Devin O'Conor Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 I am trying to remove the compressor pulley so I can have a new bearing pressed into it. I finally got the right tool to remove the hub but have one problem. There's no nut holding it on but there is what seems to be a washer that is holding it on. You can see it in the picture. How do I remove this? Does it even need removed? Is it possible it's not holding it on and I just need to use more force removing the hub? [attachmentid=2588] K.O.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 That picture is not real clear but it appears to have a snap ring retainer on it. You'll need a pair of snap ring pliers if that is the case. Kevin will probably know for dure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin O'Conor Posted June 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 That picture is not real clear but it appears to have a snap ring retainer on it. You'll need a pair of snap ring pliers if that is the case. Kevin will probably know for dure. It was hard to get a good picture with the lighting I had. Maybe this crude image I made will help clarify. [attachmentid=2589] The washer isn't a complete circle. The tab seems like a seperate piece. Anyone have any idea at all? I don't yet have a factory service manual. Perhaps it would shed some light. Does anyone have one for 1993-1997 and can post a copy of the page that explains it? K.O.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 Here is a thread discussing replacement of A/C hub bearing. It's more involved than simply pressing out the old one and pressing in a new one. There are stakes that must be removed. Also, chances are the pulley's contact surface is worn and therefore it would probably be better to buy the pulley and bearing together as one unit. It will cost over $100, but you won't have to deal with installing a new bearing. Regarding removal of hub, here is a thread entitled "A/C Pulley Removal, Pictures." I looked at your clutch plate. I don’t believe that semi-circular ring needs to be removed. It looks like it could be part of a rusted off snap ring, but I doubt it. There is space between it and the compressor shaft indicating it isn't secured on the shaft. Whatever it is, you can probably ignore it and remove the plate with the clutch plate remover you purchased. But first, test to see how secure it is with a screwdriver by prodding it to see if it moves. I don't remember seeing anything like that when I removed my compressor but that doesn't mean my compressor plate didn't have the same thing. It looks like it just part of the clutch plate as the ends taper to the plate. Anyway, I'll check my compressor tomorrow and report back. All I can say is that I simply removed the clutch plate with a remover tool. Below are instruction to remove plate and hub: 1. With center screw forcing tip in place to thrust against end of the shaft, thread the Clutch Plate Installer/Remover into the hub. Hold the body of the remover with a wrench (See A/C Pulley Removal, Pictures) and turn the screw into the remover body to remove the clutch plate. 2. Once the plate is removed you will see a snap ring which secures the pulley to the compressor shaft. Remove the snap ring with snap ring plier, which can be purchased at PepBoys or other auto parts store. If you don’t have a snap ring plier set, I strongly recommend buying one, as it will eliminate a lot of aggravation and the job will go much faster. Also, be aware that the clutch plate has a shaft key which is used to secure and align the clutch plate to shaft. Save the key or buy a new one from a Cadillac dealer for about $5. 3. Remember to reinstall the snap ring to secure the pulley before installing the clutch plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 The drawing appears to be a snap ring - this must be removed in order to get the pulley off and you will need a set of snap ring pliers. I'll check the shop manual this evening to confirm as some have a nut and others have the snap ring. If you have access to an arbor press or hydraulic press, removing the old bearing and installing a new one is not difficult. If not, the pulley and bearing combo may be the way to go. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 To the best of my recollection, there was no snap ring holding my clutch plate on. It was a tapered fit that is pressed on with the installer/removal tool. I replaced the hub assembly as I didn't have access to a press to replace just the bearing. There WAS a snap ring for the hub assembly. Your drawing does somewhat resembles a snap ring though. Maybe your compressor is different? Do you see 2 little holes where your snap ring pliers will fit into? If not, I'd say there is NO snap ring there. Doesn't make much sense there would be a snap ring outside the clutch plate, as that plate is designed to be adjusted in and out to adjust the air gap. I originally just replaced the hub assembly and not the clutch plate and my noise was gone (problem fixed), except I had a very slight squeal when the compressor engaged. I could have lived w/ that, but me being the perfectionists, I wanted that noise gone as well. After adjusting the air gap (.020-.030) between the hub and plate with no avail, I decided to install a new clutch plate...bad idea! While doing that, the threaded shaft end on the compressor broke off. So now I need to replace my whole compressor, as I now can't adjust the air gap to the point where the plate will engage with the hub, which equates to NO AC!. Lesson learned (again), don't fix it if it aint broke! Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin O'Conor Posted June 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 I've checked around and no one seems to have seen what is on my compressor. It is tight around the threaded end in the middle of the hub like a nut would be. It's like a nut I guess but is smooth with the tab that sticks out. It isn't a snap ring. There are no holes to use a snap ring pliars on it. I'm not sure what to do from here. Maybe I am wrong and the thing doesn't need to be taken off to remove the hub. It looks like it needs to be taken off though. I tried using the hub pulling tool but didn't want to break my compressor. How much force does it take to remove the hub? If I can't get this thing off, the car will sit until winter. I have no use for it without A/C in the summer. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before? K.O.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Can you take a better photo? The photo in your first post is poor. If we can get a good photo, it should be easy to figure out how its removed. As you know there are inside and outside snap rings. I just blew up your photo huge and I believe I am seeing an outside snap ring around the center bolt. Please post a better photo. Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin O'Conor Posted June 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Can you take a better photo? The photo in your first post is poor. If we can get a good photo, it should be easy to figure out how its removed. As you know there are inside and outside snap rings. I just blew up your photo huge and I believe I am seeing an outside snap ring around the center bolt. Please post a better photo. Mike I went out and took another picture. It won't let me post it because it's too big. How can I post it? K.O.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 put it on photobucket.com, or email it to photos@caddyinfo.com More info on posting photos here: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9759 Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 The clutch plate comes off with the removal tool first. Then the snap ring (the piece you're describing) has to come off in order to remove the pulley & clutch assembly. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin O'Conor Posted June 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 The clutch plate comes off with the removal tool first. Then the snap ring (the piece you're describing) has to come off in order to remove the pulley & clutch assembly. Does anyone have a picture of a clutch plate not installed on the compressor? K.O.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 The clutch plate comes off with the removal tool first. Then the snap ring (the piece you're describing) has to come off in order to remove the pulley & clutch assembly. Kevin is correct. What you're seeing now is the clutch plate, not the hub (pulley). There shouldn't be a snap ring OR bolt holding that on, as it's a tapered fit. It will probably be pretty tight. Try squirting some penetrating oil and let it soak for awhile before using the clutch remover/installer tool. *Importantt* - There will be a shaft key on the shaft you'll see once you remove the plate, that you will need upon reassmbly, so don't lose that. Once you remove the clutch plate, you will then see a snap ring that will need to be removed to remove the hub bearing assembly (pulley). To remove the hub bearing assembly (pulley), you will need a 2 jaw puller. I did not have room for a 3 jaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin O'Conor Posted June 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Kevin is correct. What you're seeing now is the clutch plate, not the hub (pulley). There shouldn't be a snap ring OR bolt holding that on, as it's a tapered fit. It will probably be pretty tight. Try squirting some penetrating oil and let it soak for awhile before using the clutch remover/installer tool. *Importantt* - There will be a shaft key on the shaft you'll see once you remove the plate, that you will need upon reassmbly, so don't lose that. Once you remove the clutch plate, you will then see a snap ring that will need to be removed to remove the hub bearing assembly (pulley). To remove the hub bearing assembly (pulley), you will need a 2 jaw puller. I did not have room for a 3 jaw. So that little thing is the shaft key? It just comes off with the clutch plate? I will go put some penetrating oil on it now. The puller I have is 2 jaw. K.O.