Logan Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 As some may know....we are playing in the airbag data arena field now. Found this really strange picture on Google.... Anyways....some of the kids might not know that GM did offer airbags on a few models in the early '70's. I think they were about a $600 option back then... Impalas, Olds 88s and 98s, etc. Here is a shot of a 1974 Olds being crash tested.....bizarre....the picture is 30 years old. Looks like it was taken yesterday.... Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIMDTS Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 Hi Logan I checked out the links And I did not know that these cars even had black box,s in them..Can be a good thing or a tattle tale not sure if i like this feature in my car..Nice pic.. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 During the 1974 model year, Oldsmobile delivered a Toronado Brougham with the first production "air cushion restraint system". The car went to GM president Ed Cole. It was offered on selected Delta 88, Ninety-Eight, and Toronado models. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted February 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 Yeah....few people know about the airbag SDM black box data. Best case we have seen yet.... Florida v. Walker, 20th Judicial Circuit, Lee County, Case No. 00-002866CF RTC (2003). This was a criminal case with a two vehicle, head-on collision. The defendant was charged with two counts of Vehicular Homicide. At issue was the defendant's speed and in which lane the collision occurred. The EDR provided evidence the defendant was not speeding at the time of the collision. The jury found the defendant not guilty. This was a trial court and not published. Currently working on a case out of Ohio. '98 Corvette. The police went and got a court order to grab the airbag SDM. Problem is...they grabbed the PCM.....then claimed the '98 Corvette does not have a recording airbag SDM. It does....its in the console under the heater controls. Its unbelievable and out of control....... www.airbagcrash.com Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 Yeah....few people know about the airbag SDM black box data.Currently working on a case out of Ohio. '98 Corvette. The police went and got a court order to grab the airbag SDM. Problem is...they grabbed the PCM.....then claimed the '98 Corvette does not have a recording airbag SDM. It does....its in the console under the heater controls. Its unbelievable and out of control....... www.airbagcrash.com So Dave, this is just the beginning?....Kinda scary. In what year cars did the retrievable SDM data become available? '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted February 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 Pretty much any airbag system has recorded data. But...you need special equipment to get the data....and a agreement with the car company. GM released the airbag data. Honda, BMW, etc may not be too far behind. Currently the software goes back to 1994. Future software upgrades may allow to go back even farther. Heres the current GM list of cars with airbag SDM data and location of the airbag SDM- General Motors: 1994 Buick Commercial -LF side under dash Buick Roadmaster -LF side under dash Cadillac Commercial -LF side under dash Cadillac Fleetwood -Call Chevrolet Caprice -LF side under dash Chevrolet Commercial -LF side under dash Pontiac Grand Prix -Under RF seat General Motors: 1995 Buick Commercial -LF side under dash Buick Le Sabre -Under RF seat Buick Park Avenue -Under RF seat Buick Regal -Under RF seat Buick Roadmaster -LF side under dash Cadillac Commercial -LF side under dash Cadillac Concours -Under LF seat Cadillac Deville -Under LF seat Cadillac Eldorado -Under LF seat Cadillac Fleetwood -LF side under dash Cadillac Seville -Under LF seat Chevrolet Caprice -LF side under dash Chevrolet Impala -LF side under dash Chevrolet Lumina -Under RF seat Chevrolet Metro -Under center console Chevrolet Monte Carlo -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Eighty Eight -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Ninety Eight -Under RF seat Pontiac Bonneville -Under RF seat Pontiac Grand Prix -Under RF seat Pontiac Firefly -Under center console Saturn All Models -Under center console General Motors: 1996 Buick Commercial -LF side under dash Buick Le Sabre -Under RF seat Buick Park Avenue -Under RF seat Buick Regal -Under RF seat Buick Riviera -Under RF seat Buick Roadmaster -LF side under dash Buick Skylark -Under RF seat Cadillac Commercial -LF side under dash Cadillac Concours -Under LF seat Cadillac Deville -Under LF seat Cadillac Eldorado -Under LF seat Cadillac Fleetwood -LF side under dash Cadillac Seville -Under LF seat Chevrolet Astro -Under LF seat Chevrolet Camaro -Under center console Chevrolet Caprice -LF side under dash Chevrolet Cavalier -Under RF seat