Found Tracer Dye in the Oil

[The Fred]

Those bums need to make this right with you..

They obviously led you on and on and had you to throw reapairs at it while they had no idea of what ailed the car..

Have another shop verify that the repairs on your invoices were actually done.

Do as has been said and have the tracer dye presence to be documented and I'd go one further by having them change all of the fluids and introduce the tracer dye into the system themselves (not at the dealership- at a different shop. Be sure they have the proper credentials since you might need to use this in a court room)

I'm also sure the local media would just love a story about a poor innocent little woman who was taken advanrage of by the big bad automobile mechanics with red eyes and fiery breathing and seventeen arms

If I spent 3000, gave 3000 to the "experts" and they didn't do anything good for my car I'd be livid and insane like a madman and maniac.. that's wrong and I hate that.

As an aside I would say that I have owned and known of many many 4.5 and 4.9 automobiles and they are not expensive to maintain.. one problem doesn't make it a bad car. When my 1990 Seville was overheating someone told me damned Cadillacs they're a money trap, well, I paid $1000 for her and I've put about $350 into her since I've owned the crazy thing.

The overheating turned out to be the battery sitting on the return coolant line.

I am sure that would have become a similar thousands of dollars type of issue at the dealership.

Dealerships make me sick.

Other similar automobiles I've owned would include an 89 Eldo, 89 Deville, another 90 Seville, a 1991 Seville, a 1991 Eldo and several other Cadillacs. They've never been "money traps" to me.. my ex wifes import car sure was. It didn't break down often but when it did LOOK OUT!

The only "major" problems I ever had was a water pump in my 1991 Eldorado the transmission went out in the same car.. I did go through six sets of good used tires in 2 months before the transmission went out, so, you can imagine who caused that I had recently lost my woman and so I was mad and angry and maniacal and peeling out and burning up tires had been settling down my nerves. On the other hand you should see what it took to stop the engine in that car- I got mad with the car and took the oil and coolant out and revved the motor to heck and it lasted a long long long time even under that stress.

Don't give up on Caddies yet

[Marika]

I know, I have to gather up my evidence and I'll be on their a$$es soon enough. I really don't see why I should be spending all this money and not getting proper service for it.

Today's my damned birthday too. Talk about bad luck huh?

Today I discovered something odd. I did a highway drive and found after I stopped the car, a stream of bubbles rising up in the recovery tank but after a while, the stream stopped even with the engine running at idle. Could there be an internal leak in the engine that's only showing itself under very high pressure?

The other question I have is this: The mechanic at Circle Brake was the ONLY mechanic who was able to claim the engine had an internal leak WITHOUT running any diagnostic tests. How would he know this? Can I suspect that maybe he did something to the engine to damage it or cause the leak? He was pushing me to get a $5,000 engine rebuild but I instead went to the dealership for a second opinion, they assured me the engine was fine and did repairs such as new hoses, radiator, starter motor, thermostat, wiring for the thermostat, etc., but they assured me they pressure tested the system and everything was fine and that "whatever tests the dealership mechanic did, the engine is fine".

I think I'm being fair wanting my car to be properly repaired after spending so much money at the dealership. Meanwhile, I've got the male chauvinists in town here where I live, they are telling me I need a doctor. What a bunch of misogynist jerks.

[BodybyFisher]

Since it was not bubbling like that in the reservoir when you got it back and while they had it, it seems that your engine has gotten much worse. It is entirely possible that when they had it it did not show an internal leak. It is beginning to sound more like you are having head gasket problems. Maybe the cooling supplement stopped the symptoms for a short time.. There is no reason for the dealer to hide these problems, hell they could have said it needs an engine and be done with it.. I suspect that when the dealer had your car, it was the beginning of your head gasket problem, at that point it could have been intermittant and NOT showed on testing... Try not to assume that the big bad dealer was out to screw you..

The other guy, he was guessing forget him.. He made an assumption, in this instance he was correct..

This is one of the reasons dealers stop working on older cars

[BodybyFisher]

One more thing, its being implied that you spent $3,000 for this overheating problem... When you get a chance, itemize that bill here for us, it involved quite a lot of other work if I recall..