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 The clutch plate comes off with the removal tool first. Then the snap ring (the piece you're describing) has to come off in order to remove the pulley & clutch assembly. Does anyone have a picture of a clutch plate not installed on the compressor? See the post below, there a a couple pictures in there of the clutch plate. You will also see a diagram that shows a nut for the shaft that goes on the outside of the clutch plate. Mine did not have that nut and my FSM does not mention one either. Which car are you working on? http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...ompressor+noise Kevin is correct. What you're seeing now is the clutch plate, not the hub (pulley). There shouldn't be a snap ring OR bolt holding that on, as it's a tapered fit. It will probably be pretty tight. Try squirting some penetrating oil and let it soak for awhile before using the clutch remover/installer tool. *Importantt* - There will be a shaft key on the shaft you'll see once you remove the plate, that you will need upon reassmbly, so don't lose that. Once you remove the clutch plate, you will then see a snap ring that will need to be removed to remove the hub bearing assembly (pulley). To remove the hub bearing assembly (pulley), you will need a 2 jaw puller. I did not have room for a 3 jaw. So that little thing is the shaft key? It just comes off with the clutch plate? I will go put some penetrating oil on it now. The puller I have is 2 jaw. I'm not sure which "little thingy" you're referring to, but there will be a shaft key on the shaft inside the clutch plate. That could be what you're seeing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Kevin is correct. What you're seeing now is the clutch plate, not the hub (pulley). There shouldn't be a snap ring OR bolt holding that on, as it's a tapered fit. It will probably be pretty tight. Try squirting some penetrating oil and let it soak for awhile before using the clutch remover/installer tool. *Importantt* - There will be a shaft key on the shaft you'll see once you remove the plate, that you will need upon reassmbly, so don't lose that. Once you remove the clutch plate, you will then see a snap ring that will need to be removed to remove the hub bearing assembly (pulley). To remove the hub bearing assembly (pulley), you will need a 2 jaw puller. I did not have room for a 3 jaw. So that little thing is the shaft key? It just comes off with the clutch plate? I will go put some penetrating oil on it now. The puller I have is 2 jaw. Don't use a two or three jaw puller to remove the clutch plate or you will destroy it. You must use the proper removal tool. The clutch pulley puller locks into the grooves on the pulley once the plate is removed. The piece you refer to in your drawing is a snap ring. The shaft key fits into a groove in the shaft and keeps the pulley locked to the shaft - you'll see that when you get the plate off and when the pulley is removed, take care not to lose it. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Don't use a two or three jaw puller to remove the clutch plate or you will destroy it. You must use the proper removal tool. The clutch pulley puller locks into the grooves on the pulley once the plate is removed. The piece you refer to in your drawing is a snap ring. The shaft key fits into a groove in the shaft and keeps the pulley locked to the shaft - you'll see that when you get the plate off and when the pulley is removed, take care not to lose it. Kevin, I hope he didn't infer from what I said to mean to remove the clutch plate with the jaw puller. Here's what I said: "What you're seeing now is the clutch plate, not the hub (pulley). There shouldn't be a snap ring OR bolt holding that on, as it's a tapered fit. It will probably be pretty tight. Try squirting some penetrating oil and let it soak for awhile before using the clutch remover/installer tool. *Importantt* - There will be a shaft key on the shaft you'll see once you remove the plate, that you will need upon reassmbly, so don't lose that. Once you remove the clutch plate, you will then see a snap ring that will need to be removed to remove the hub bearing assembly (pulley). To remove the hub bearing assembly (pulley), you will need a 2 jaw puller." You mentioned: "The clutch pulley puller locks into the grooves on the pulley once the plate is removed." I used a 2 jaw puller to remove the hub pulley...didn't