Cadillac STS Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Well I ended up buying the solenoid kit and I’m really starting to think that I should go ahead and just do the darn install myself!!! The reason im so ticked off is because the first local shop I went to didn’t even want to help me…I was very polite and very detailed as to what I want done…the mechanic even mentioned …”it will be hard because when you open up the valve body there are small balls that are hard to put back in” I told him it should be a fairly easy job and shouldn’t take too long…all I wanted was to know how much it would cost for installation, that’s it! He left me waiting there for about an hour while he went about checking other people’s cars that came after me! I let slide the first 3 times…he never once tried to help me after our little conversation, he straight out ignored me…I couldn’t take it…so he just had to help one more person before me...so I snapped…these were pretty much my exact words: Me: “ You know what David (that was his name), if you don’t want to help me you tell me alright, you don’t waste my Fu*k^ng time okay… You should have been straightforward in the beginning instead of making me wait, I was very polite and you just blew me off! “ David: “ get out of my store!!” Me: “Learn how to treat your customers right because you treating me like Shi#…” and then I kinda slipped and called him a piece of &*^% and he told me to “F*&k myself” I went out yelling at his employees while walking back to my car…” your boss is a Son of a *smurf*, that’s what” I then went home and called up 5 different places that are close by… 3 of which didn’t want to touch my car…one that told me it would cost $900 friggen dollars because they have to “remove the tranny” I hung up on them when they said that…but finally the last call was the only call where I actually got a legit quote, still high just not ridiculous though…200 buks for labor… Im clueless as to what I should do now… DIY doesn’t sound all that bad anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 If you feel the least bit uncomfortable about working on the tranny of your car, and yes, it's a tough job and takes a lot of paying attention and concentration, than go to the dealership and let them do the job with the warranty. A lot of mechanics will not touch Cadillacs because frankly, they are very complicated cars and can be very difficult to work on, even with the service manual in hand. Do yourself the favor and spend the few extra dollars for **peace of mind**, take it to the dealership. Now go relax and have a beer. You deserve one after the day you had. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 A lot of mechanics will not touch Cadillacs because frankly, they are very complicated cars and can be very difficult to work on, even with the service manual in hand. Or at least that's the reputation they have, and most mechanics are scared to work on them. In reality, most procedures are very straight-forward and easy to do. I really like the water pump change bit. The dealership wants 500 bucks to change the water pump, because it's "in a difficult location and requires special tools." Ha! Get you the socket on eBay for 20 bucks and change the pump for $100 in parts total, and maybe 2 hours of your time. A tune-up is another money draw for the dealership. They'll bring $400 for new plug wires and plugs, parts which would cost less than $150 from GM Parts Direct and maybe one hour of your time. I'd do the tranny work myself, especially considering all the information in the archives about it. Get yourself a service manual if you don't already have one. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 A lot of mechanics will not touch Cadillacs because frankly, they are very complicated cars and can be very difficult to work on, even with the service manual in hand. Or at least that's the reputation they have, and most mechanics are scared to work on them. In reality, most procedures are very straight-forward and easy to do. I really like the water pump change bit. The dealership wants 500 bucks to change the water pump, because it's "in a difficult location and requires special tools." Ha! Get you the socket on eBay for 20 bucks and change the pump for $100 in parts total, and maybe 2 hours of your time. A tune-up is another money draw for the dealership. They'll bring $400 for new plug wires and plugs, parts which would cost less than $150 from GM Parts Direct and maybe one hour of your time. I'd do the tranny work myself, especially considering all the information in the archives about it. Get yourself a service manual if you don't already have one. Very well stated!!! Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 As a truck mechanic, I have to say that Cadillac's are no harder to work on than any other type of vehicle. In fact, most of the work is fairly stright forward. I actually find it refreshing working on something that doesn't require a group of people or a forklift just to change a tire. Most mechanics don't like working on Cadillacs because there aren't a whole lot of them out there compared to other cars, so they don't really have any knowlege or experince with them. They don't want to spend the time to figure things out, or risk messing something up. Vehicle repair, like anything else, is learned through repitition. If you chanage a Honda starter a million times, you get good at it. If you have never changed a Cadillac starter, then you probably suck at it. Another thing to consider is when a shop forman sees a young kid, or a single woman, with an expensive looking car they think "sucker". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franey Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 FIND a reputable shop, ask around, I have used the same transmission shop for years, they do all of my company vehicles, and when I asked them about replacing the A B solenoids , they charged me $100.00 , plus a case of beer. This included new filter , gasket and fluid labor and everything . While they were in their they found some of the wireing harness had started to deteriorate and they even fixed it. I know that finding a place for a hundred would be hard , but you should b e able to get it done for about 250.00 or maybe a little less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac STS Posted March 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 is 2.5 hours realy worth 200 buks! I'm lucky if i get 100 buks for a auto detail working almost 6 hours!!!!!! i will try and pick up a service manual..i thought i saw one in kragen a while back, should be there still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Raven Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Howyadoin, You got quoted $370.00 by the dealer, right? Based on what I've seen and heard about dealership service, that's not a bad deal at all. You might get a better deal from an independent shop that isn't afraid of Caddys, but there might be some sweet-talking involved... ...and that doesn't sound like a particular strength of yours... The independent guy can't afford to marry a job, so he's going to err on the side of caution until he's done a couple. You know the old saying, "We screw the other guy and pass the savings on to you!"