The main thing that bothers me is that you said they ignored your calls.

There is an old saying, that you draw more flys with honey than you do with shi*. I would first approach them nicely to see what they can do. Keep in mind that if they did all of the testing and nothing showed up, the problem was intermittant and they did not see it. In that instance they are innocent.

[The Fred]

I thought that they had told her that her engine was fine..

And based on that, she decided to make these repairs they recommended.

Isn't that what happened?

[Cadillac Jim]

I think I'm being fair wanting my car to be properly repaired after spending so much money at the dealership. Meanwhile, I've got the male chauvinists in town here where I live, they are telling me I need a doctor. What a bunch of misogynist jerks.

What you might need is a woman lawyer. Bias against women is pervasive but invisible, rarely manifesting itself overtly except when significant sums are involved and the woman is seen as having little recourse. Perhaps a male relative or friend is a better idea, and more in the line of honey vs. vinegar as BodybyFisher says. I assisted my sister, once her husband died, all her life when she ran into it. A phone call with a male voice evaporated all irrationality, even if from another state.

I thoroughly agree with BodybyFisher that the dealer is not likely doing anything wrong intentionally. It's just not good business. I haven't ever seen intentional chicanery at a dealership, although a certain number of mistakes are inevitable.

You are talking about a 1992 STS with the 4.9 engine? That motor doesn't have head gasket problems often. However, when the leakage happens when the engine is under load and results in bubbles in the surge tank, which is an indication that the head gasket is leaking.

You can get remanufactured 4.9 liter Cadillac engines for a lot less than $5K (about $3.5K, I believe) and rebuilt ones for a lot less than that. The durability of these engines makes the used engine with 50,000 miles on it sound very attractive, too.

[MAC]

I thoroughly agree with BodybyFisher that the dealer is not likely doing anything wrong intentionally. It's just not good business. I haven't ever seen intentional chicanery at a dealership, although a certain number of mistakes are inevitable.

I agree it's best to try to be non-confrontational. I'm not in a position to draw conclusions; however, if the dealer misdiagnosed a blown head gasket then it should fix the problem at no charge.

I’m curious as to what diagnosis was done since Marika was assured that everything was fine. Did the dealer assume the head gaskets were good or did it actually check the head gaskets? If they said the engine was in good mechanical condition but failed to consider the head gaskets before they made such as statement, it would seem to me that their assurances were premature and unwarranted.

I think I told this story once before, but a few years ago my brother brought his 92 Park Avenue to a Buick dealer to diagnose a stalling problem. The technician said it was the coil pack(s) so he replaced the entire coil pack assembly for about $480. It turned out to be a faulty crankshaft sensor, which obviously cost more money to repair. Should my brother have been responsible for the misdiagnosis? I called the dealer and spoke to the technician and made sure he know about his $480 misdiagnosis--Idiot.

[Marika]

Since it was not bubbling like that in the reservoir when you got it back and while they had it, it seems that your engine has gotten much worse. It is entirely possible that when they had it it did not show an internal leak. It is beginning to sound more like you are having head gasket problems. Maybe the cooling supplement stopped the symptoms for a short time.. There is no reason for the dealer to hide these problems, hell they could have said it needs an engine and be done with it.. I suspect that when the dealer had your car, it was the beginning of your head gasket problem, at that point it could have been intermittant and NOT showed on testing... Try not to assume that the big bad dealer was out to screw you..

The other guy, he was guessing forget him.. He made an assumption, in this instance he was correct..

This is one of the reasons dealers stop working on older cars

Actually, it was bubbling when I got it back from the dealership but the dealership told me that there was still air in the engine that had to come out and that I should watch the antifreeze level and replace it as it went down. The dealership said trapped air was a problem with the 4.9 litre engine. Apparently, the bubbling never stopped and the loss of antifreeze never stopped either.

