NO MORE PINGING!!!!!!

[bigjayzway]

I finally got the problem fixed with my engine pinging.

I replaced the egr sensor....still knocked

I cleaned the egr tubes......still knocked

I set the timing to 3 degrees instead of 10......TADA NO MORE PING!!!!!

No more "take off", but I can run 87 octane, and with gas over $1.00 per litre.....I will be last on race day!

I can live with the extra $ in my pocket.

[Poobah]

There have been a number of threads on this board lately discussing the use of regular gas in these cars. Some, but not all, of our members report lower gas milage with regular. Stands to reason that if the car's performance is compromised, you'll tend to have your foot on the gas more to make up for it. Keep an eye on the milage you get with regular - you might not be saving as much money as you think.

[KHE]

I finally got the problem fixed with my engine pinging.

I replaced the egr sensor....still knocked

I cleaned the egr tubes......still knocked

I set the timing to 3 degrees instead of 10......TADA NO MORE PING!!!!!

No more "take off", but I can run 87 octane, and with gas over $1.00 per litre.....I will be last on race day!

I can live with the extra $ in my pocket.

Jay,

Did you retard the timing 3 degrees or did you set it to 3 degrees (retarded 7 degrees)?

I'm thinking that if you retarded the timing 7 degrees, you will lose more MPG than what you save at the pump.

[CaddyChris]

There have been a number of threads on this board lately discussing the use of regular gas in these cars. Some, but not all, of our members report lower gas milage with regular. Stands to reason that if the car's performance is compromised, you'll tend to have your foot on the gas more to make up for it. Keep an eye on the milage you get with regular - you might not be saving as much money as you think.

Hey,

I tried and filled up with 93 a couple weeks ago to see the results to try and get better mileage/weigh my options. I noticed a performance increase but no increase in mpg. I noticed that i wanted to do even more WOT with the 93. I switched back to 87.

Chris

[adallak]

I think the performance (power) has something to do with fuel economy. The more power your engine has the more the car runs when you let the gas pedal off, the better the fuel economy. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Scotty]

Check your gas mileage. I would rather have pinging and get 17 mpg than no pinging and get 14... Retarding the ignition that much so that you can feel it being PIGGY has hurt your gas mileage I would bet.

Did you do this to run on cheaper gas?

[Oldgamer]

I think the performance (power) has something to do with fuel economy. The more power your engine has the more the car runs when you let the gas pedal off, the better the fuel economy. Correct me if I am wrong.

adallak,

with that logic Cadillac should have better milage than Civic.

[adallak]

I think the performance (power) has something to do with fuel economy. The more power your engine has the more the car runs when you let the gas pedal off, the better the fuel economy. Correct me if I am wrong.

adallak,

with that logic Cadillac should have better milage than Civic.

I am talking about a particular car with particular weight, aerodinamic features, oil, gas octane, etc.

[Scotty]

I think the performance (power) has something to do with fuel economy. The more power your engine has the more the car runs when you let the gas pedal off, the better the fuel economy. Correct me if I am wrong.

adallak,

with that logic Cadillac should have better milage than Civic.

[Oldgamer]

adallak,

If you let pedal off on the SAME SPEED the cars will go the same distance if all other variables are equal, despite the differense in a power.

If one car has more power than another, than time it takes to reach the same speed is lower and in average it should take the same quantity of a fuel, that's what you saying? In theoretical world yes, but in reality no. If I reached some speed faster I made that for shorter distance. I still should spent some fuel for supporting that speed until I reach my destination point.

Adallak, please tell me about Transaxle Pressure Switch. How hard is to check it? I loosing my hope that my problem is PRNDL switch. As I realise now the data PD71 is for Transaxle Pressure Switch, not for PRNDL switch, and they are different things. Are they?

[adallak]

adallak,

If you let pedal off on the SAME SPEED the cars will go the same distance if all other variables are equal, despite the differense in a power.

If one car has more power than another, than time it takes to reach the same speed is lower and in average it should take the same quantity of a fuel, that's what you saying? In theoretical world yes, but in reality no. If I reached some speed faster I made that for shorter distance. I still should spent some fuel for supporting that speed until I reach my destination point.

Adallak, please tell me about Transaxle Pressure Switch. How hard is to check it? I loosing my hope that my problem is PRNDL switch. As I realise now the data PD71 is for Transaxle Pressure Switch, not for PRNDL switch, and they are different things. Are they?