Chevrolet Express -Under LF seat Chevrolet Impala -LF side under dash Chevrolet Lumina -Under RF seat Chevrolet Metro -Call- Under center console Chevrolet Monte Carlo -Under RF seat Geo Tracker -Call- Under center console GMC Safari -Under LF seat GMC Savana -Under LF seat Oldsmobile Achieva -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Aurora -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Eighty Eight -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Ninety Eight -Under RF seat Pontiac Bonneville -Under RF seat Pontiac Firebird -Under center console Pontiac Firefly -Call-Under center console Pontiac Grand AM -Under RF seat Pontiac Grand Prix -Under RF seat Pontiac Sunfire -Under RF seat Saturn All models -Under center console General Motors: 1997 Buick Century -Under RF seat Buick LeSabre -Under RF seat Buick Park Avenue -Under RF seat Buick Regal -Under RF seat Buick Riviera -Under RF seat Buick Skylark -Under RF seat Cadillac Commercial -Under LF seat Cadillac Concours -Under LF seat Cadillac Deville -Under LF seat Cadillac Eldorado -Under LF seat Cadillac Seville -Under LF seat Chevrolet Astro -Under LF seat Chevrolet Camaro -Under center console Chevrolet Cavalier -Under RF seat Chevrolet Corvette -Behind accessory trim plate, under heater and AC control Chevrolet Express -Under LF seat Chevrolet Lumina -Under RF seat Chevrolet Malibu -Under RF seat Chevrolet Metro -Call-Under center console Chevrolet Monte Carlo -Under RF seat Chevrolet Silverado -Under LF seat Chevrolet Suburban -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tahoe -Under LF seat Chevrolet Venture -Call-Under RF seat Geo Tracker -Call-Under center console GM1 EV1 -RF side of battery pack tunn GMC Safari -Under LF seat GMC Savana -Under LF seat GMC Sierra -Under LF seat GMC Suburban -Under LF seat GMC Yukon -Under LF seat Oldsmobile Achieva -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Aurora -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Eighty Eight -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Regency -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Silhouette -Under RF seat Pontiac Bonneville -Under RF seat Pontiac Firebird -Under center console Pontiac Firefly -Call-Under center console Pontiac Grand AM -Under RF seat Pontiac Grand Prix -Under RF seat Pontiac Sunfire -Under RF seat Pontiac Trans Sport -Under RF seat Saturn All models -Under center console General Motors: 1998 Buick Century -Under RF seat Buick LeSabre -Under RF seat Buick Park Avenue -Under RF seat Buick Regal -Under RF seat Buick Riviera -Under RF seat Buick Skylark -Under RF seat Cadillac Commercial -Under LF seat Cadillac Deville -Under LF seat Cadillac Eldorado -Under RF seat Cadillac Seville -Under RF seat Chevrolet Astro -Under LF seat Chevrolet Blazer -Under center console Chevrolet Camaro -Under center console Chevrolet Cavalier -Under RF seat Chevrolet Corvette -Behind accessory trim plate, under heater and AC control Chevrolet Express -Under LF seat Chevrolet Lumina -Under RF seat Chevrolet Malibu -Under RF seat Chevrolet Metro -Call-Under center console Chevrolet Monte Carlo -Under RF seat Chevrolet S10 -Under center console Chevrolet S10 electric -Under center console Chevrolet Silverado -Under LF seat Chevrolet Suburban -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tahoe -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tracker -Call-Under center console Chevrolet Venture -Call-Under LF seat GMC Jimmy -Under center console GMC Safari -Under LF seat GMC Savana -Under LF seat GMC Sierra -Under LF seat GMC Sonoma -Under center console GMC Suburban -Under LF seat GMC Yukon -Under LF seat Oldsmobile Achieva -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Aurora -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Bravada -Under center console Oldsmobile Cutlass -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Eighty Eight -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Intrigue -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Regency -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Silhouette -Call-Under RF seat Pontiac Bonneville -Under RF seat Pontiac Firebird -Under center console Pontiac Firefly -Call-Under center console Pontiac Grand AM -Under RF seat Pontiac Grand Prix -Under RF seat Pontiac Sunfire -Under RF seat Pontiac Trans Sport -Call-Under RF seat Saturn All models -Under center console General Motors: 1999 Buick Century -Under RF seat Buick Le Sabre -Under RF seat Buick Park Avenue -Under RF seat Buick Regal -Under RF seat Buick Riveria -Under RF seat Cadillac Commercial -Under LF seat Cadillac Deville -Under LF seat Cadillac Eldorado -Under LF seat Cadillac Escalade -Under LF seat Cadillac Seville -Under RF seat Chevrolet Astro -Under LF seat Chevrolet Blazer -Under center console Chevrolet Camaro -Under center console Chevrolet Cavalier -Under RF seat Chevrolet Corvette -Behind accessory trim plate, under heater and AC control Chevrolet Express -Under LF seat Chevrolet Lumina -Under RF seat Chevrolet Malibu -Under RF seat Chevrolet Metro -Call-Under center console Chevrolet Monte Carlo -Under RF seat Chevrolet S10 -Under center console Chevrolet S10 Electric -Under center console Chevrolet Silverado -Under LF seat Chevrolet Suburban -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tahoe -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tracker -Call-Under center console Chevrolet Venture -Call-Under LF seat GM1 EV1 -RF side of battery pack tunn GMC Jimmy -Under center console GMC Safari -Under LF seat GMC Savana -Under LF seat GMC Sierra -Under LF seat GMC Sonoma -Under center console GMC Suburban -Under LF seat GMC Yukon -Under LF seat Oldsmobile Alero -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Aurora -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Bravada -Under center console Oldsmobile Cutlass -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Eighty Eight -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Intrigue -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Silhouette -Call-Under RF seat Pontiac Bonneville -Under RF seat Pontiac Firebird -Under center console Pontiac Firefly -Call-Under center console Pontiac Grand AM -Under RF seat Pontiac Grand Prix -Under RF seat Pontiac Sunfire -Under RF seat Pontiac Trans Sport -Call-Under RF seat Saturn All Models -Under center console General Motors: 2000 Buick Century -Under RF seat Buick LeSabre -Under center console Buick Park Avenue -Under center console Buick Regal -Under RF seat Cadillac Commercial -Under center console Cadillac Deville -Under center console Cadillac Eldorado -Under LF seat Cadillac Escalade -Under LF seat Cadillac Seville -Under RF seat Chevrolet Astro -Under LF seat Chevrolet Blazer -Under center console Chevrolet Camaro -Under center console Chevrolet Cavalier -Under RF seat Chevrolet Corvette -Behind accessory trim plate, under heater and AC control Chevrolet Express -Under LF seat Chevrolet Impala -Under RF seat Chevrolet Lumina -Under RF seat Chevrolet Malibu -Under RF seat Chevrolet Metro -Call-Under center console Chevrolet Monte Carlo -Under RF seat Chevrolet S10 -Under center console Chevrolet Silverado -Under LF seat Chevrolet Silverado -Under LF seat Chevrolet Suburban -Under LF seat Chervrolet Suburban -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tahoe -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tahoe -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tracker -Call-Under center console Chevrolet Venture -Under RF seat GMC Jimmy -Under center console GMC Safari -Under LF seat GMC Savana -Under LF seat GMC Sierra -Under LF seat GMC Sierra -Under LF seat GMC Sonoma -Under center console GMC Suburban -Under LF seat GMC Yukon -Under LF seat GMC Yukon -Under LF seat Oldsmobile Alero -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Bravada -Under center console Oldsmobile Intrigue -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Silhouette -Under RF seat Pontiac Bonneville -Under center console Pontiac Firebird -Under center console Pontiac Firefly -Call-Under center console Pontiac Grand Am -Under RF seat Pontiac Grand Prix -Under RF seat Pontiac Montana -Under RF seat Pontiac Sunfire -Under RF seat Saturn All but LS -Under center console General Motors: 2001 Buick Century -Under RF seat Buick LeSabre -Under center console Buick Park Avenue -Under center console Buick Regal -Under RF seat Buick Rendezvous -Under RF seat Cadillac Commercial -Under center console Cadillac Deville -Under center console Cadillac Eldorado -Under LF seat Cadillac Escalade -Under LF seat Cadillac Seville -Under RF seat Chevrolet Astro -Under LF seat Chevrolet Blazer -Under center console Chevrolet Camaro -Under center console Chevrolet Cavalier -Under RF seat Chevrolet Corvette -Behind accessory trim plate, under heater and AC control Chevrolet Express -Under LF seat Chevrolet Impala -Under RF seat Chevrolet Lumina -Under RF seat Chevrolet Malibu -Under RF seat Chevrolet Metro -Call-Under center console Chevrolet Monte Carlo -Under RF seat Chevrolet S10 -Under center console Chevrolet Silverado -Under LF seat Chevrolet Suburban -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tahoe -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tracker -Call-Under center console Chevrolet Venture -Under RF seat GMC Jimmy -Under center console GMC Safari -Under LF seat GMC Savana -Under LF seat GMC Sierra -Under LF seat GMC Sonoma -Under center console GMC Suburban -Under LF seat GMC Yukon -Under LF seat Oldsmobile Alero -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Aurora -Under center console Oldsmobile Bravada -Under center console Oldsmobile Intrigue -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Silhouette -Under RF seat Pontiac Aztek -Under RF seat Pontiac