The mechanic at Circle Brake told me the engine head gasket was no good and I needed to rebuild the engine for $5,000. I took it to the dealership for a second opinion. The dealership said there was nothing wrong with the engine and they proceeded to do other repairs on the car. Had I known the engine was in fact defective, I would have brought the car to Headmasters and let them rebuild the engine for $3,000. I was trying to make an educated decision as to how to deal with the engine based upon what one mechanic and a second opinion mechanic (the dealership) told me. The dealership gave me the wrong information, but they were happy to take my $3,000 for other repairs. I'm not happy about this, that's for sure. I depended on the dealership to give me accurate information, I trusted that their "tests" were going to reveal a problem if there was one, and now I realize that the engine probably had a bad head gasket from day one and the dealership "picked my pockets".

[Cadillac Jim]

That's the thing about a 1992 -- it has OBD I. A dealer should have the scan tools for OBD I on hand. If not, I've seen them online, PC-based software with a box that has a long cable to the OBD I connector and a USB port for the PC, that do the same things for about $200. With a scan tool, they should be able to tell the difference between a coil pack problem and a crankshaft sensor signal problem -- or a head leakage problem form a head wedge problem.

I've found that with my 1997 ETC, the dealer isn't always the best place to take it. I had a head leakage problem with intermittent overheating beginning in January, and I took it to a radiator shop. You show a dealer an overheating problem in an aging Northstar that you bought new (the computer tells them that, and probably much more), they smell trade-in. I went to a radiator shop and a good mechanic to diagnose my problem, and the first thing the mechanic did was a pressure test. He said, correctly, that my problem was just beginning and that I could probably drive it around town for at least another year without problems. However, I have freeway commutes in freely-flowing 65 mph zones every day and it just wouldn't do that anymore. I opted for a remanufactured engine because the car is in excellent condition and I plan to drive it for many more years. If budget is at all an issue, the used engine for $500 is really attractive because the risk is low.

Marika -- you should know that GM has an unconditional 1-year warranty on all work. If you paid $3K to have an overheating problem fixed, then you can have it fixed free under the service warranty. That's why people are asking you to tell us what's on the dealer invoices for the repairs.

[epricedright]

Marika, intentional or not, I feel you were ripped off for 3K. Let's be real here...you wouldn't be the first woman to get ripped off by a dealership.

You are still having coolant loss. I haven't read your original post lately, but that was your original problem, correct? The problem was apparently misdiagnosed and not fixed. No way should you be liable for their 3K mis-diagnosis. You have played soft-ball with them long enough....they're hanging up the phone on you. Time to play hard-ball! I'd first get them that certified letter MAC suggested and get all your documentation together. After getting all your ducks in a row, take them to court.

Did you tell them about the coolant smell you noticed as soon as they were done working on it? What was their reply? What written warranty were you given? Did you ever take it back in to let them look at it?

[Marika]

Marika, intentional or not, I feel you were ripped off for 3K. Let's be real here...you wouldn't be the first woman to get ripped off by a dealership.

You are still having coolant loss. I haven't read your original post lately, but that was your original problem, correct? The problem was apparently misdiagnosed and not fixed. No way should you be liable for their 3K mis-diagnosis. You have played soft-ball with them long enough....they're hanging up the phone on you. Time to play hard-ball! I'd first get them that certified letter MAC suggested and get all your documentation together. After getting all your ducks in a row, take them to court.

Did you tell them about the coolant smell you noticed as soon as they were done working on it? What was their reply? What written warranty were you given? Did you ever take it back in to let them look at it?

When I got the car back from them, I told them I smelled antifreeze. They said it was burn off from the engine because the hoses were changed and of course, antifreeze was spilled. Weeks went by, the bubbling continued, the antifreeze level falls, I call them and tell them it's still a problem and they hang up on me. GM should only take a look at how some of their dealerships lie to and mistreat customers to wonder why no one wants to buy their cars anymore.

As for the bills, what I'll do is take them to the office tomorrow, I'll scan them and post them for everyone to see them. It makes interesting reading.

[Cadillac Jim]

...I call them and tell them it's still a problem and they hang up on me. ...

It's time to escalate. Using the honey vs. vinegar approach, I would start with the manager of the service department, then the manager/owner of the dealership. Failing quick response, I would go direct to GM Customer Relations, still with patience and courtesy.

