gimpyestrada Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 P039 (E039) Torque Converter Clutch/Viscous Converter Clutch Engagement Problem I have a 94 DeVille and I have been experiencing this error code for at least a year. I am now looking to sell the car, and I am worried that I will have to sell it super cheap if I don't get this fixed. There are a couple of suggestions that seem to suggest easier fixes, but I am unsure if my car could be fixed by them. I know that when at speed, my RPMs do not drop back off when I stop accelerating. Does this mean that I actually have a broken converter clutch? Could any of the simpler ( and less $) fixes solve this or am I one of the unfortunate ones that would actually need to replace the part? This board is great. Thanks! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 P039 (E039) Torque Converter Clutch/Viscous Converter Clutch Engagement Problem I have a 94 DeVille and I have been experiencing this error code for at least a year. I am now looking to sell the car, and I am worried that I will have to sell it super cheap if I don't get this fixed. There are a couple of suggestions that seem to suggest easier fixes, but I am unsure if my car could be fixed by them. I know that when at speed, my RPMs do not drop back off when I stop accelerating. Does this mean that I actually have a broken converter clutch? Could any of the simpler ( and less $) fixes solve this or am I one of the unfortunate ones that would actually need to replace the part? This board is great. Thanks! Matt A lot of people drive with that code for years with no ill effects. Fixing it is going to be expensive and is not worth the money spent. The only thing which will be affected with VCC not engaging is the fuel economy. You may expect some 15% increase of fuel usage. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 You may expect some 15% increase of fuel usage. I think you meant DECREASE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 You may expect some 15% increase of fuel usage. I think you ment DECREASE. No, I meant the increase of fuel usage per mile. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 I’ve been driving with the same code for about 80K miles. Since the torque converter doesn’t lockup all the time there’s slipping and lazy shifting into 4th gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 You may expect some 15% increase of fuel usage. I think you ment DECREASE. No, I meant the increase of fuel usage per mile. Opps, sorry. I saw "fuel usage" but read fuel milage. DUH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 I used to get the P039 code from time to time with my '94 Eldorado. It's really nothing to worry about. The P039 code it not at all uncommon in older Cadillacs. If yours is intermittent, I would just clear it and forget it. Most buyers don't know how to pull the codes in these cars, anyway. I certainly wouldn't sell the car cheap just because of the code. Happiness is owning a Cadillac with no codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpyestrada Posted October 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 I used to get the P039 code from time to time with my '94 Eldorado. It's really nothing to worry about. The P039 code it not at all uncommon in older Cadillacs. If yours is intermittent, I would just clear it and forget it. Most buyers don't know how to pull the codes in these cars, anyway. I certainly wouldn't sell the car cheap just because of the code. Should I even tell the buyer that it has a broken torque converter? They will eventually see the check engine light... Should this code get stored? I have a Tech 1 and when I go looking for the code (after a check engine light) it isn't there. The only time I can see the code is if I check it while the check engine is still on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Let your conscience be your guide . . . . There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 I used to get the P039 code from time to time with my '94 Eldorado. It's really nothing to worry about. The P039 code it not at all uncommon in older Cadillacs. If yours is intermittent, I would just clear it and forget it. Most buyers don't know how to pull the codes in these cars, anyway. I certainly wouldn't sell the car cheap just because of the code. Should I even tell the buyer that it has a broken torque converter? They will eventually see the check engine light... Should this code get stored? I have a Tech 1 and when I go looking for the code (after a check engine light) it isn't there. The only time I can see the code is if I check it while the check engine is still on. If I ever sell my car I will tell the buyer EVERYTHING I KNOW about the car, the good and the bad. Let them make an educated decision. Hopefully honesty will be appreciated, and I will sleep well. In your case why not to tell what caused SES? You know now it is harmless, and you can direct a potential buyer to this site for reference. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Should I even tell the buyer that it has a broken torque converter? They will eventually see the check engine light... You do not have a "broken torque converter". You have a failed solenoid. It simply locks the converter to the engine above 41 MPH. Without it, the converter will slip slightly causing your RPM's to be about 100 - 200 higher at any given speed, thus you will loose about 1 MPG. No big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkz71 Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Here's the TSB for P039 TSB# 87-65-17 DTC P039 Set When Driving Up Slight Grade After Cold Start Subject: DTC P039 Set When Driving Up Slight Grade After Cold Start (Diagnose/Install New PCM) Models: 1993-95 Cadillac Eldorado, Seville 1994-95 Cadillac Concours, Deville With 4.6L Engine (Vin Y - RPO LD8) Condition: DTC P039, Torque Converter Clutch Engagment, May Set When Driving Up A Slight Grade After A Cold Start. Correction: A PCM Calibration Enhancement Has Been Released For The Above Listed Vehicles. If A Vehicle Is Encountered With This Condition, And All Of The Diagnostic Procedures Listed In The Service Manual Have Been Performed With No Resulting Correction, Then Update The Vehicle With The Applicable Calibration Listed Below. Parts Information: Part Number Description 16266755 1993 PCM PROM, 16266762 1994 PCM PROM, 16266767 1995 PCM PROM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thu Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Ranger, I read somewhere that the problem may not be the solenoid, but the VCC itself. I recall reading that sometimes tranny fluid contaminates the silicone fluid. Is this right? 