gabbylgm Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Please help me, as I'm at a total loss. My 91 Seville had been sitting for a few months (switched to another vehicle with better gas mileage ) and it wouldn't start. I jumped off the battery, it started up, I let it run for about 45 minutes, turned it off, immediately tried to start it again, and got absolutely nothing. I took the battery to the shop, had it tested and fully charged, and still nothing. When I turn the key, nothing at all happens, no sounds, no cranking, nothing. I had been having problems with the ignition right before I quit driving it. I had it rebuilt, but it had broken again almost immediately, and the mechanic was going to have to get one out of another car instead of trying to rebuild it again. However, I can't understand why it went from starting and running, and then just nothing at all. I've checked all the battery connections and that seems to be fine. I ran the codes, but I don't think I know how to properly 'clear' them to be able to start over. They were E052, B120, B448, B552, R026, R061, then ECM? I used the HIGH and OFF buttons to do what I think was a clearing of codes, and while it now says no BCM or ECM codes, but R026 and R061 still show up as history. Can anyone give me any help or hope??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 P052 (E052) ....................................................... PCM Memory Reset B120 ................................... Twilight Sentinel Delay Pot Circuit Problem B448 ...................... Very Low A/C Refrigerant Pressure Condition [A/C Clutch] B552 .................................................... BCM Memory Reset Indicator R026 ................................................. Driver Initiator Circuit Open R051 ........................................................ Frontal Crash Detected All of these can be set by a bad battery, battery cable, or alternator. The R codes are air bag codes, and seem to reflect a frontal impact hard enough to possibly deploy the air bags. If the air bag codes were caused by a sensor or electrical problem, maybe you could just clear them, but apparently you can't clear air bag codes without a scan tool. Messing with the ignition of a car with GM theft control, with the resistor in the key, is not a simple process. I'm not sure that this is a problem because you usually get DIC messages and codes set when the theft control suppresses starting. It does sound to me like it might be the PRND21 position switch. Move the shift lever around with the key in Start and see if you can get the solenoid to click, or even the car to start. If so, you can have that switch adjusted. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Try running a jumper (12 gage is fine) from positive terminal of the battery to starter's positive. Be careful, do not touch the body, exhaust manifold etc. to avoid a "thermal event". If it works, replace the starter solenoid. Do not drive with purely secured jumper. Besides, clean the ground (replace star washer, stud if necessary)on the engine block right by the starter. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 I assume the battery was load tested as well as tested for a charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabbylgm Posted November 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Thanks so much. We've tried all the suggestions, but it's still dead as a doornail. There has never been a wreck or impact of any type to cause the air bag codes. (The one was R061 instead of R051, but still an air bag code I guess because of the R.) We tried moving the shift lever, but couldn't get any reaction at all. We tried running the jumper to the starter, and still no type of response at all. Cleaned the ground and checked tightness/cleaned washer and stud. I'm not sure about the battery being load tested. I'll call the shop tomorrow and check about that. Do you think it would do any good at all to test it with another battery? All the dashlights come on when I engage the key, but as soon as I turn it the next step to try and start it, everything goes black (except for the Brake, ABS and Service Engine Soon lights). I'm still trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 I'm not sure about the battery being load tested. I'll call the shop tomorrow and check about that. Do you think it would do any good at all to test it with another battery? Absolutely! Could well be a dead cell or two from what you discribe. A load test should show that, but it could still have 12v. Swapping in a known good battery will either rule it out for sure or condemn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabbylgm Posted November 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Would attempting to jump off the battery (which we did even after getting it back) preclude any problem with a dead cell or potential bad battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 All the dashlights come on when I engage the key, but as soon as I turn it the next step to try and start it, everything goes black (except for the Brake, ABS and Service Engine Soon lights). I'm still trying. "Everything" goes black when you crank? It would appear that your battery and its cables are capable of supplying that minimum amount of power required to illuminate "everything," but just can't manage to supply the much larger amount of current necessary to crank the engine. Looks like only two possibilities here: the battery or the cables. You've removed/reinstalled the battery, so I'll assume the battery connections are secure. You've run a cable from the (+) battery to the starter motor so it seems you've ruled out the (+) battery cable. You've checked the (-) battery cable so that is ruled out. That leaves the battery. My bet! Of course, it's possible the starter/solenoid went suddenly south, but that's kinda unlikely. It would have to be shorted to account for "everything" going black. A VERY rare occurrence! In the third paragraph of your original post you said: "I had it rebuilt." What exactly is "it?" Don't stop trying! Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Would attempting to jump off the battery (which we did even after getting it back) preclude any problem with a dead cell or potential bad battery? I would take the battery completely out of the equation by swapping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobnsue2 Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 QUOTE(gabbylgm @ Nov 7 2006, 10:18 PM) * All the dashlights come on when I engage the key, but as soon as I turn it the next step to try and start it, everything goes black (except for the Brake, ABS and Service Engine Soon lights). I'm still trying. blink.gif ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think it sounds like a bad connection at one of the battery cables. The double cables at the battery get corroded between the two. Not necessarily green and fuzzy, just dark. they need to be cleaned. Around the battery mount there are several black wires to bolts that are a lot of the grounds for the systems. Check them all especially the fatter wires. They can be shined up to contact better. When my 91 had weird problems that couldn't be diagnosed, I took a jumper cable from the engine to the battery negative post and it worked so I knew it was a bad ground. Bob B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabbylgm Posted November 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 I would like to thank all of you for your help and recap the some of the things I have tried. Maybe I left out that the head lights have been left on while starting the engine and when I turn on the key [To Start] the head lights stay on without any dimming and the interior lights go completely out. I have put a tester on the positive side of the starter and the negative side to the negative ground on the engine and it showed 12.2 volts the same voltage that the battery reads. I have also taken the jumper cables and connected the negative from the battery and clipped the other end directly to the starter. Taken a wire from positive side of battery to red group of wires on the starter and even touched the purple wire on the starter Tried moving the shift lever back and forth And out of desperation I took a screw driver and used it to turn the fly wheel checking to see if the engine was lock up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Maybe I left out that the head lights have been left on while starting the engine and when I turn on the key [To Start] the head lights stay on without any dimming and the interior lights go completely out. Maybe you did! Okay, your battery is capable of supplying the 20 or so amps necessary to light the headlamps. Clearly it's not dead. Your headlamps do not dim when you turn the key to START. Clearly no current is being drawn from the battery, otherwise the headlamps WOULD dim. You have good voltage at the starter and when you say you even touched the purple wire on the starter I'm guessing you mean the solenoid terminal. That should engage the starter. You seem to have voltage available to the starter yet it is drawing no current. Bad starter. There is the question of the interior lights however . . . . but it could be that they normally disengage during the start cycle. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Bad Solenoid? Try jumping the starter. If you put a screwdriver between the POWER line the starter lead, the starter will turn. The solenoid, has two functions, it pushes the starter drive into the flywheel and at full extension it connects the 12V battery power to the starter lead. If you solenoid is dead, nothing will happen. I must admit however that, a dead solenoid is not the common failure mode, typically the internal switch goes bad first, but its worth considering. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Bad Solenoid? Try jumping the starter. If you put a screwdriver between the POWER line the starter lead, the starter will turn. The solenoid, has two functions, it pushes the starter drive into the flywheel and at full extension it connects the 12V battery power to the starter lead. If you solenoid is dead, nothing will happen. I must admit however that, a dead solenoid is not the common failure mode, typically the internal switch goes bad first, but its worth considering. I thought that's what he meant when he said he "touched the purple wire on the starter." Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 The small purple wire energizes the solenoid, if he has a bad solenoid, it won't activate. If he puts power to that wire, and the solenoid activates he has a key problem or a security system problem. I am talking about jumping between the 12V stud, and the started lead, I have them circled in the pic I poste above, to see if the starter turns. It will freewheel, it won't engage, this is just a test. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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