need that special clutch pulley puller tool (which is a different tool from the clutch remover/installer tool). I did use/need the clutch remover/installer tool to remove and install the clutch plate and needed that tool as well to install the hub pulley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin O'Conor Posted June 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Not to worry. I got it off! Let me tell you, it wasn't easy! I wasn't using the 2 jaw puller on the clutch plate. I had the proper tool. I had to use lots of WD-40 and give the plate a few good whacks. After that, I cranked really hard on the clutch plate remover tool and, finally, it made a audible POP and came right off. The clutch plate looks pretty worn after almost 130,000 miles. I don't have the tool to remove the snap ring so I will have to pick one up tomorrow to remove the pulley. I'm really tempted to just get a new clutch plate and pulley. I don't want to have to do this again. Is this a good idea or just a waste of money? If I do, it will have a wait a few weeks. I have a 400 mile trip a week from this Friday and then a 2000 mile trip to go on starting the 27th. I would get the parts and finish the repair after those trips. I will be taking a different vehicle on those trips. If I decide to do just the bearing, I will get it done before leaving. What do you all think? MAC, I saw you were just going to do the bearing but ended up installing a whole new clutch. Oh yeah, in answer to your question epricedright, this is on the 1995 SLS. K.O.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Not to worry. I got it off! Let me tell you, it wasn't easy! I wasn't using the 2 jaw puller on the clutch plate. I had the proper tool. I had to use lots of WD-40 and give the plate a few good whacks. After that, I cranked really hard on the clutch plate remover tool and, finally, it made a audible POP and came right off. The clutch plate looks pretty worn after almost 130,000 miles. I don't have the tool to remove the snap ring so I will have to pick one up tomorrow to remove the pulley. I'm really tempted to just get a new clutch plate and pulley. I don't want to have to do this again. Is this a good idea or just a waste of money? If I do, it will have a wait a few weeks. I have a 400 mile trip a week from this Friday and then a 2000 mile trip to go on starting the 27th. I would get the parts and finish the repair after those trips. I will be taking a different vehicle on those trips. If I decide to do just the bearing, I will get it done before leaving. What do you all think? MAC, I saw you were just going to do the bearing but ended up installing a whole new clutch. Oh yeah, in answer to your question epricedright, this is on the 1995 SLS. Please say it isn't so...you gave the plate a few good whacks? What did you whack it with? Where did you whack it? The seals in the compressor are prone to leak if the shaft is whacked on...so I've been told and as stated in the FSM. If you whacked on the clutch plate or the hub itself, there's a chance your compressor may leak freon...hopefully not! My clutch plate was/is less than a 1/4" from the .030 gap before the shaft end broke. Once it broke, I couldn't press it on any further. I was tempted to give it a few whacks to see if I could drive it in place, but was advised it may damage my seals if I did. I will try it though, right before I'm ready to replace the compressor, being I'll have nothing to lose. My compressor has a brand new hub pulley/bearing assembly and clutch plate. According to Rockauto, our parts are the same. If you decide on not replacing just the bearing, I can sell them to you for a good price when I get my new compressor. They were both put on recently, so they are practically new...both are ACDelco parts purchased from Rockauto. The clutch plate will have zero wear on it actually, being it never has contacted the clutch pulley surface. I hope to get mine done around the 1st two weeks of July. Btw, what was that thing you saw on the outside of your clutch plate? It wasn't a snap ring or nut was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Don't use a two or three jaw puller to remove the clutch plate or you will destroy it. You must use the proper removal tool. The clutch pulley puller locks into the grooves on the pulley once the plate is removed. The piece you refer to in your drawing is a snap ring. The shaft key fits into a groove in the shaft and keeps the pulley locked to the shaft - you'll see that when you get the plate off and when the pulley is removed, take care not to lose it. Kevin, I hope he didn't infer from what I said to mean to remove the clutch plate with the jaw puller. Here's what I said: "What you're seeing now is the clutch plate, not the hub (pulley). There shouldn't be a snap ring OR bolt holding that on, as it's a tapered