Bonneville -Under center console Pontiac Firebird -Under center console Pontiac Firefly -Call-Under center console Pontiac Grand Am -Under RF seat Pontiac Grand Prix -Under RF seat Pontiac Montana -Under RF seat Pontiac Sunfire -Under RF seat Saturn All but LS -Under center console General Motors: 2002 Buick Century -Under RF seat Buick LeSabre -Under center console Buick Park Avenue -Under center console Buick Regal -Under RF seat Buick Rendezvous -Under RF seat Cadillac Commercial -Under center console Cadillac Deville -Call Cadillac Eldorado -Under LF seat Cadillac Escalade -Under LF seat Cadillac Seville -Under RF seat Chevrolet Avalanche -Under LF seat Chevrolet Astro -Under LF seat Chevrolet Blazer -Under center console Chevrolet Camaro -Under center console Chevrolet Cavalier -Under RF seat Chevrolet Corvette -Behind accessory trim plate, under heater and AC control Chevrolet Express -Under LF seat Chevrolet Impala -Under RF seat Chevrolet Malibu -Under RF seat Chevrolet Monte Carlo -Under RF seat Chevrolet S10 -Under center console Chevrolet Silverado -Under LF seat Chevrolet Suburban -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tahoe -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tracker -Call-Under center console Chevrolet TrailBlazer -Under center console Chevrolet Venture -Under RF seat GMC Envoy -Under center console GMC Safari -Under LF seat GMC Savana -Under LF seat GMC Sierra -Under LF seat GMC Sonoma -Under center console GMC Suburban -Under LF seat GMC Yukon -Under LF seat Oldsmobile Alero -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Aurora -Under center console Oldsmobile Bravada -Under center console Oldsmobile Intrigue -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Silhouette -Under RF seat Pontiac Aztek -Under RF seat Pontiac Bonneville -Under center console Pontiac Firebird -Under center console Pontiac Grand Am -Under RF seat Pontiac Grand Prix -Under RF seat Pontiac Montana -Under RF seat Pontiac Sunfire -Under RF seat Saturn All cars except LS -Under center console Saturn VUE -Under center console General Motors: 2003 Buick Century -Under RF seat Buick LeSabre -Under center console Buick Park Avenue -Under center console Buick Regal -Under RF seat Buick Rendezvous -Under RF seat Cadillac Commercial -Under center console Cadillac CTS -Under center console Cadillac Deville -Under center console Cadillac Escalade -Under LF seat Cadillac XLR Roadster -Behind accessory trim plate, under heater and AC control Cadillac Seville -Under RF seat Chevrolet Avalanche -Under LF seat Chevrolet Astro -Under LF seat Chevrolet Blazer -Under center console Chevrolet Cavalier -Under RF seat Chevrolet Corvette -Behind accessory trim plate, under heater and AC control Chevrolet Express -Under LF seat Chevrolet Impala -Under RF seat Chevrolet Kodiak -Under LF seat Chevrolet Malibu -Under RF seat Chevrolet Monte Carlo -Under RF seat Chevrolet S10 -Under center console Chevrolet Silverado -Under LF seat Chevrolet SSR -Call Chevrolet Suburban -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tahoe -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tracker -Call-Under center console Chevrolet TrailBlazer -Under center console Chevrolet Venture -Under RF seat GMC Envoy -Under center console GMC Safari -Under LF seat GMC Savana -Under LF seat GMC Sierra -Under LF seat GMC Sonoma -Under center console GMC Suburban -Under LF seat GMC Top Kick -Under LF seat GMC Yukon -Under LF seat Hummer H2 -Under LF seat Oldsmobile Alero -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Aurora -Under center console Oldsmobile Bravada -Under center console Oldsmobile Intrigue -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Silhouette -Under RF seat Pontiac Aztek -Under RF seat Pontiac Bonneville -Under center console Pontiac Firebird -Under center console Pontiac Grand Am -Under RF seat Pontiac Grand Prix -Under RF seat Pontiac Montana -Under RF seat Pontiac Sunfire -Under RF seat Saturn All cars except LS -Under center console Saturn ION -Under center console Saturn VUE -Under center console General Motors: 2004 Buick Century -Under RF seat Buick LeSabre -Center tunnel Buick Park Avenue -Center tunnel Buick Rainier -Call Buick Regal -Under RF seat Buick Rendezvous -Under RF seat Cadillac Commercial -Center tunnel Cadillac CTS -Center tunnel Cadillac Deville -Center tunnel Cadillac Escalade -Under LF seat Cadillac EXT -Under LF seat Cadillac XLR Roadster -Behind accessory trim plate, under heater and A/C control Cadillac Seville -Under RF seat Cadillac SRX -Center tunnel Chevrolet Avalanche -Under LF seat Chevrolet Astro -Under LF seat Chevrolet Blazer -Center tunnel Chevrolet Colorado -Center tunnel Chevrolet Cavalier -Under RF seat Chevrolet Corvette -Behind accessory trim plate, under heater and A/C control Chevrolet Express -Under LF seat Chevrolet Impala -Under RF seat Chevrolet Kodiak -Under LF seat