I have found that posting things online, with no links on its own web page with its own URL, has an amaizing effect on producing serious action quickly. I was rear-ended recently and things were moving slowly, so I put up a web page on the accident with its own URL, and gave out the URL to the insurance people. It's amazing how well and how quickly things fell into place. I have a nice detailed car now with a new Borla mufflers and 1994 STS tips (I think) and am running with zero codes.

[BodybyFisher]

If you paid $3K to have an overheating problem fixed, then you can have it fixed free under the service warranty. That's why people are asking you to tell us what's on the dealer invoices for the repairs.[/b]

Marika, on May 28, 2006, you said this:

Yes, the dealership added the tablets and they did a really good job actually. This car is for some reason a real witch.

on May 7, 2006, you said this:

Pressure testing the system, the dealership says it's fine and holding the pressure. They tested for hydrocarbons in the radiator and there were none so they are confident that the head gasket is fine on the 4.9 engine.

on May 3, 2006, you said this:

The dealership can't find the problem. They are going to change the thermostat and the gasket for the thermostat and then they said they are going to hook up a special computer to the car that will monitor its activities in real time while they take it out on the road and try to get it to overheat. They checked for hydrocarbons in the radiator and found NONE. They are positive the gaskets on the engine are good and that there's nothing wrong with the engine.

Again, lets not mis-state what the $3000 covered (it was related to more than just cooling system issues)! NOTE: FIRST visit was $2,233.45 as follows:

They replaced all wiring harnesses for coolant temp sensors and whatever else is attached to those wires < your words,

Complete Tune up

Replace broken front engine mount

Replaced Starter

Replaced Thermostat

Replaced Turnsignal Switch (cancel cam is part of it)

Fixed Horn

Charged AC system

Provided a 2006 CTS for 7 days (not actually free)

Something tells me there was some diagnostic time in there also, along with coolant, coolant supplement. Did they pull the water pump to check to see if impeller was loose as was previously noted?

Total $2,233.45 (on or about, May 12, 2006)

This was your final statement regarding Brogan at the time:

I like this dealership, I'm going to stick with them. Their mechanics are also "older" men which tells me, they are very familiar with "older" technology.

Now, my only thoughts are, should I just leave Circle Brake alone or sue them for all the money I've given them in the past for all their misdiagnosing and charging me a MASSIVE fortune of money because of it?

Then on June 2, 2006 (second visit), you needed a new RADIATOR as end tanks were leaking.

If you recall you said this:

I wasn't surprised either that it started to leak. I had a feeling the older portions of the system would experience increased fatigue because of its now being able to hold the proper pressure.

But more than the radiator was replaced:

Diagnose cooling system labor $330.00

52493404 Radiator $349.44

Coolent/Flush $44.30

Cooler Lines Leaking labor $200.00

25660319 Cooler Line $77.68

25630622 Cooler Line $61.27

25533913 Gasket $1.37

Noise under car

Road test and lubed multi bushings & Links $0.00

EPA Rip Off $20.00

Tax Man blood transfusion $65.05

Total $1,149.11 (for second visit)

So while it was over +$3000 it was two separate visits and a hell of a lot of work and diagnosis was done.

Also, lets not forget that two other mechanics looked at your car (one recommended by me) and they did not find hydrocarbons or pressure leaks... So I am NOT surprised that the same happened at the dealer. It sounded like it was an intermittant issue that hid from everyone.

Having work done at the dealer with an older car is the kiss of death. The dealer is charging big money for LABOR and you are paying DEALER parts prices NOT GMOTORS or ROCKAUTO. I have said more than once that if you don't do your own work, to own these cars outside of warranty is prohibitively expense. Its like going to the doctor without health insurance. The older they get the more that needs to be replaced due to age, heat, cold, drying out, etc. It got to the point where I could not keep up with my 91 Seville problems and I practically rebuilt that car. AND to be honest with you its beginning to happen on my 1996 that I have POURED money into...while doing all the work myself!

Don't get me wrong, I feel for you, I really do. But setting aside my personal feelings and how badly I feel for you, it was important to properly FRAME this issue. Again, I will work to get you that 4.9 with 50,000 miles on it, I might be able to get them to do better than $400 also. Why dont you see what Richters wants to replace the engine for you... I'll have it shipped directly to Richters... Mike

BUT..... again, the problem with replacing the engine at this point is.... what is next, the transmission, struts, windows, etc... I DO feel for you, but this is the negative about owning an older car have having to pay for repairs.. Its not good. I will help you ANY WAY I can, just let me know how..

