ryanrindone Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Hey everyone - I'm new to the site and have a question. I have a 1993 Allante with 48k miles and today experienced some engine "chugging" with lots of white smoke coming out of the tailpipe. Driving home from work my car looked like an old smoker. My first thought was I'm either burning oil (I just topped it off two days ago) or somehow water is making its way through a gasket and into my combustion chambers. There is a faint smell of unburned gasoline and the engine continues to chug. It's not nearly as responsive as it was yesterday. I have an appointment with my mechanic tomorrow but I'm interested whether anyone else has experienced this problem. ANy ideas? I'm waiting for the engine to cool off so I can take a look at the coolant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Unfortunately, this sounds like classic blown head gasket symptoms to me. I hope not but its very possible. You can determine this three ways 1) pressurize the cooling system and see if it holds and 2) do a compression test or ever better 3) pressurize each cylinder with the radiator or tank cover off to see if you get air coming through the cooling system. You can also have the coolant tested for hydrocarbon presence... You can buy a tester at Napa. If you do have a blow head gasket it is most probably from a pulled head bolt, make sure that they time-sert the engine, do a search for timesert.. Good Luck, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanrindone Posted January 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Mike - Thanks for the info. That's a bummer but I'll print out what you wrote and have my mechanic investigate what you have suggested. Anyone have any good news? - Ryan quote name='BodybyFisher' date='Jan 18 2006, 07:35 PM' post='69262'] Unfortunately, this sounds like classic blown head gasket symptoms to me. I hope not but its very possible. You can determine this three ways 1) pressurize the cooling system and see if it holds and 2) do a compression test or ever better 3) pressurize each cylinder with the radiator or tank cover off to see if you get air coming through the cooling system. You can also have the coolant tested for hydrocarbon presence... You can buy a tester at Napa. If you do have a blow head gasket it is most probably from a pulled head bolt, make sure that they time-sert the engine, do a search for timesert.. Good Luck, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Based on your discription of a gasoline smell, I would guess a very rich fuel condition. Leaky FPR or injectors stuck open. Get down and smell the exhaust smoke close up. I'll bet it smells like fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Ryan, Let's hope it is not head gasket (very expensive repair). Does the engine overheat under load? Does the exhaust smell like coolant? How did you maintain the cooling system? Periodic coolant change, GM coolant supplements added to coolant etc.? The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanrindone Posted January 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Ryan, Let's hope it is not head gasket (very expensive repair). Does the engine overheat under load? Does the exhaust smell like coolant? How did you maintain the cooling system? Periodic coolant change, GM coolant supplements added to coolant etc.? In response to the two questions - the exhaust does smell a bit like fuel. If there is a coolant smell, it's been overpowered by unburned fuel. The engine doesn't overheat under load. Since I purchased the car about a month ago from a family friend, I can't speak from memory about the maintenance history of the vehicle. I am still sifting through two inches of repair records to put together an itemized repair history. I know these cars do have their problems, but what a gorgeous vehicle! I've wanted one for years and unfortunately I'm off to a rocky start with the car. I appreciate the suggestions from all of you and I hope no-one minds if I print this out to give to my mechanic when I see him tomorrow. My mechanic has been in business for 30+ years in the St. Pete Fl. area and has always worked on Cadillacs. I'm sure he'll be able to fix the problem but I just hope it doesn't break the bank. Take care- Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 OK, my money is on the FPR. Cheap easy fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 OK, my money is on the FPR. Cheap easy fix. Yep, does not look like head gasket. Ryan, row fuel is hard on cat. converter. Do not run the engine. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Interesting, the white smoke (old smoker) out of the exhaust and rough idle caused me to lean toward head gasket. I hope Ranger and Adallak are correct! You might luck out here.... Good Luck Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhall Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Hi all, Gotta chime in and agree with the FPR diagnosis. 50K miles and headgaskets seem way too early. The crosshatch in the cylinders isn't worn at all at 50K! Ryan - I grew up in St. Pete and know the area very well. Who's the guy you're using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 jhall, what is causing the white smoke? You see the mileage didn't interest me only the age (1993). Can a bad FPR cause white smoke? I would think that a rich mixture would cause black smoke, Thanks, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Mike, White smoke is extremely rich unburnt fuel condition. Bbob explained it once in his usual detailed manner. As I recall it had to do with very rich condition in a confined space (cylinder) and the fuel not being burnt, thus looking like smoke as opposed to what your are thinking of, the standard black smoke condition. I was very surprised to hear his explanation. At the time, I would have bet money that black smoke is rich, blue is oil and white is coolant. True, most of the time but, not always. Bottom line is, if it is white, smell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 rindo, I've got to chime in on this too I once had an improperly seated FPR on my '93 N*...the result? A 'chugging' motor, and clouds of white smoke with a fuel 'scent'..... Hope that's all it is, bud. Good luck, and congrats on bagging a true classic! '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 jhall, what is causing the white smoke? You see the mileage didn't interest me only the age (1993). Can a bad FPR cause white smoke? I would think that a rich mixture would cause black smoke, Thanks, Mike Hey thanks Ranger, that is EXACTLY what I thought WHITE=coolant! The learning CONTINUES.... Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 I'm with Ranger and Adallak on this one too. White smoke in this case being more like "gasoline steam". Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 "gasoline steam". Good discription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 That is a heck of a lot of gas! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Yes, and that is what it takes for "white smoke". A lesser amount will likely show up as black smoke, that we are all used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanrindone Posted January 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Thanks for all the replies. I wish I could write back with news on what the problem was but no such luck. After all the hype - I started it this morning to bring it down to Reliable Auto in St Pete. I work for the owner's son in Clearwater. So anyway, I'm driving the Allante down the 275 and it's running like a champ. No white smoke, chugging or gasoline smell. Got to the garage and we all shrugged our shoulders and agreed that I'd bring it back when the problem resurfaced. With all the suggestions mentioning the FPR, I'll probably go ahead and have them replace it as a precautionary measure when I bring the car in for its next oil change - it's due in about a month anyway. Hi all, Gotta chime in and agree with the FPR diagnosis. 50K miles and headgaskets seem way too early. The crosshatch in the cylinders isn't worn at all at 50K! Ryan - I grew up in St. Pete and know the area very well. Who's the guy you're using? Bob Raday - owns Reliable Auto off the 22nd st exit on 275 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Check the FPR to see if it is leaking. If not, leave well enough alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 A failed FPR wouldn't 'heal' itself. My guess is an injector was stuck 'open' during the white smoke episode; good thing it didn't hydrolock the engine! Particulate carbon results from combustion while fuel is well in excess of the available oxygen. If the mixture becomes so rich that combustion can no longer occur, only vapourised fuel will be observed in the exhaust. At 50,000 miles in 13 years, this car probably spent a lot of time in storage, and would likely benefit from an extended run (and possibly a coolant change if this area has been neglected). ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 I'm with Ranger and Adallak on this one too. White smoke in this case being more like "gasoline steam". Don't back up to a burning pile of leaves, or other fire source! You may find out the hard way if it is gasoline vapor! Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhall Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 rindoneuk, Keep us posted. It will likely surface again!! I lived on 88th ave at 7th street in St. Pete and know the surrounding areas pretty well considering all the construction that has occurred in the last 15 years or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadiKing Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Did anyone mention to change the oil BEFORE you drive it any more.... Some, lots?, of that fuel has to be in the oil, no? Gasoline doesn't make good oil. my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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