fit. It will probably be pretty tight. Try squirting some penetrating oil and let it soak for awhile before using the clutch remover/installer tool. *Importantt* - There will be a shaft key on the shaft you'll see once you remove the plate, that you will need upon reassmbly, so don't lose that. Once you remove the clutch plate, you will then see a snap ring that will need to be removed to remove the hub bearing assembly (pulley). To remove the hub bearing assembly (pulley), you will need a 2 jaw puller." You mentioned: "The clutch pulley puller locks into the grooves on the pulley once the plate is removed." I used a 2 jaw puller to remove the hub pulley...didn't need that special clutch pulley puller tool (which is a different tool from the clutch remover/installer tool). I did use/need the clutch remover/installer tool to remove and install the clutch plate and needed that tool as well to install the hub pulley. I just wanted to make sure that Devin did not use the 2-jaw puller on the clutch plate. Not to worry. I got it off! Let me tell you, it wasn't easy! I wasn't using the 2 jaw puller on the clutch plate. I had the proper tool. I had to use lots of WD-40 and give the plate a few good whacks. After that, I cranked really hard on the clutch plate remover tool and, finally, it made a audible POP and came right off. The clutch plate looks pretty worn after almost 130,000 miles. I don't have the tool to remove the snap ring so I will have to pick one up tomorrow to remove the pulley. I'm really tempted to just get a new clutch plate and pulley. I don't want to have to do this again. Is this a good idea or just a waste of money? If I do, it will have a wait a few weeks. I have a 400 mile trip a week from this Friday and then a 2000 mile trip to go on starting the 27th. I would get the parts and finish the repair after those trips. I will be taking a different vehicle on those trips. If I decide to do just the bearing, I will get it done before leaving. What do you all think? MAC, I saw you were just going to do the bearing but ended up installing a whole new clutch. Oh yeah, in answer to your question epricedright, this is on the 1995 SLS. Do not hammer on anything on the compressor as you may damage it. There are bearings and seals that can be damaged. You shouldn't need to replace the clutch coil - just the brearing or the bearing/pulley assembly. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 MAC, I saw you were just going to do the bearing but ended up installing a whole new clutch. Originally, I just wanted to replace the pulley bearing but since the surface of the pulley was worn (grooved), and replacing the bearing is probably best done at a machine shop, I decided to buy the pulley with the bearing preinstalled. Also, the clutch face plate was worn, so I decided to replace it as well. I just ordered a new clutch coil since the original is damaged, most likely due to overheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin O'Conor Posted June 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 Please say it isn't so...you gave the plate a few good whacks? What did you whack it with? Where did you whack it? Maybe I overstated that. I used an adjustable wrench with a rubber handle and basically just kind of tapped around the plate with the rubber end. I'm sure it's fine. Yes, I may very well be interested in your pulley and clutch plate. Please send me a message. Do not hammer on anything on the compressor as you may damage it. There are bearings and seals that can be damaged. You shouldn't need to replace the clutch coil - just the brearing or the bearing/pulley assembly. I am not going to be replacing the coil. I have never had any problems with the clutch engaging. I caught the bad bearing really early so it didn't heat up and cook the compressor. I had that happen on a 1994 SLS I had and it completely fried the whole compressor. Originally, I just wanted to replace the pulley bearing but since the surface of the pulley was worn (grooved), and replacing the bearing is probably best done at a machine shop, I decided to buy the pulley with the bearing preinstalled. Also, the clutch face plate was worn, so I decided to replace it as well. I just ordered a new clutch coil since the original is damaged, most likely due to overheating. The surface of my pulley is very worn also, as is the inside of the clutch plate. So, I am going to replace them both. My coil should be fine so I am going to leave that alone. Thank you all for all the help! It's most appreciated. I'll keep you updated on my progress. Oh yeah, epricedright, the thing was the rusty end of the shaft. Boy do I feel dumb. K.O.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Did you receive the email I sent 6-16? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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