[Marika]

If you paid $3K to have an overheating problem fixed, then you can have it fixed free under the service warranty. That's why people are asking you to tell us what's on the dealer invoices for the repairs.[/b]

Marika, on May 28, 2006, you said this:

Yes, the dealership added the tablets and they did a really good job actually. This car is for some reason a real witch.

on May 7, 2006, you said this:

Pressure testing the system, the dealership says it's fine and holding the pressure. They tested for hydrocarbons in the radiator and there were none so they are confident that the head gasket is fine on the 4.9 engine.

on May 3, 2006, you said this:

The dealership can't find the problem. They are going to change the thermostat and the gasket for the thermostat and then they said they are going to hook up a special computer to the car that will monitor its activities in real time while they take it out on the road and try to get it to overheat. They checked for hydrocarbons in the radiator and found NONE. They are positive the gaskets on the engine are good and that there's nothing wrong with the engine.

Again, lets not mis-state what the $3000 covered (it was related to more than just cooling system issues)! NOTE: FIRST visit was $2,233.45 as follows:

They replaced all wiring harnesses for coolant temp sensors and whatever else is attached to those wires < your words,

Complete Tune up

Replace broken front engine mount

Replaced Starter

Replaced Thermostat

Replaced Turnsignal Switch (cancel cam is part of it)

Fixed Horn

Charged AC system

Provided a 2006 CTS for 7 days (not actually free)

Something tells me there was some diagnostic time in there also, along with coolant, coolant supplement. Did they pull the water pump to check to see if impeller was loose as was previously noted?

Total $2,233.45 (on or about, May 12, 2006)

This was your final statement regarding Brogan at the time:

I like this dealership, I'm going to stick with them. Their mechanics are also "older" men which tells me, they are very familiar with "older" technology.

Now, my only thoughts are, should I just leave Circle Brake alone or sue them for all the money I've given them in the past for all their misdiagnosing and charging me a MASSIVE fortune of money because of it?

Then on June 2, 2006 (second visit), you needed a new RADIATOR as end tanks were leaking.

If you recall you said this:

I wasn't surprised either that it started to leak. I had a feeling the older portions of the system would experience increased fatigue because of its now being able to hold the proper pressure.

But more than the radiator was replaced:

Diagnose cooling system labor $330.00

52493404 Radiator $349.44

Coolent/Flush $44.30

Cooler Lines Leaking labor $200.00

25660319 Cooler Line $77.68

25630622 Cooler Line $61.27

25533913 Gasket $1.37

Noise under car

Road test and lubed multi bushings & Links $0.00

EPA Rip Off $20.00

Tax Man blood transfusion $65.05

Total $1,149.11 (for second visit)

So while it was over +$3000 it was two separate visits and a hell of a lot of work and diagnosis was done.

Also, lets not forget that two other mechanics looked at your car (one recommended by me) and they did not find hydrocarbons or pressure leaks... So I am NOT surprised that the same happened at the dealer. It sounded like it was an intermittant issue that hid from everyone.

Having work done at the dealer with an older car is the kiss of death. The dealer is changing big money for LABOR and you are paying DEALER parts prices NOT GMOTORS or ROCKAUTO. I have said more than once that if you don't do your own work, to own these cars outside of warranty is prohibitively expense. Its like going to the doctor without health insurance. The older they get the more that needs to be replaced due to age, heat, cold, drying out, etc. It got to the point where I could not keep up with my 91 Seville problems and I practically rebuilt that car. AND to be honest with you its beginning to happen on my 1996 that I have POURED money into...while doing all the work myself!

Don't get me wrong, I feel for you, I really do. But setting aside my personal feelings and how badly I feel for you, it was important to properly FRAME this issue. Again, I will work to get you that 4.9 with 50,000 miles on it, I might be able to get them to do better than $400 also. Why dont you see what Richters wants to replace the engine for you... I'll have it shipped directly to Richters... Mike

BUT..... again, the problem with replacing the engine at this point is.... what is next, the transmission, struts, windows, etc... I DO feel for you, but this is the negative about owning an older car have having to pay for repairs.. Its not good. I will help you ANY WAY I can, just let me know how..