2003 Seville STS 43k miles with the Bose Sound, Navigation System, HID Headlamps, and MagneRide 1993 DeVille. Looks great inside and out! 298k miles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 FWIW, I never heard that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95SLS Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 I had that same problem, All I did was change the fluid add some Lucas Transmission additive and it's been like 70K since. Back when I needed a new radiator, I also added a cooler. I seriously think it was triggered by the heat because it happened when I was towing. Then for like 6 months off and on after that until I did all this. Now, no codes since. My code was intermittent, I thought it was the harness and this and that. Never found anything wrong. MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Ranger, I read somewhere that the problem may not be the solenoid, but the VCC itself. I recall reading that sometimes tranny fluid contaminates the silicone fluid. Is this right? thu, I seem to recall that as well but fortunately, I haven't had any torque converter problems to become educated about it yet... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 Should I even tell the buyer that it has a broken torque converter? They will eventually see the check engine light... Per an earlier post, your torque converter isn't broken. You have an occasional torque converter clutch engagement issue. Bear in mind you are selling a 12 year old car with somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 miles on it. Any reasonable buyer should not expect that such a car would be in perfect condition. Your car probably has many flaws that are common to cars of this age and milage. You could point out to a potential buyer every dent and scratch in the body and every crack and worn spot in the upholstery, You could warn him or her that the clear coat is likely to start showing some sunburn soon if it isn't already. You could point out that the struts, strut bearings, stabilizer bar bushings, water hoses, belts, plugs, plug wires, battery, battery cables, water pump, and so on, and so on may need attention soon. All 12 year old cars have issues, a lot of 12 year cars have check engine lights that come on, and a lot of 12 year old Cadillacs have occasional torque converter clutch engagement problems. If a buyer is not prepared to accept these realities, he or she should be in a dealer's showroom and not out looking at used cars. The seller of a used car shouldn't deliberately try to screw a buyer. He or she should point out material defects that he or she knows will render the car unsafe or undrivable in the near future. The occasional P039 code issue does not fall into that category. When I sold my '94 Eldo, I didn't mention the P039 (It didn't even cross my mind). I was very candid about the major engine problem that was developing and priced the car accordingly. I have absolutely no difficulty sleeping at night. If I was a buyer looking at your car, if I liked the color, options, etc. If the car ran well, handled properly, and seemed to be in good condition. If the air conditioner, windows, seats, and all the other important devices worked. If I pulled the codes and found the P039, it would have very little effect on my opinion of the car (although I would probably use the code as a negotiating tool when we started talking price). These are just the thoughts of a guy that has owned and driven three Cadillacs over the past ten years. Happiness is owning a Cadillac with no codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpyestrada Posted October 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Here's the TSB for P039 TSB# 87-65-17 DTC P039 Set When Driving Up Slight Grade After Cold Start Subject: DTC P039 Set When Driving Up Slight Grade After Cold Start (Diagnose/Install New PCM) Models: 1993-95 Cadillac Eldorado, Seville 1994-95 Cadillac Concours, Deville With 4.6L Engine (Vin Y - RPO LD8) Condition: DTC P039, Torque Converter Clutch Engagment, May Set When Driving Up A Slight Grade After A Cold Start. Correction: A PCM Calibration Enhancement Has Been Released For The Above Listed Vehicles. If A Vehicle Is Encountered With This Condition, And All Of The Diagnostic Procedures Listed In The Service Manual Have Been Performed With No Resulting Correction, Then Update The Vehicle With The Applicable Calibration Listed Below. Parts Information: Part Number Description 16266755 1993 PCM PROM, 16266762 1994 PCM PROM, 16266767 1995 PCM PROM How do I tell this to my mechanic? I was told the only way to fix this was to drop the transmission... Would a dealer know how to try this fix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkz71 Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 You can print out the TSB and show it to him. The bottom line to the TSB is you replace the transmission prom in the PCM part # 16266762 for a 94. Now this isn't the only thing that can cause P039, however since the new prom is only $44 from GM parts direct it's worth a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpyestrada Posted November 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 You can print out the TSB and show it to him. The bottom line to the TSB is you replace the transmission prom in the PCM part # 16266762 for a 94. Now this isn't the only thing that can cause P039, however since the new prom is only $44 from GM parts direct it's worth a shot. Is there an official repository of these TSB's somewhere that I can get to? Or is it the kind of thing that they will have access to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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