Chevrolet Monte Carlo -Under RF seat Chevrolet S10 -Center tunnel Chevrolet Silverado -Under LF seat Chevrolet SSR -Call Chevrolet Suburban -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tahoe -Under LF seat Chevrolet Tracker -Call-Center tunnel Chevrolet TrailBlazer -Center tunnel Chevrolet Venture -Under RF seat GMC Envoy -Center tunnel GMC Safari -Under LF seat GMC Savana -Under LF seat GMC Sierra -Under LF seat GMC Sonoma -Center tunnel GMC Suburban -Under LF seat GMC Top Kick -Under LF seat GMC Yukon -Under LF seat Hummer H2 -Under LF seat Oldsmobile Alero -Under RF seat Oldsmobile Bravada -Center tunnel Oldsmobile Silhouette -Under RF seat Pontiac Aztek -Under RF seat Pontiac Bonneville -Center tunnel Pontiac Grand Am -Under RF seat Pontiac Grand Prix -Under RF seat Pontiac Montana -Under RF seat Pontiac Sunfire -Under RF seat Saturn All cars except ION -Center tunnel Saturn ION -Center tunnel Saturn VUE -Under center console Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Anyways....some of the kids might not know that GM did offer airbags on a few models in the early '70's. I think they were about a $600 option back then...Impalas, Olds 88s and 98s, etc. I don't think ACRS was offered on Impalas. For 1974, it was a $225 option on Calais, DeVille, and Eldorado Coupe models. ACRS was discontinued after 1976, apparently due to lack of interest; I guess this isn't too surprising, since most didn't even want to fasten their seatbelts. One important difference in comparison to newer designs was that ACRS equipped cars did not have front shoulder belt restraints (perceived as an annoyance). There were 3 airbags in total, similar to the Airbank setup of the '90s, but with an extra lower airbag to help control body movement. ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjtjwdad Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Logan Posted on Feb 28 2004, 07:04 AM Yeah....few people know about the airbag SDM black box data. So what exactly does this thing do and will the car function without it. I'm not a fan of airbags anyway. Jim White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted February 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 For Kevinw....remember the seat belt interlocks of '73? People did not like those at all. I guess times change... Still searching for info on the really early GM 'air cushion' systems. The Olds, Buicks, and Cadillacs had them. I think some Caprices had them also....still looking. For tjtjwdad. Pretty much all airbag systems collect crash data. Be it GM or Honda or Mercedes etc. This data is collected to help improve the systems etc. Basically reasearch and development info. The airbag crash data is recorded in the airbag SDM. SDM is for 'sensing diagnostic module.' Couple of years ago GM was sued about collecting 'personal data' in relation the the airbag module/system SDM. So GM said WTF....lets make this data available. So....ok....now you can collect the crash data. It requries some expensive interface module stuff and some software. Provided by Vetronix. A long time partner with GM software. So....ok... again. The problem that pops up is there is no pubilc access to this 'special' equipment. Its law enforcement access vs. public access. Hence the Ohio example. They got a court order to grab the SDM module. They grabbed the wrong module....then claimed there was not a SDM module on the '98 Corvette. Wrong. wrong, wrong. There is a SDM that records data on a '98 Corvette. They are just looking in the wrong place....... And then there is this case out of Florida...... Florida v. John Walker, 20th Judicial Circuit, Lee County, Case No. 00-002866CF RTC (2003). This was a criminal case with a two vehicle, head-on collision. The defendant was charged with two counts of Vehicular Homicide. At issue was the defendant's speed and in which lane the collision occurred. The SDM / EDR provided evidence the defendant was not speeding at the time of the collision. The jury found the defendant not guilty. This was a trial court and not published. Hence us. Police of the police? www.airbagcrash.com Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg P. Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Interesting new world we live in with the SDM and cameras everwhere too. Then of course OnStar is tracking your every move. Even your cell phone company is too. Cool picture of the oldsmobile Logan. I seem to remember that, at the time, airbags were being marketed as an alternative to wearing seatbelts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill K Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 What "data" are we talking about. Speed at time of AB deployment? Speed before the AB deployed? Speed a week ago? Were the brakes applied? Just what does this thing record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 I like the example of a case (also in Florida I think) where at least one female was killed as she backed out of her driveway. The perp was driving some sort of a Pontiac if I recall correctly. He admitted he "may have been speeding a little". The SDM registered a speed of over 100 mph seconds before the impact. He was found guilty of vehicular man-slaughter I believe. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted February 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Jadcock is correct. There is yet another case as mentioned. 100 mph + crash data. Basically, the airbag SDM is recording the last 5 seconds prior to the airbags deploying. DATA AVAILABLE Vehicle speed (in five one-second intervals preceding impact) Engine speed (in five one-second intervals preceding impact) Brake status (in five one-second intervals preceding impact) Throttle position (in five one-second intervals preceding impact) Driver's seat belt state (On/Off) Passenger's airbag enabled or disabled state (On/Off) Airbag Warning Lamp status (On/Off) Time from vehicle impact to airbag deployment Maximum Delta-V for near-deployment event Delta-V vs. time for frontal airbag deployment event Time from vehicle impact to time of maximum Delta-V Time between near-deploy and deploy event (if within 5 seconds) Heres a sample data set....117 mph crash People are being blindsided by these recorders. They make a statement....then the police pull the airbag SDM and decide if your telling the truth or not. I am typically very trusting of police departments etc. But I think we all know examples of where information gets twisted. Again....there is a lack of public access to these data recovery modules. I dont think the police should be the only ones to have them. Hence us. Lots of info on the website....if you look.... www.airbagcrash.com Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted February 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 The case jadcock mentions....the Edwin Matos case.... May 20--Millions of drivers ride with an invisible observer in their cars that they know nothing about, even though its observations could be used for or against them in court. The witness isn't human, but a South Florida vehicular homicide case last week proved it can be a strong voice in the courtroom. Its use in such cases also raises questions about privacy. The black box, a monitoring device in airbag systems, records the driver's actions when a crash triggers the airbag. The box stores data about the vehicle's speed, brake usage and seat belt use in the five seconds before a crash. On Friday, based partly on the testimony of his silent passenger, Edwin Matos was convicted in Broward County on charges of manslaughter and vehicular homicide. He could get 30 years in prison when he is sentenced in June. In August, Matos was driving his 2002 Pontiac Grand Am Firehawk in Pembroke Pines when it crashed into another vehicle, killing two teenagers. Matos testified he was driving about 20 mph over the speed limit of 30 mph. But the black- box data showed Matos was racing at more than 100 mph. Michael Horowitz, the assistant state attorney in Broward who prosecuted the case, said the data helped convict Matos. "It's objective. It's like having a video of how this crash occurred." Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Fascinating thread and probably wind up a real "ball of string"... Seems like there is an "investment oppertunity" out there for some compu-geeks and gear heads to get together! Design a plug-in module that blocks or or overwrites the active SDM data. Of couse this would only be for privacy's sake The car belongs to the owner right? Or is this going to be some version of "Driving is a Priviledge" crap to cap freedoms? Face it, with our society - we are going to be with this type of built-in spyware forever with any and every machine we have, from cars to refrigerators. Consider the evolution of the telephone wars about caller ID, then blocking to foil it, then whatever? The next invention up for bid will be a cell-phone "beacon dis-locator" to prevent tracking. Who says ther's no money in high paranoia ? Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximln Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Cadillac also offered an air bag system on their 74-76 models. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIMDTS Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Hi TDk I am sure these modules can be hacked not to record or by pass that part of the module. Not sure if anyone would own up to doing it though.Just electronics that work on the FM principle = F'ing magic.All it would take is a good tech with an O scope and trace it out.. or better yet a schematic much faster to figure it out.. Cheers Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Design a plug-in module that blocks or or overwrites the active SDM data. Of couse this would only be for privacy's sake The car belongs to the owner right? Yeah, but the life you take is someone else's, and if that life is my wife's or my children's, I for darn sure want to know how and why it was taken. People lie, data doesn't. Information is power. Paranoia is a waste of time. Think about the situation if it was reversed. Your whole family is in the car. Some screwball on a suicide run t-bones the car and kills them all. His story is, "gee officer, I really did try to stop." His SDM would show that at the time of the crash, his throttle position was 100% and the brake position was at 0%, and he was accelerating for the entire 5 seconds. Situation 1) there is no such thing as a module that covers up the data and you get a conviction and this guy is put away for life. Situation 2) he's got this little module that hides his data, and he walks away, saying that your family pulled out in front of him and he couldn't stop. Ahh, but that's his RIGHT, isn't it...to hide data from you and from the police. It's his RIGHT to his PRIVACY isn't it... Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 JIMDTS, as Logan stated This was a criminal case with a two vehicle, head-on collision. The defendant was charged with two counts of Vehicular Homicide. At issue was the defendant's speed and in which lane the collision occurred. The EDR provided evidence the defendant was not speeding at the time of the collision. The jury found the defendant not guilty. This was a trial court and not published. This is when the recorder works FOR you in your own car. -Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted March 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Yeah...I bet that guy or gal kisses their SDM module every morning. Geezze...on the hook for a 20 year prison term and a little airbag module data saves their butt.... The current rule of thumb is....the data belongs to the owner of the car. So keep this in mind...if the insurance company pays off your wreck, the crash data now belongs to them. Insurance companies ARE buying these modules. Its perhaps their #1 loss leader. They will download the data and adjust their rates and database of risk. In the real world, no one really cares about the Kroger parking lot hard fender bender deployments. Its the higher speed crashes where the SDMs are being pulled by police departments. Injures or fatalities issues. But insurance companies will pull the data from every single one to help calculate their risk etc. Where it really gets sticky...is there a hidden database? The bank may feel you are at a higher risk because you may drive a little too fast....and have accidents. So the insurance company rasies their rates.....and maybe the next time you get a car loan the rate is higher?? Or maybe the next time you buy a house....maybe a higher rate is offered....all based on some airbag crash data. As mentioned before....public access is very limited to the Vetronix CDR equipment. Thats why we started the www.airbagcrash.com website....to offer public access to the same exact equipment being used. Its not free....but after the Ohio case blunder....where the police claimed there was not a SDM on the car after pulling the wrong module.....I can see our worth.... www.airbagcrash.com I should note. This was not the intent of this post to self promote airabgcrash.com. It was just a post about a '74 Olds being crash tested picture. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityRick Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Very interesting information! I was curious if the Florida case notes anywhere how the police were able to obtain the module? Did the defendant or his insurance company just hand it over or did it have to be subpoenaed? I would like to think that if I own my car (not lease), no one should be able to take anything out of or off from it without my consent. Also, I want to make sure I understand how this works. Are all twelve inputs being constantly monitored and the five seconds prior to air bag deployment saved? Can the last five seconds be retreived when ever the module is accessed and not just after deployment? My girlfriend got pancaked recently in rush hour traffic. Hit from behind at a dead stop by one of those delivery trucks built on H/D van chassis, her '98 SSEI was pushed into the back of a semi trailer. Due to the height of the "crash bar" trailers are required to have, the bumper went under it and the air bag never deployed. The guy that hit her said she changed lanes in front of him preventing him from being able to stop. She told me she watched him coming in the rearview mirror from the moment she came to a complete stop and had both feet on the break pedal when he hit her. Problem is, can't prove it, but the SDM would have that break position sensor recorded, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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