All this shows me is that the dealership missed it or ignored it, and Richter's didn't even test for a head gasket problem, they were looking for the cause of an overheating engine, nothing else, and he diagnosed that it would be something "electrical" wrong with the car.

$400 I don't have, it's that simple. Whatever Richters might charge is a moot point, I don't have any more money. I'll just drive this car until it dies, off to the junk yard it goes and then I'll take a bus to and from work.

[BodybyFisher]

You stated that Richter's pressure tested the cooling system and found no leaks. We were ALL happy! http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...=9192&st=45 Here is your statement from when the car left Richter's:

I just spoke with the mechanic, he said the 4.9 was known for occasional head gasket problems but he said he thinks that my car is actually experiencing an electrical problem, perhaps the fan is not coming on all the time. I explained to him that yesterday I did notice that when the fan came on it didn't sound right, sort of wimpy sounding, he thinks it might be the fan and he's going to let me know.

Adallak said this regarding Richter's:

Marika, you may have two separate problems: fan plus leak. Besides, a bad fan can make the coolant boil and get out of surge tank. Ask them to pressure test even if the fan is bad.

You said this regarding Richter's:

They would be pretty stupid and inept to not pressure test ..... oh god, help me, my heart can't take this

Then this:

Just got off the phone with the mechanic. He's going to pressure test the cooling system but he really believes there's nothing leaking. He said I'm smelling antifreeze because a load of it splashed all over the engine when it blew out of the surge tank and it's burning off. I told him to humor me and just test the system for leaks just to be sure.

He thinks it's the fan and that its either not spinning or not spinning fast enough. He said this car's fan system has 3 separate relays and they all have to be tested. But he's really giving me the feeling that I shouldn't panic and he says there's nothing wrong with the engine as far as he can tell. I hope he's right.

Then this:

Just spoke with the mechanic. They can't find anything wrong. Whatever was causing it to overheat once in a while is not showing up now.

Just got the car back from Richter's, the mechanic said he could find nothing wrong. No Leaks, nothing electrical either. If it happens again, I'll just take it back to him and hopefully by that time, whatever it is that's failing, will show it's ugly face finally. He had the car over 3 hours in the bay and yet he felt bad because he could not isolate the problem so he only charged me $75. I thanked him.

I assume Richter's didn't lie to you regarding pressure testing the engine. Do you recall if I called them during that? I think I spoke to the mechanic, but I can't recall I know I spoke to them on blunted's behalf.

BY THE WAY, it is very interesting that RICHTER'S said they thought it was ELECTRICAL and BROGAN replaced the temperature sensor wiring harnesses! Lets NOT forget how much all of this MADE SENSE! By the way, you DIDN'T mention to BROGAN that RICHTER'S thought it was ELECTRICAL did you? Plus don't forget that you have a LOT of eyes on this board following along VERY CLOSELY, this all made sense! I personally followed your problems very closely, I took them personal! I do believe I called Richter's. The sequence of events that took place on this were CORRECT and all precautions were followed... This is really a shame, and it shows that despite all efforts fixing problems can be ellusive...

My neighbor got rid of a 1 year old Jeep because it had an electrical problem the DEALER could NOT find....that drove his battery dead... This stuff can happen.

[Marika]

You stated that Richters pressure tested the cooling system and found no leaks. We were ALL happy! http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...=9192&st=45 Here is your statement from when the car left Richters:

I just spoke with the mechanic, he said the 4.9 was known for occasional head gasket problems but he said he thinks that my car is actually experiencing an electrical problem, perhaps the fan is not coming on all the time. I explained to him that yesterday I did notice that when the fan came on it didn't sound right, sort of wimpy sounding, he thinks it might be the fan and he's going to let me know.

Adallak said this regarding Richters:

Marika, you may have two separate problems: fan plus leak. Besides, a bad fan can make the coolant boil and get out of surge tank. Ask them to pressure test even if the fan is bad.

