RJSUS Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 0741 is ok to live with but the SES light stays on..went for emission test today and was told to come back after driving it for 3 weeks...I reset code last week after it thru 0741 again to at least get the light off...I tried running in 3rd for a time but 0741 was even thrown then and hence lit the SES light again..Am I doing wrong by running code test and clearing it constantly ?? thanks...Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 You are not going to pass an emissions test with the SES lamp on. Period. Not sure why you are setting a P0741 with the tranny selector in 3. I was not aware that the PCM would lock up the torque converter in 3rd. Every time you clear the codes, a "drive cycle" has to be completed before the OBD system flags are all set to green (ready state). That is why the emissions tester told you to come back after some period of driving. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Clear the DTC and DO NOT put the car in OD again till after you have it tested in 2 - 3 weeks. Drive it in 3rd. The DTC will set in OD when you reach 41 MPH and the TCC tries to engage. Stay out of OD and the light will stay out, the DTC will not set and you'll pass your test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Just reread the post due to Jim's post. I missed the part about 3rd gear. P0741 setting in 3rd? I've never heard of that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadillac Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Just reread the post due to Jim's post. I missed the part about 3rd gear. P0741 setting in 3rd? I've never heard of that either. Neither have I. I got through unspection by doing the "Drive in 3" method. My car sets the SES light almost immediately after i clear it. During my inspection run in 3, it never set and the code did not appear. Don "Modern warriors saddle iron horses of chrome." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJSUS Posted January 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Took it out again tonight...driving in 3rd... light and code set again while cruising at 40 to 45...If I can't get the red SES to stay off , I know it'll never pass..Once they see SERVICE ENGINE SOON I'll be doomed Just reread the post due to Jim's post. I missed the part about 3rd gear. P0741 setting in 3rd? I've never heard of that either. Neither have I. I got through unspection by doing the "Drive in 3" method. My car sets the SES light almost immediately after i clear it. During my inspection run in 3, it never set and the code did not appear. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hmmm..I was thinking the 3rd gear solution was genius. Anyway, here are the 'rules' of PO741. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) controls the Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Valve (TCC Sol. Valve) pulse width modulation (PWM). The solenoid controls the hydraulic fluid for TCC apply and release. When the TCC is applied, the engine is coupled directly to the transmission through the TCC. The TCC slip speed should be near 0. If the PCM detects high torque converter slip when the TCC is commanded ON, then DTC P0741 sets. DTC P0741 is a Type B DTC. Conditions for Setting the DTC No MAF DTCs P0101, P0102, or P0103. No TP DTCs P0121, P0122, or P0123. No VSS DTCs P0502, or P0503. No A/T ISS DTCs P0716, or P0717. No TCC Stuck ON DTC P0742. No TFP Val. Position Sw. DTC P1810. No TCC PWM Sol. Valve DTC P1860. The engine has been running for more than 5 seconds. The engine is not in fuel cut off. The TFP Val. Position Sw. indicates D4. The transmission gear ratio indicates 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gear. The throttle angle is greater than 8 degrees. The transmission fluid temperature is -18-130°C (0-266°F). Delivered torque is between 43-202 N·m (32-150 lb ft). The TCC Sol. Valve is commanded ON at maximum duty cycle. The TCC slip must not exceed torque limits. Action Taken When the DTC Sets The PCM illuminates the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL). SERVICE ENGINE SOON, SERVICE TRANSMISSION displays on the Driver Information Center (DIC). The PCM inhibits TCC engagement. The PCM inhibits 4th gear if the transmission is in hot mode. DTC P0741 is stored in the PCM history. Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC The PCM turns OFF the MIL after three consecutive trips without a failure reported. A scan tool can clear the DTC from the PCM history. The PCM clears the DTC from the PCM history if the vehicle completes 40 warm-up cycles without a failure reported. The PCM cancels the DTC default actions when the fault no longer exists and the ignition is OFF long enough in order to power down the PCM. Diagnostic Aids Inspect the transmission fluid level. The transmission may be in hot mode. Inspect the transmission fluid lines to the radiator. The lines may be pinched, plugged or twisted. I attached a picture. To get into the side pan, the whole cradle and engine has to be dropped down about a foot. All day job for $25 part. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeal1892 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Do you know when the P 0741 Code started ? How long you had the car ? I replace the sensor in mine after the car had to go back for a leak after the headgaskets were replaced.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcobz28 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 You're in luck. I'm running a P0741 repair special at my home garage in Hoffman Estates this month! $300 + parts I just did my ISS sensor (P0717) on '96 SLS. Turned out perfect! The TCC solenoid is even less work, as you don't need to remove the intermediate plate to get to the input shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Yes, $300, come on over! Recently did a J 42069 timing belt job..See..it's gotta be done.. http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16381 Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 I'm almost positive it does lock up in 3rd gear so drive it to the test in 2nd gear after clearing the code. You can buy a cheap OBD2 tester at Harbor Freight to view your I/M readiness status: http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/....do?keyword=obd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthstarAJ Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hmmm..I was thinking the 3rd gear solution was genius. Anyway, here are the 'rules' of PO741. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) controls the Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Valve (TCC Sol. Valve) pulse width modulation (PWM). The solenoid controls the hydraulic fluid for TCC apply and release. When the TCC is applied, the engine is coupled directly to the transmission through the TCC. The TCC slip speed should be near 0. If the PCM detects high torque converter slip when the TCC is commanded ON, then DTC P0741 sets. DTC P0741 is a Type B DTC. Conditions for Setting the DTC No MAF DTCs P0101, P0102, or P0103. No TP DTCs P0121, P0122, or P0123. No VSS DTCs P0502, or P0503. No A/T ISS DTCs P0716, or P0717. No TCC Stuck ON DTC P0742. No TFP Val. Position Sw. DTC P1810. No TCC PWM Sol. Valve DTC P1860. The engine has been running for more than 5 seconds. The engine is not in fuel cut off. The TFP Val. Position Sw. indicates D4. The transmission gear ratio indicates 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gear. The throttle angle is greater than 8 degrees. The transmission fluid temperature is -18-130°C (0-266°F). Delivered torque is between 43-202 N·m (32-150 lb ft). The TCC Sol. Valve is commanded ON at maximum duty cycle. The TCC slip must not exceed torque limits. Action Taken When the DTC Sets The PCM illuminates the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL). SERVICE ENGINE SOON, SERVICE TRANSMISSION displays on the Driver Information Center (DIC). The PCM inhibits TCC engagement. The PCM inhibits 4th gear if the transmission is in hot mode. DTC P0741 is stored in the PCM history. Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC The PCM turns OFF the MIL after three consecutive trips without a failure reported. A scan tool can clear the DTC from the PCM history. The PCM clears the DTC from the PCM history if the vehicle completes 40 warm-up cycles without a failure reported. The PCM cancels the DTC default actions when the fault no longer exists and the ignition is OFF long enough in order to power down the PCM. Diagnostic Aids Inspect the transmission fluid level. The transmission may be in hot mode. Inspect the transmission fluid lines to the radiator. The lines may be pinched, plugged or twisted. I attached a picture. To get into the side pan, the whole cradle and engine has to be dropped down about a foot. All day job for $25 part. A P0741 has nothing to do with a TCC soleniod. An P1860 would be a TCC solenoid. So how do you replace the mismachined side case cover for $300? Subject: Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On, Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P0741, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Excessive Slip, Transaxle Chuggle, Slip/Surge (Inspect/Replace Internal Transaxle Components) #04-07-30-034 - (08/06/2004) Take a look at this. http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/north...tml#post1363215 12.58 second Northstar with a GM/Cadillac PCM Cadillac Technician @ Crest Cadillac Brookfield WI Hometown Washougal WA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 ? Not related? That info was directly from the GM service manual.. TCC solenoid. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJSUS Posted January 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Had the car for 7 years now......A year of 0741's been popping up but I've just been clearing it out...Now that it's emission test time, I've got a problem.. Russ Do you know when the P 0741 Code started ? How long you had the car ? I replace the sensor in mine after the car had to go back for a leak after the headgaskets were replaced.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 My problem was a hard po1860 causing a hard po741. But the above po741 info is directly from the GM service manual. Mine was fixed by dropping the cradle/trans/engine and replacing the TCC solenoid. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 P0740 TCC Enable Solenoid Circuit Electrical P0741 TCC System Stuck Off P0742 TCC System Stuck On P0743 TCC Enable Solenoid Circuit Electrical P0744 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Intermittent P1834 Torque Converter Clutch (TCC)/Shift Solenoid (SS) Control Circuit High Voltage P1860 TCC PWM Solenoid Circuit Electrical P1864 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit P1866 Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) Solenoid Control Circuit Low Voltage P1867 Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) Solenoid Control Circuit High Voltage P1873 TCC Stator Temp. Switch Circuit Low P1874 TCC Stator Temp. Switch Circuit High P1884 TCC Enable/Shift Light Circuit P1887 TCC Release Switch Circuit P2763 Short to voltage in the TCC Solenoid P2764 Open or Short to ground in the TCC PWM solenoid valve circuit I believe that I read somewhere, either in the FSM or the transmission overhaul manual, that the TCC would engage in 3rd or 4th. Logan's post implies that it may engage in 2nd gear also, but I can't see it happening with the transmission in drive because if you throttle back the engine at over 41 mph in 2nd gear the transmission will shift; perhaps the computer allows for a condition where the shift solenoids aren't working and the transmission is stuck in 2nd gear. In any case, Logan's post says that the DTC shouldn't be set if the transmission is set for 3rd gear. I'll try running in 3rd and see if my TCC engages later today and will edit this post if it does. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthstarAJ Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 P0741 can cause a P1860 correct? (P1860 = TCC solenoid BURNED UP) I have been told that the PCM will burn up the TCC solenoid trying to correct for the bad seals. I have replace about 50 to 75% of the TCC solenoids when doing a P0741. That tells me they are getting to hot. about 50% of the P0741 come in low on fluid. Maybe the fluid cools the TCC solenoid and since it is up towards the top it will not get cooled. I really don't have the answer to the P1860, But I know the P0741 since I have done about 50 or so. 12.58 second Northstar with a GM/Cadillac PCM Cadillac Technician @ Crest Cadillac Brookfield WI Hometown Washougal WA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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