The Fred Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Seems like I noticed some wires with some light grey soot on them as if they'd been arcing.. Well I ruled that out but I think the #6 plug is bad Took the wire off of #6 and it runs the same with it on or off Hopefully I don't need a coil pack and I can take the FPR back to autozone again If not I finally got a torx wrench for the beauty cover MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 The plug wires will accumulate some dust by static electricity. You can check the wire and coil by putting another plug on it and watching for spark. You may just have a fouled plug or bad plug. I would put in the FPR, but that's just me. But, fixing the misfire and checking for good starting does make sense, because changing an FPR that is under the manifold and costs $66 is a job worth avoiding. However, I don't think that one plug misfiring would cause hard starting when hot. If this is the engine that had the bad backfire a couple of weeks ago, I would definitely change the FPR before I tried to start it hot again. A little note for us Caddy fans -- I knew someone with a Porsche 928 (an old car with a 32-valve DOHC V8) that had a bad intake backfire and his intake manifold shattered because Porsche doesn't have a zero-cost blowout valve like the Northstar does. I do hope that his mechanic replaced his FPR when they replaced his fuel injection because it cost about as much as that old car was worth. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Be sure you have a full understanding of what happened with the backfire / intake manifold incident. I don't think the 93/94's have a pop-off valve to relieve the pressure of backfires. That's why they added the rubber grommets to the torx bolts. I think there's a good chance you may have fractured the top of the intake when the emblem blew off. I also don't think one bad plug or wire would account for the backfires. I'd hate to see you end up like WarrenJ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 If so, at least changing the intake manifold is within the do-it-yourself realm for the competent home mechanic. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Use the torx wrench and take the cover off and check the FPR by turning the key on(engine off) and see if it is spewing gas. If it is change it. Only use OEM FPR because I had one from Advance only last a year and another one from NAPA would not fit. Check the injectors to see if all of them are seated good especially cylinder #6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted August 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Changed the front four plugs - no change Gonna do the FPR tomorrow To be clear.. to test the FPR I just turn on the ignition far enough for the fuel pump to click on and see if the FPR spews fuel Do not start with cover off due to dangerous RPM MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Changed the front four plugs - no change Gonna do the FPR tomorrow To be clear.. to test the FPR I just turn on the ignition far enough for the fuel pump to click on and see if the FPR spews fuel Do not start with cover off due to dangerous RPM Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted August 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Changed the front four plugs - no change Gonna do the FPR tomorrow To be clear.. to test the FPR I just turn on the ignition far enough for the fuel pump to click on and see if the FPR spews fuel Do not start with cover off due to dangerous RPM Correct. Thank you Mr. Ranger. I was taking the beauty cover off and the torx bit went flying - gonna be a fun one to hunt down tomorrow Be sure you have a full understanding of what happened with the backfire / intake manifold incident. I don't think the 93/94's have a pop-off valve to relieve the pressure of backfires. That's why they added the rubber grommets to the torx bolts. I think there's a good chance you may have fractured the top of the intake when the emblem blew off. I also don't think one bad plug or wire would account for the backfires. I'd hate to see you end up like WarrenJ....... Well, If the thing fractured itself and it wants me to spend alot of money on it.. It had better realise that the last Cadillac who did that to me ended up in a very bad way. I taught my 1991 Eldorado a big lesson when the Transmission went out. The police even became involved MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Not to worry, if the intake manifold fractured I don't see why it could not be fixed with JB weld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 I was taking the beauty cover off and the torx bit went flying Just for clarification, on the '93 & '94 that is not a "beauty cover". It is actually a functional manifold cover and the engine cannot be run without it. On the '95+ it became a "beauty cover" which also serves as a sound deadener and the engine can be run without it. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 The "Beauty cover" on the 95++ also serves as thermal insulation, keeping the underhood heat away from the fuel injection maifold. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 I've never heard that before, but it doesn't make sense. By "fuel injection manifold" I assume you mean the fuel rail? The fuel rail is under the beauty cover so it would trap the heat in and around the fuel rail (or is that what you meant, keeping the rail warm). Besides that, I don't think it makes any difference if the rail gets hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 I heard that it was utilized to keep the noise level down, listen to the injectors tick with it off.... I think the GURU mentioned that Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 That was my understanding as well. I was quite surprised by Jims response as I have never heard that before, even from our old Guru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Took top cover off there, Gas doesn't spew when I turn the key to on But there is a gasoline coating on things under there I see something that looks like the FPR autozone sold me I aint sure how to get to it yet but a big rainstorm is coming so I only had about 10 minutes to fool with it (and the phone kept ringing) MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 I've never heard that before, but it doesn't make sense. By "fuel injection manifold" I assume you mean the fuel rail? The fuel rail is under the beauty cover so it would trap the heat in and around the fuel rail (or is that what you meant, keeping the rail warm). Besides that, I don't think it makes any difference if the rail gets hot. The underhood temperature on most Northstar cars is very high. Look at what happens with mixture control without some insulation between the intake manifold and the underhood heat. Proper tuning depends on the input air temperature sensor, the MAP sensor, and the air flow sensor in the trottle body. If the intake manifold is hot, that throws off the fuel/air mixture. The PCM may fix this with data from the oxygen and knock sensors, but a hot intake manifold will cause loss of horespower. Intake manifold temperature will vary constantly as the amount of air going through it changes, so the fuel/air ratio will aways be less accurate. If this dicsussion continues, perhaps we should start another thread. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Took top cover off there, Gas doesn't spew when I turn the key to on But there is a gasoline coating on things under there I see something that looks like the FPR autozone sold me I aint sure how to get to it yet but a big rainstorm is coming so I only had about 10 minutes to fool with it (and the phone kept ringing) It is the silver cylinder with the nipple stuck up and a fuel line underneath. Release the pressure and pop the fuel line off and snap it out of the plastic retainer. Snap the other one in and connect the fuel line and it is ready to go. I would test it for leaks before you put the cover back on. Check the injectors to make sure they are seated good also. When you put the cover back on make sure the gasket is clean and in the right place so it will create a good seal or you will have a vacuum leak. If you get good at this and you want to be brave you could take out the phenolic plates under the manifold and clean the carbon from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Going to get this done tomorrow Thanks guys- I don't know what I would do without you. MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Took top cover off there, Gas doesn't spew when I turn the key to on But there is a gasoline coating on things under there I see something that looks like the FPR autozone sold me I aint sure how to get to it yet but a big rainstorm is coming so I only had about 10 minutes to fool with it (and the phone kept ringing) It is the silver cylinder with the nipple stuck up and a fuel line underneath. Release the pressure and pop the fuel line off and snap it out of the plastic retainer. Snap the other one in and connect the fuel line and it is ready to go. I would test it for leaks before you put the cover back on. Check the injectors to make sure they are seated good also. When you put the cover back on make sure the gasket is clean and in the right place so it will create a good seal or you will have a vacuum leak. If you get good at this and you want to be brave you could take out the phenolic plates under the manifold and clean the carbon from them. I didn't know I'd be able to see it after removing the top cover. Do I need to remove the black thing under that? The FPR is half visable as it sits Thanks MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I didn't know I'd be able to see it after removing the top cover. Do I need to remove the black thing under that? The FPR is half visable as it sits Thanks The black thing that propably looks like a hose with an elbow on it is the fuel line. Just pry it off gently and unsnap the FPR from the plastic retainer. The plastic retainer also holds the fuel injectors in place. Check to see if all of them are seated good. If you pull the plastic retainer up you will pull the injectors out if I remember right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 The plastic retainer is all one piece and I ended up removing the whole thing to get at the FPR since I was afraid it would break other wise,,, And I didn't want to just unsnap one side of the retainer for fear it would break I got it in there now all I need to know is how to get the black retainer to snap back down without hurting it.. it has about ten little snaps on there.. All of the bolt holes line up perfectly (the black thing has holes for the cover bolts to pass through) so I don't know if I should tap on the snaps with the blunt end of a driver or what With there being fuel under there as much as there was I am pretty confident that the FPR will fix the issue... I sure hope so MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 They want a $90 deposit but I can use the torque wrench for free Might have to do it tomorrow but really want to do it today MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Well someone is loaning me a torque wrench today so I just have to figure out how to snap the black thing back down without breaking it MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Well someone is loaning me a torque wrench today so I just have to figure out how to snap the black thing back down without breaking it It is pretty durable I pried real hard on mine and it survived. Did you check to see if the injectors are seated? They are the under the retainer and are attached to the fuel rail with the wires plugged into them. They just press in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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