You said this regarding Richters:

They would be pretty stupid and inept to not pressure test ..... oh god, help me, my heart can't take this

Then this:

Just got off the phone with the mechanic. He's going to pressure test the cooling system but he really believes there's nothing leaking. He said I'm smelling antifreeze because a load of it splashed all over the engine when it blew out of the surge tank and it's burning off. I told him to humor me and just test the system for leaks just to be sure.

He thinks it's the fan and that its either not spinning or not spinning fast enough. He said this car's fan system has 3 separate relays and they all have to be tested. But he's really giving me the feeling that I shouldn't panic and he says there's nothing wrong with the engine as far as he can tell. I hope he's right.

Then this:

Just spoke with the mechanic. They can't find anything wrong. Whatever was causing it to overheat once in a while is not showing up now.

Just got the car back from Richters, the mechanic said he could find nothing wrong. No Leaks, nothing electrical either. If it happens again, I'll just take it back to him and hopefully by that time, whatever it is that's failing, will show it's ugly face finally. He had the car over 3 hours in the bay and yet he felt bad because he could not isolate the problem so he only charged me $75. I thanked him.

I assume Richters didn't lie to you regarding pressure testing the engine. Do you recall if I called them during that? I think I spoke to the mechanic, but I can't recall I know I spoke to them on blunted's behalf.

BY THE WAY, it is very interesting that RICHTERS said they thought it was ELECTRICAL and BROGAN replaced the temperature sensor wiring harnesses! Lets NOT forget how much all of this MADE SENSE! By the way, you DIDN'T mention to BROGAN that RICHTERS thought it was ELECTRICAL did you? Plus don't forget that you have a LOT of eyes on this board following along VERY CLOSELY, this all made sense! I personally followed your problems very closely, I took them personal! I do believe I called Richters. The sequence of events that took place on this were CORRECT and all precautions were followed... This is really a shame, and it show to spite all efforts fixing problems can be ellusive...

My neighbor got rid of a 1 year old Jeep because it had an electrical problem the DEALER could NOT find....that drove his battery dead... This stuff can happen.

I can only tell you what the mechanics are telling me. That's all. If they tell me they ran tests and found nothing, then what should I do? Take it to another mechanic for a third opinion? How far does this nonsense go? I've poured MANY THOUSANDS of dollars into this '92 Seville and the car is still showing problems that no one seems to know what the heck is wrong and I'm the one being made to look like the bad guy.. Ironically, when I spoke with Richter's he said someone did call him, but he doesn't know who it was and "oh, never mind" he said, apparently he didn't know you. In fact, I mentioned you name to him and he said, he didn't know you or who you were. So I don't know what to say about you getting involved with this and why you are attacking me over this, and trying to make me look like a liar, and trying to defend the dealership. What's up with this Mike? Why are you suddenly sticking a knife in my back, because I won't buy a $400 engine from you? I have paid invoices from the dealership to prove what the hell they charged me for and supposedly did, now whether they did it or not, how should I know? You want to come down here and check everything for me? If the head gasket IS blown, then Circle Brake had the diagnosis correct WITHOUT testing for it, Richter's diagnosed it wrong although his invoice says he pressure tested the system as well, and the dealership, claims to have ran all sorts of tests and they still got it wrong. So assuming the head gasket is blown, and of course this is all my fault, I should now buy a used motor sight unseen, even if it is only $400, which I don't have.

The bottom line is this: My final decision about this car is that I'm going to drive it until the exhaust blows massive amounts of white smoke and then I'm going to take the car to a junk yard. That's it. I've thrown away enough money on this car.

[BodybyFisher]

Its a shame you see this as attacking. I have offered to help you any way I can even get you an engine. Sticking a knife? Not at all. All you need to do is go and review the circumstances as I did to see that NO ONE dropped the ball on this. NO ONE. This is a big shame and I feel badly for you.. But this CAN happen, and NOT to just Marika..

By the way, NO they dont personally know me, they know a good friend of mine. They know both my cars. AND they know I know what the **** I am talking about when I call them on the phone... That was the benefit of ME calling on your BEHALF to HELP you..

