover off because it's required for vacuum. If the FPR needs to be replaced, symptoms include excessive cranking and backfiring through the manifold when trying to start and white smoke rising from the engine compartment. I replaced my FPR and it was not a difficult job. Just make sure the FPR is properly seated to prevent leaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 I just want to add that I am getting extended cranking lately also usually when warm, it does not want to catch. I replaced my FPR in the last year or so. My battery is about 3 years old. My ignition wires look bad. My plugs were replaced about 45000 miles ago. My thottle body was polished in August. I want to note that I have mixed in 87 octane due to the gas price and I am using HESS most of the time. I am thinking that this is related to bad ignition wires in my case, and plan to replace them. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsjoe Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Mac is correct with the safety issue, glad he caught that. If you get a new FPR you'll see a TINY "o" ring on the bottom when you remove the old one make sure you get it out or you'll spend 30 minutes trying to put the new one in (ask me how I know ) I wasn't posting on the board when the first Northstar I owned FPR went bad, Dealer fleeced me for 1400.00, I grind my teeth just typing that! BBF, could be FPR or plugs/wires, Mine have about 130k starts fine put stumbles a bit on WOT's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 It happens completely randomly. But based on previous posts re: this issue, I'll probably go ahead and replace the FPR. Don't throw parts at it till one sticks. Check the FPR. It is easy enough. It could also be a bad fuel pump relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 When my Fleetwood Brougham did that... I eventually had to replace the fuel pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 If it takes a long time but only when warmed up, you also have a bad Fuel Pressure Regulator! Easy fix and I believe cost around 45 at the Dealer (for the part) I just priced an FPR for my 94 Concours and the dealer wanted $150.00. Aftermarket ones from Advance are $75.00. Rockauto wants $57 for aftermarket to $75 for AC/Delco. I do not remember paying that much for mine a few years back, have part prices went up that much recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Mac is correct with the safety issue, glad he caught that. If you get a new FPR you'll see a TINY "o" ring on the bottom when you remove the old one make sure you get it out or you'll spend 30 minutes trying to put the new one in (ask me how I know ) I wasn't posting on the board when the first Northstar I owned FPR went bad, Dealer fleeced me for 1400.00, I grind my teeth just typing that! BBF, could be FPR or plugs/wires, Mine have about 130k starts fine put stumbles a bit on WOT's Joe my FPR is less than a year old, I think I replaced it in August when I did my crossover and ISS speed sensor. I am thinking that my ignition wires are shot and I need to look at my plugs. I also think using 87 octane could be partly responsible, what do you think about 87 octane and poor starting? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsjoe Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Mac is correct with the safety issue, glad he caught that. If you get a new FPR you'll see a TINY "o" ring on the bottom when you remove the old one make sure you get it out or you'll spend 30 minutes trying to put the new one in (ask me how I know ) I wasn't posting on the board when the first Northstar I owned FPR went bad, Dealer fleeced me for 1400.00, I grind my teeth just typing that! BBF, could be FPR or plugs/wires, Mine have about 130k starts fine put stumbles a bit on WOT's Joe my FPR is less than a year old, I think I replaced it in August when I did my crossover and ISS speed sensor. I am thinking that my ignition wires are shot and I need to look at my plugs. I also think using 87 octane could be partly responsible, what do you think about 87 octane and poor starting? I think if the 87 octane or the plugs and wires were causing a hard start you would be having some pretty big drivability issues too ( rough idle, stumble) i realize you replaced the FPR in August, may check the vaccum line going to it, but how many times have we had members say " my alternator must be bad because the battery is brand new" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsjoe Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 If it takes a long time but only when warmed up, you also have a bad Fuel Pressure Regulator! Easy fix and I believe cost around 45 at the Dealer (for the part) I just priced an FPR for my 94 Concours and the dealer wanted $150.00. Aftermarket ones from Advance are $75.00. Rockauto wants $57 for aftermarket to $75 for AC/Delco. I do not remember paying that much for mine a few years back, have part prices went up that much recently? If you check GMpartsdirect it's 36.