Marika Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 I'm going to be using tracer dye in my coolant and want to know if it's going to be harmful to my heating/cooling system. After I got my car back from Brogan, Totowa, New Jersey, and they did all the repairs, I noticed the car still had the strong smell of burning antifreeze from under the hood. I figured it would be a few days and the smell would be gone. Well, many weeks have gone by and the smell of burning antifreeze is still present and I'm refilling the recovery tank every week with about 1 gallon of 50/50 antifreeze. So after spending about $3,000 total at the dealership to fix a coolant leak, it still leaks. I figure I have to just do the job myself if I want to get it done right so I bought a UV light and I'm waiting for the delivery of tracer dye which I'm going to add to the system but since I know Cadillacs are such finicky, pure bred, odd ducks I'm wondering if using a tracer dye will make my engine fall apart... (I know this car is making my hair turn grey quickly, that's for sure). If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadillac Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 You spent $3k to have your car repaired, it still isn't repaired to your satisfaction, and you aren't taking it back? If a repair shop (which includes dealerships) charges you for a repair, and the issue doesn't get resolved, they need to make it right, without further charge to you. What exactly was the issue, what work was perfomed, and what is it doing now? As far as the tracer dye. You can use it to find the leak without fear of any damage. But, once the leak is found and repaired, it is adviseable to remove the dye with new fresh coolant. It would also be adviseable to flush the system with pure water. Since there aren't any block drains some of the flusg water will remain in the block. To combat this, take the coolant system capacity, divide by two, and add that much of pure uncut coolant when first refilling the system. Then add water from there. That will get you to a 50/50 mix. Then top off with 50/50 from then on when needed. Don "Modern warriors saddle iron horses of chrome." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted September 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 You spent $3k to have your car repaired, it still isn't repaired to your satisfaction, and you aren't taking it back? If a repair shop (which includes dealerships) charges you for a repair, and the issue doesn't get resolved, they need to make it right, without further charge to you. What exactly was the issue, what work was perfomed, and what is it doing now? As far as the tracer dye. You can use it to find the leak without fear of any damage. But, once the leak is found and repaired, it is adviseable to remove the dye with new fresh coolant. It would also be adviseable to flush the system with pure water. Since there aren't any block drains some of the flusg water will remain in the block. To combat this, take the coolant system capacity, divide by two, and add that much of pure uncut coolant when first refilling the system. Then add water from there. That will get you to a 50/50 mix. Then top off with 50/50 from then on when needed. Don The problem with these mechanics is that it's their word against mine. They claimed that when they gave the car back to me, there were no leaks. I called them a week afterward and told them I was still smelling antifreeze, their answer was, "it's burn off, it takes time". Weeks have gone by, I still smell antifreeze burning under the hood, none on the ground. I'm still adding antifreeze to the recovery tank, just added another gallon this morning of 50/50 mix. I called them about 1 week ago and told them the system is still leaking, they remained dead silent on the other end of the phone, didn't say a word, kept completely quiet and then said, "I have to go, I have other customers" and hung up on me. They will not admit that they gave the car back to me leaking, they will simply claim it's a new leak and it's not covered under the warranty for the previous repairs and that's how mechanics rob customers, but that's also how they lose customers and why General Motors is losing customers as well. Whatever the dealship repaired, I'm sure they did a good job of it, but they missed something obviously or it wouldn't still be leaking but I sure as hell can't afford the repairs anymore and they're not going to admit that they "missed a spot" and gave the car back to me with the system still leaking, they are not looking to do warranty repairs, they are looking to make money. I learned a long time ago that if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6 Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 for 3000$ what did they fix? Thats ALOT of money for a coolant fix......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted September 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 for 3000$ what did they fix? Thats ALOT of money for a coolant fix......... They put in a new radiator, new hoses, new starter motor, a new cancel cam in the steering wheel and a few other goodies that the car needed but the price is basically their overinflated "labor charges". In New Jersey, the dealerships are "off the wall" in what they charge. Even parts, for example, I called Brogan for a price on a part, they wanted DOUBLE the price of what Brassington Cadillac in Florida wanted for the same part and the price from Brassington included shipping. Scotty told me to call Brassington Cadillac in Florida and I'm glad I followed his advice, I saved a nice bundle on a part thanks to him. NOW when I need parts and I know exactly what I need, I call Brassington Cadillac of Florida and order the parts from them. Even with shipping, they are cheaper than what the dealerships charge here in New Jersey for the same part. The dealerships in New Jersey are obviously involved in price fixing and price gouging. They give General Motors a bad name and GM should start to crack down on these dealerships that are involved in ripping off customers in their repair facilities and price gouging on parts. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 for 3000$ what did they fix? Thats ALOT of money for a coolant fix......... They put in a new radiator, new hoses, new starter motor, a new cancel cam in the steering wheel and a few other goodies that the car needed but the price is basically their overinflated "labor charges". Holy crap. 3 grand is a lot of money for a radiator, hoses, and starter motor. I would show back up, in person, to that dealership. I wouldn't leave until I talked to the manager. I would write everything down into a Word document on the computer and basically tell the story of how you got the car fixed, still smelled coolant, they said it would burn off, you called back and got hung up on, etc. If that doesn't work, call the Cadillac zone office. Somebody will care. I would if I were you. $3000 could have bought you a whole new engine. Yes, there's something to the saying of "if you want it done right you have to do it yourself", but there's also something to the notion of paying 3 large and getting a leaking car in return. Does the coolant leak to the ground? Is there a visible and obvious external leak? Digital photographs might really "enhance" that Word document. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted September 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 for 3000$ what did they fix? Thats ALOT of money for a coolant fix......... They put in a new radiator, new hoses, new starter motor, a new cancel cam in the steering wheel and a few other goodies that the car needed but the price is basically their overinflated "labor charges". Holy crap. 3 grand is a lot of money for a radiator, hoses, and starter motor. I would show back up, in person, to that dealership. I wouldn't leave until I talked to the manager. I would write everything down into a Word document on the computer and basically tell the story of how you got the car fixed, still smelled coolant, they said it would burn off, you called back and got hung up on, etc. If that doesn't work, call the Cadillac zone office. Somebody will care. I would if I were you. $3000 could have bought you a whole new engine. Yes, there's something to the saying of "if you want it done right you have to do it yourself", but there's also something to the notion of paying 3 large and getting a leaking car in return. Does the coolant leak to the ground? Is there a visible and obvious external leak? Digital photographs might really "enhance" that Word document. It's not leaking to the ground. It's a distinct odor of burning antifreeze and it's on the side of the engine where the belts and all the accessories are mounted, passenger side, not a drop is getting on the ground. As soon as I find the leak with the tracer dye I will be photographing it. You can't see putz with all the belts and accessories in that area, it's all shoe-horned in. Tracer dye will do the trick. I've gone to war against many large corporations when I thought I was being cheated, American Express, Wachovia Bank, Chase Manhattan Bank, to name a few, and I've always come out the winner. I'm very good at giving a black eye and a bloody nose to the large corporations, all without using the legal system either. It's just the way I know how to write a letter. I think General Motors will soon be getting a "black eye and bloody nose letter" from me as well. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 Markia, I hate to say this but, it sounds like the leak is from the water pump base on your discription "it's on the side of the engine where the belts and all the accessories are mounted, passenger side" . If they did not touch the water pump, then they would not be liable for repairing it. Use the dye first before going any farther with the dealer or GM to avoid having to wipe egg off your face. That is never fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted September 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 Markia, I hate to say this but, it sounds like the leak is from the water pump base on your discription "it's on the side of the engine where the belts and all the accessories are mounted, passenger side" . If they did not touch the water pump, then they would not be liable for repairing it. Use the dye first before going any farther with the dealer or GM to avoid having to wipe egg off your face. That is never fun. Oh, I agree with you, I'm just waiting for the tracer dye to show up, then I'll know for sure which direction to go in. It's just very frustrating because the dealership "claims" they did check the water pump and said everything was fine with it. Darn, this is making me "nutz" for sure. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 If I recall you had a wiring harness also? It was related to the coolant temp sensor? You had a lot of work done but you also had a lot of diagnosis done. Flushing with tap water was mentioned above, personally I would avoid tap water because of minerals and impurities and because of the 50/50 mix issue that was mentioned. I would read the dye instructions, I doubt very much that it wouldn't be compatible with coolant. If you recall, Matt had a hole eaten in his block and he needed to replace his engine (that guy Scotty sent the engine to him, he is a nice guy! ). I would use that dye and I would pressurize your cooling system up to about 16 psi and listen and watch for leaks... I recently have found out that the 4.9 can leak at the cylinder sleeves, I have been told that there is an o-ring that leaks. Maybe someone with more 4.9 internal experience can comment on this. I hope this is not your problem. The next time you change your oil, you should pour it into a clear container and see if you have water in your oil.. It will separate if you do.. Keep us up to date on this.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted September 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 This is the UV lamp I got: http://www.tracerline.com/lampsandkits_tp-8680.html I'm just waiting for the dyes to show up. Tracerline says the dyes are harmless and can remain in the system indefinately. Should have checked their website before I posted, silly me. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 Thanks for that link... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 Marika, I probably more angry with your favorite stealership than you. Just could not keep reading the whole sad story... Do me a favore, pick up a screwdriver and tighten ALL the clamps on coolant hoses: 1. two of them on the firewall to the heater core 2. thre of them on the plastic T (heater valve). 