? If it turns into a fishing expedition, he's got hours into the job doing work for someone he has no history with, which makes him nervous about getting paid. Especially when a young guy he's never met is telling him what the problem is and what he expects to have done, and is supplying parts he can't markup for extra margin. He'd rather do the job for Grandpa Jones, who he doesn't suspect is gonna skip out on the bill, and isn't going to Monday-morning quarterback his work. He can't take it at face value, so he's going to lead high to cover his *smurf*, or just blow it off if he's not hard up for work. If the dealership isn't incompetent, I'd lean in that direction, but it wouldn't hurt to do a little research and maybe call the Better Business Bureau. It sounds like a pain in the *smurf*, but the legwork you do first is a helluva lot better than chasing a scumbag dealer who hosed you and has no intention of making good on it. Ever look into small-claims court? Ecch... Paying the independent shop $200 for labor, then paying separately for the parts, fluid, gasket/filter kit, shipping/tax etc, you're not that far south of $300. The difference is a couple tanks of gas where I live. Again, a call to the BBB will be helpful. This really isn't a big job if you're a mechanic by trade. If the guy you talked to first is a transmission mechanic, and told you he didn't want to deal with the check balls in the valve body, he's either sporting a room-temperature IQ or is blowing you off. Either way, good riddance to that bozo. Good luck! Trust me, it's worth getting done... -Rav -Mark P. Salem, MA "Refined Sugar" - '96 SLS, 175K "...the Caddy is dedicated to relentlessly -- and comfortably -- converting time into distance." -J.J. Gertler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Raven,..here it is, I've posted this so many times, I've saved it in WORD. Not a bad job, about 4-1/2 hours. This is for a 4T-80E transmission. a) the job is a mess, be prepared. drop the pan, and careful removing the tranny gasket, it is re-usable. Once you clean the pan, you can reset it with gasket sealer. c) disconnect the solenoid electrical connectors and the mechanical linkage. The linkage has a metal clip you lift and slide. d) remove the valve body screws, and drop the valve body. e) place the valve body where you can afford a mess, it will continually leak. Best thing is to set it on cardboard on a bench. There is a valve spool that can be removed as well, careful it can slip out, you don't want to damage it. f) remove the two clips holding the solenoids, careful they are spring-loaded and will fly g) remove the screws holding the "large" portion of the valve body split, this is where the solenoids are incased. Remember the screw locations, there are about four different screw lengths h) CAREFULLY remove split, there are 4 steel check balls loose inside the split (about 1/4" diameter, they will fly, as well) i) inspect spacer plate, if the black coating is not chipping off you can re-use it, otherwise plan on spending another $ 70 at the dealership parts house. If you replace it you will have to remove the "smaller" split, as well. It also has three check balls. j) replace the solenoids k) now comes the fun,....you will note three holes in the spacer plate where three of the check balls reside, seat them there (appr. 3/16" diameter with a smaller relief hole next to it, as I remember). The fourth check ball will need to be inserted in a spherically-cast cavity which is near one the solenoids. You can set it with grease, I re-assembled successfully without using grease. l) re-assemble valve body, carefully and equally torque. m) you will note a square black plastic item near one of the solenoids, on the end. Replace this plastic filter with the new filter in the solenoid kit. The kit will also come with an L-shaped bracket that is to be used to "capture" this filter and keep it from backing out. The kit also comes with a slightly longer screw used to mount the bracket to the valve body (discard the old screw). m) re-assemble valve body to transmission, hook up linkage and electrical connectors n) replace both tranny filters o) replenish fluid p) reset codes I am told there is a screw on the side of the tranny for also draining the torque converter, I did not know this at the time and did not perform this. There should be something in the Caddyinfo.com archives about this, recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 drop the pan,... Oh,..how cute, Bruce substitituted "Mr. Sunglasses" for step B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac STS Posted March 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 what does a tranny gasket look like??? also will the service manual help too rather than just having the step by step instructions that willie posted? i think having both the step by step instructions and the serive manual will be a great combo to tackle this thing....im getting ready....come saturday morning its on!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 what does a tranny gasket look like??? also will the service manual help too rather than just having the step by step instructions that willie posted? i think having both the step by step instructions and the serive manual will be a great combo to tackle this thing....im getting ready....come saturday morning its on!!!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...item=2470629175 That bid is for VOLUME 1 only and unfortunately, that's all that's showing on Ebay at the moment for a 1994 Seville. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityRick Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Well, join the club pal! I had similar experiences trying to find some one to install the selenoid kit on my '95 STS for a reasonable price. Most trans shops didn't want to do anything but sell me a rebuild for $1,500 - $2,000. Even shops that claimed to be familiar with the T480E's common problems wanted me to believe the trans had to be pulled to install the kit to the tune of $600 - $900. What was ironic was that two places that recommended a rebuild were well known chain stores with promenently displayd posters touting their mission statement and customer guarentees. These state that no unnecessary repairs will ever be recommended, blah, blah, blah. What a load of horse hockey! The local Caddy dealer wanted 4 hrs labor @ $80 per hour, the best rate I could find was 3 hrs @ $60 per hour. I have read posts where the member got the install done for less than $100! As you can see by the detailed instructions, several members have successfully done the job themselves. There is some merit to the peace of mind that a dealership repair with guarentee gives you for not that much more the the best price you can haggle out around town. Plus, with the tales of flying clips and check balls, you don't want someones first time doing this procedure to be on your car. Makes ya wonder about all those poor folks that have this simple problem and don't have access to the wealth of knowledge this sites members and archives provide. These members are just fabulous about sharing tips, experiences, links, you name it. Makes it easy to decide what works best for you in each different situation. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Makes ya wonder about all those poor folks that have this simple problem and don't have access to the wealth of knowledge this sites members and archives provide. These members are just fabulous about sharing tips, experiences, links, you name it. Makes it easy to decide what works best for you in each different situation. Good luck. It's been a while since I posted an observation like that, but we are indeed fortunate, aren't we? That's why I pass out the caddyinfo bussiness cards Bruce and I had made up awhile back. I put them on evey drivers door window of Cadillacs I come across. There is usually a pile on the counter at Cadauto (the recycler), and I just plain old walk up tp people with Cadillacs and offer them one. I figure if they save just one guy an unecessary nightmare repair, they've done their job. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac STS Posted March 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 what does a tranny gasket look like??? also will the service manual help too rather than just having the step by step instructions that willie posted? i think having both the step by step instructions and the serive manual will be a great combo to tackle this thing....im getting ready....come saturday morning its on!!!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...item=2470629175 That bid is for VOLUME 1 only and unfortunately, that's all that's showing on Ebay at the moment for a 1994 Seville. I actually found one a my local kragen only $20 I know i already asked this but I'm thinking most of you missed it...what does the tranny gasket look like???? also how would i change my trans fluid??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 If you are referring to the transmission pan gasket, it is the shape of the transmission pan. Be sure to get the gasket from the dealer as it has metal spacers in the holes to control the amount of crush. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 what does a tranny gasket look like??? For the 4T-80E tranny in my '93 STS, the OEM tranny gasket is re-newable. It is some sort of plastic-coated steel body with locating holes molded into it. Just clean it up and re-use it, very durable and expensive, about $ 60 from the dealer. If you buy an aftermarket filter/gasket kit, it will probably come with a cheap cork gasket, I pitched mine and re-used the OEM. Now I did replace the spacer plate between the valve body split because the black coating was chipping on the steel shim, this was about $ 65 and took two days to get. It does not need to be replaced if visual inspection shows its in tact, TAKE GREAT CARE TAKING IT OFF IF IT STICKS, TO PRESERVE IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 also will the service manual help too rather than just having the step by step instructions that willie posted? Cadillac STS (I was confused on my first post and thought "The Raven" had started the post), Its up to you, relative to your "comfort zone". I have posted this procedure several times and remember at least two occasions where the person stated they had used my instructions and successfully performed the repair, after the fact. I did note a person that had performed the repair on their own, with no instructions, and were sorry they had, and were looking for additional help. The key is to take your time, remember the locations of the various lengths of valve body bolts, remember the locations of the check balls and DO NOT LOSE the check balls or solenoid retainer springs. The job is relatively easy (and messy), if you are mechanically inclined. Again, about 4-1/2 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBuckley Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Cadillac STS the pan gasket on my 94 STS was reuseable, it was just like Willie Hank described his post, it was a rubber coated steel gasket with locating nipples molded in it. The manual is a help, but you can do this job by just following the steps listed in Willie Hanks post. You really need the factory service manual, the 94 seville is 2 book set, volume 1 is engine and powertrain and volume 2 is body, electronics and everthing else. If you can't find a manual, email me and I will scan and email the revelant pages to you. I just did my solenoids 3 weeks ago, it took me about 3 hours to complete, if you are comfortable working with cars you can do this, if not then go with the dealer, that is really not a bad price, you will really have to do the leg work to chenk out the local tranny shops and then as you have found out most of them won't do just the solenoid replacement usually for one of several reasons, either they don't know the 4t80e trans, or they are afraid that if that is all they did and your tranny screwed up after the work that you would be in their face telling them they screwd your tranny, so they opt for the safe routine of complete overhaul. If you have nay questions drop me a note. John John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 There are three torque values for the pan bolts. If you don't have them, I will look them up in the manual and post them for you. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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