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Mac is correct with the safety issue, glad he caught that. If you get a new FPR you'll see a TINY "o" ring on the bottom when you remove the old one make sure you get it out or you'll spend 30 minutes trying to put the new one in (ask me how I know ) I wasn't posting on the board when the first Northstar I owned FPR went bad, Dealer fleeced me for 1400.00, I grind my teeth just typing that! BBF, could be FPR or plugs/wires, Mine have about 130k starts fine put stumbles a bit on WOT's Joe my FPR is less than a year old, I think I replaced it in August when I did my crossover and ISS speed sensor. I am thinking that my ignition wires are shot and I need to look at my plugs. I also think using 87 octane could be partly responsible, what do you think about 87 octane and poor starting? I think if the 87 octane or the plugs and wires were causing a hard start you would be having some pretty big drivability issues too ( rough idle, stumble) i realize you replaced the FPR in August, may check the vaccum line going to it, but how many times have we had members say " my alternator must be bad because the battery is brand new" I actually do have an occasional slight stumble lately at a stop light, I was thinking last night, I am surprised that it didnt set off a misfire code, when I did my crossover and ISS job in August, I realized that my ignition wires were bad, its time. But I will check my FPR, it sat on my bench for about a year before I used it... for that matter my old FPR is sitting on the bench now... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Octane should have no effect on starting at all. You have to have a pretty severe misfire to set a DTC, Mike. I found that out when my wires went bad after the fuel rail recall. If you remember my post "Stutter, Engine or Trans?", I had a misfire, but no DTC until I brake torqued it pretty hard and induced a bad enough misfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 If it takes a long time but only when warmed up, you also have a bad Fuel Pressure Regulator! Easy fix and I believe cost around 45 at the Dealer (for the part) I just priced an FPR for my 94 Concours and the dealer wanted $150.00. Aftermarket ones from Advance are $75.00. Rockauto wants $57 for aftermarket to $75 for AC/Delco. I do not remember paying that much for mine a few years back, have part prices went up that much recently? If you check GMpartsdirect it's 36.00 Here is what I just found on GMpartsdirect $139.00 list, their price $72.00. You must not be quoting one for a 94 4.6NS. How long ago did you get your quote? I would love to find one for $36.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Joe my FPR is less than a year old, I think I replaced it in August when I did my crossover and ISS speed sensor. I am thinking that my ignition wires are shot and I need to look at my plugs. I also think using 87 octane could be partly responsible, what do you think about 87 octane and poor starting? BBF, Not trying to start a octane war, but I put 87 in mine "ONE" time. I hope I NEVER do that again. My Cadillac didn't like it at all. The 87 cut the power back quite a bit and dropped the mileage about 2 miles per gallon. I was on a trip and ran it all out in just a few hours and refilled with Premium. I know a lot of the Cadillacs run fine on 87. Kinda wish mine would. Would save me a fair amount of money. I use nothing but the highest octane I can find. In this area that is 93 octane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsjoe Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Sorry Paul, I was looking at the 96, I stand corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ion Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 It happens completely randomly. But based on previous posts re: this issue, I'll probably go ahead and replace the FPR. Don't throw parts at it till one sticks. Check the FPR. It is easy enough. It could also be a bad fuel pump relay. Since it IS a 1994 and sensors and parts do wear out with age (in the last year I have replaced my fuel pump, filter, TPS, MAP, air filter, plugs and wires) and my car's symptoms (engine backfire upon starting, white smoke) correspond with the previous poster's symptoms that were fixed when they replaced the FPR, it surely couldn't hurt to replace it. Forunately through all these replacements, I have learned a bit about my Northstar, since I have done all replacements myself. I now feel more confident / less anxious about my ability to do more in the future, thus saving literally thousands of dollars. This confidence can be, in part, credited to the knowledge gathered here. It also helps to be friends with a guy who has built a few cars in his day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Joe my FPR is less than a year old, I think I replaced it in August when I did my crossover and ISS speed sensor. I am thinking that my ignition wires are shot and I need to look at my plugs. I also think using 87 octane could be partly responsible, what do you think about 87 octane and poor starting? BBF, Not trying to start a octane war, but I put 87 in mine "ONE" time. I hope I NEVER do that again. My Cadillac didn't like it at all. The 87 cut the power back quite a bit and dropped the mileage about 2 miles per gallon. I was on a trip and ran it all out in just a few hours and refilled with Premium. I know a lot of the Cadillacs run fine on 87. Kinda wish mine would. Would save me a fair amount of money. I use nothing but the highest octane I can find. In this area that is 93 octane. You are correct, while I occasionally use 87, my car is designed to run on 91, I am sure that the PCM retards the timing to prevent knock. We have had this discussion in the past that you are not saving money using 87... It just LOOKS like I am getting more for my money.... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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