[iM reference deleted] I am a facts person, ALL FACTS, I don't pay any attention to emotion, pity or head hunting. If that disturbs you, I am sorry. It was very important to get the facts straight.

And for the record, I called Richters and told them to PRESSURE TEST your cooling system to eliminate that.... since it appeared that they didnt initially... REMEMBER, I recommended THEM to you.... and I was NOT going to allow them to screw up...

By the way, I use CAPS for emphasis as do you, not YELLING.... FYI

I am sorry you see my organization of the circumstances and details as back stabbing.. Before you can talk about suing, BBB and slandering the participants its very important to organize the facts and to see if you have a case... Otherwise you will be BLOWN out of the water..

Since I was heavily involved with your case, and since I dont have any emotional attachment to it, it was best for me to organize this

[Marika]

As for being "heavily involved in my case"? how? other than calling Richter's what were you doing that I didn't know about? Looking at my posts here on the site? This is your hard evidence? Huh? Only a judge can decide a case, and if I sue the dealership for loss and damages, it will be a judge who decides, and a jury.

[ted tcb]

Whew, tough reading on our Canadian Thanksgiving day.

Marika, I'm sorry for the money you've apparently lost on your '92 STS.

You may be right in determining that now is the time to cut your losses and

just drive the car into the ground. Many of us have been in your situation.

I followed your previous posts on the frustrations of overheating, and many board

members chimed in with advice. None, however, took your cause more to heart than

BBF/Scotty. I occasionally disagree with BBF ... but he really seems to be in your corner

on this one. He is your ally, responding with both advice and personal effort to your

post.

Good luck with your car.

[BodybyFisher]

What's up with this Mike? Why are you suddenly sticking a knife in my back, because I won't buy a $400 engine from you?

Let me make it clear that you are not buying the engine from me. You are buying it from a reputible scrap yard that I have a good relationship with and who I trust. As you know I shipped an engine to Matt (NJ) and to a member in Amsterdam. I make NO money on the transaction. I use my own time to, 1) call the scrap yard and discuss their inventory, 2) determine the engines quality 3) visually see and inspect it and take photos and, 4) arrange to have it shipped if necessary. I actually had to get plastic pallets to send the engine to Amsterdam because you CAN NOT ship WOOD overseas (beetles?).

I do this all for the benefit of the members on this board out of the goodness of my heart. I know that type of person is NOT common is it?, but that is me! Caring about other Cadillac Lovers and wanting to help thats me. Money has nothing to do with it, after 7950 posts I thought that would be evident.

Heavily involved equates to 42 out of 202 posts in that thread many of which involved reading the FSM and time consuming complicated posts, not to mention recommending Richters and calling them to ensure they pressure tested it... That's heavily involved.

[Cadillac Jim]

Has it occurred to anyone that the coolant in the oil could be coming through the intake manifold gasket? Head gasket problems on the 4.9 are rare. If they tested the coolant for combustion products, and the coolant wasn't just changed and flushed, then they eliminated head gasket problems at that time.

[WarrenJ]

AND . . . . has it gone unnoticed by members of this forum that two well liked members here are close to coming to blows?

It's uncomfortable. Take a step back folks, please.

Regards,

Warren

[Ranger]

I think bubbling in the tank rules out the intake manifold.

I agree with Warren.

[Cadillac Jim]

How about another test for combustion products? It takes about 10 minutes and costs pratcially nothing.

I also agree with Warren.

[BodybyFisher]

Has it occurred to anyone that the coolant in the oil could be coming through the intake manifold gasket? Head gasket problems on the 4.9 are rare. If they tested the coolant for combustion products, and the coolant wasn't just changed and flushed, then they eliminated head gasket problems at that time.

YES, See Post #2 in THIS thread, I say this:

I wonder if your intake manifold could be leaking, if I recall, the guru mentioned that the intakes could leak at the corners. I agree with Ranger, the bubbling in the reservoir is not typical for an intake manifold leak. So in theory, hydrocarbons should be present.

No, coming to blows does not really capture the feeling. Its nothing like that at all, not even close. I have just stated the facts, plain and simple. That the facts don't make everyone happy is out of my control. But thanks for the concern.