3. three of them on the heater pipe. With engine idling, increase the RPM manually by lifting the throttle lever to some 3000 RPM. Have someone watching the waterpum area with a flashloght for small leaks. Same apply to all the connections I mentioned. Those leaks will show up ONLY under increased pressure from increased RPM. My money on a leaking T or connections to the latter. I do not think leaks from waterpump can reach exhaust manifold to cause burnt smell. It leaks somewhere else. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 By the way, does anyone know what the TOTAL Capacity for the cooling system for the 4.9 Litre is? That includes the radiator, water jackets in the engine, hoses and recovery tank? THE WHOLE THING! I know the recovery tank is one gallon, anyone know the rest? I bought, 6, one ounce bottles of tracer dye. Each one ounce bottle of tracer dye treats 4 gallons of anti-freeze so I would be able to treat a total of 24 gallons of anti-freeze. Did I get enough tracer dye? If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 According to my manual, the cooling system capacity is 12.1 quarts Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 According to my manual, the cooling system capacity is 12.1 quarts Great! so 3 of the one ounce bottles of tracer dye should do the trick. Thanks!! If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 According to my manual, the cooling system capacity is 12.1 quarts Great! so 3 of the one ounce bottles of tracer dye should do the trick. Thanks!! Quote> bought, 6, one ounce bottles of tracer dye. Each one ounce bottle of tracer dye treats 4 gallons of anti-freeze so I would be able to treat a total of 24 gallons of anti-freeze. Did I get enough tracer dye? I'm not sure if that is correct, if you said, "each one ounce bottle treats 4 gallons", then if, 12.1 quarts equals 3.025 gallons, then ONE bottle should treat your system. Am I missing something here? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I bought, 6, one ounce bottles of tracer dye. Each one ounce bottle of tracer dye treats 4 gallons of anti-freeze so I would be able to treat a total of 24 gallons of anti-freeze. Did I get enough tracer dye? You should have enough to treat an entire fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 According to my manual, the cooling system capacity is 12.1 quarts Great! so 3 of the one ounce bottles of tracer dye should do the trick. Thanks!! Quote> bought, 6, one ounce bottles of tracer dye. Each one ounce bottle of tracer dye treats 4 gallons of anti-freeze so I would be able to treat a total of 24 gallons of anti-freeze. Did I get enough tracer dye? I'm not sure if that is correct, if you said, "each one ounce bottle treats 4 gallons", then if, 12.1 quarts equals 3.025 gallons, then ONE bottle should treat your system. Am I missing something here? LOLOL!!! I read it as 12 gallons which actually made more sense to me. 3.03 gallons for the entire system seems a bit small. Ok. One bottle will treat the entire system. Let's have a UV light party, Everyone park their car in a circle at night, add tracer dye and then we'll track down everyone's leaks, in the car that is... If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Should have bought the gallon container. Then you could send a 1 ounce container to 127 other readers! Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Should have bought the gallon container. Then you could send a 1 ounce container to 127 other readers! If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 According to my manual, the cooling system capacity is 12.1 quarts Great! so 3 of the one ounce bottles of tracer dye should do the trick. Thanks!! Quote> bought, 6, one ounce bottles of tracer dye. Each one ounce bottle of tracer dye treats 4 gallons of anti-freeze so I would be able to treat a total of 24 gallons of anti-freeze. Did I get enough tracer dye? I'm not sure if that is correct, if you said, "each one ounce bottle treats 4 gallons", then if, 12.1 quarts equals 3.025 gallons, then ONE bottle should treat your system. Am I missing something here? LOLOL!!! I read it as 12 gallons which actually made more sense to me. 3.03 gallons for the entire system seems a bit small. Ok. One bottle will treat the entire system. Let's have a UV light party, Everyone park their car in a circle at night, add tracer dye and then we'll track down everyone's leaks, in the car that is... I'll bring the Jimi Hendrix Posters you bring the black light and lava light Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Marika, see this link, if Marco is not interested this might be something that you are interested in if you find that you have serious engine leak that can't be repaired (like matt): http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11055 Have you checked to see if you have coolant in your oil? Check the level. The next time the oil is changed put it in a clear container. My guess is that because you can smell coolant its not internal. Find Adallak's posts about the heater pipe.. See the pipe under the crank that goes behind the water pump, that pipe can rust and leak under pressure. Of course if this is a serious problem I could see you wanting to set fire to it...we'll hope for the best Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marika Posted October 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 OK. I added a bottle of the tracer dye to the system. Had to ask the guys from the body shop at the corner to get the radiator cap off, it just would not budge. FINALLY, they got the cap off and I added the dye. The dye can remain in the system indefinately with no effect or harm to the system. The radiator cap was one of the things the stealership installed when they put a new radiator in but I could never get the cap off. Even the guys at the bodyshop noticed that the cap was nearly impossible to get off the radiator. Anyway, since removing and replacing the radiator cap correctly, I've not smelled anymore antifreeze. I'm not saying that the radiator cap was to blame, I'm just saying that so far I've not smelled any antifreeze. The tracer dye will now show me where there's a leak, the next time I smell it. I'll finally track this darn leak down for good and get it fixed. Wish me luck. If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcirobin Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Make sure the bolts that hold the water pump on the engine are not loose. I've seen them come loose on more than one 4.9.....Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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