I believe the more power (for the same car) means that fuel burnt imore effeciently, and when you let the gas pedal off the car (again that particular one) will go farther untill the speed drops to a certain value.

The adjustment of the switch is described in the manual - you should loosen the bolts that hold it on the tranny and insert a smal diameter drill bit in a hole to set accurate reference point as far as I understand. Usually when that switch is misadjusted you have problem starting car in P. But you never had that problem right? It still maight be bad though if you got a related code. You can get one aftermarket and try. If it does not help.. clean it up and take it back to the store since you obviously did not hurt it.

[Oldgamer]

When you let the gas pedal off, I believe it does no matter what power you have under the hood, because engine has no input to the speed, it's just idle in a best case and breaks in other.

Still (talking about switch), you didn't tell me if Transaxle Pressure Switch and PRNDL switch are the same thing?

[adallak]

When you let the gas pedal off, I believe it does no matter what power you have under the hood, because engine has no input to the speed, it's just idle in a best case and breaks in other.

Still (talking about switch), you didn't tell me if Transaxle Pressure Switch and PRNDL switch are the same thing?

Unfortunately, I do not know about PNDR switch more than I said.

[Oldgamer]

I guess I'm just to lazy to look in a manual!

I will do that tonight.

[WarrenJ]

There have been a number of threads on this board lately discussing the use of regular gas in these cars.  Some, but not all, of our members report lower gas milage with regular.

In the last year or so, during gas price spikes, I've spent a few months on regular and alternately a few months on the big juice. I tried this several times. Relying almost solely on the dash MPG readout (but checking my wallet on occasion) I came to the conclusion that it was basically a "wash." There were no savings to be had. Octane down ---> milage down. Plus, I missed that tire "chirp" when baby shifted second gear at WOT. I'm Hi-Test full time now.

Now HERE'S where I get to show off my ignorance: "Pinging" noises, if I understand correctly, are produced my metal slamming against metal. That doesn't appeal to me. Frankly, I view it as abuse. Baby deserves better. Besides, who wants to sound like a Mercedes diesel?

Regards,

Warren

[canadian95sts]

Hey guys!!!

I tell you all, I am so happy now. I know what everyone means by putting your foot into it more means less gas milage.....BUT.....

I am now getting 22mpg insted od 18, and I don't mind not hammering it right now.

The smell of gas is almost gone(still can't find where it is coming from) amd the milage is up, and best of all NO PING!!!!

I may have to advance it to 4 degrees, as I feel it searching a little bit!

Hey it was either retard the timing, or start doing drive offs like everyone else around here is doing.....LOL

I'm HAPPY

[bigjayzway]

DARN MATT!!!! left his log on in my computer!!!!

The last post was actually me......

REPEAT.......

Hey guys!!!

I tell you all, I am so happy now. I know what everyone means by putting your foot into it more means less gas milage.....BUT.....

I am now getting 22mpg insted od 18, and I don't mind not hammering it right now.

The smell of gas is almost gone(still can't find where it is coming from) amd the milage is up, and best of all NO PING!!!!

I may have to advance it to 4 degrees, as I feel it searching a little bit!

Hey it was either retard the timing, or start doing drive offs like everyone else around here is doing.....LOL

I'm HAPPY

[Norton1]

I'm just finishing up a 10,000 mile test of my mileage. I was running the hi-test and getting 24 or so mileage. I think it got worse when I was hot rodding around. Then fuel went up significantly. So I switched to 87. The mileage didn't seem to change a lot and I wasn't hot-rodding around.

Then I decided I'd do a long term test on low octane. Drive normal, no speeding or law breaking behavior, and guess what.

After 9148 miles I am getting 26.2 MPG. I checked random tank fulls with mileage and gallons filled. 26 mpg. My average speed has been around 50 mph. Now these miles are with mainly myself driving. My wife does use the car some but 90% of this is me. It includes around town, highway, and sitting at the base gate in long lines every morning.

So for me it's the way I drove making a difference and enabling me to run lower octane fuel without worrying about keeping up with someone else. Since I drive 142 miles a day it translates into a huge difference each year on my fuel costs.

And as far as I am concerned - ANY pinging is unhealthy. Pinging is fuel igniting prior to all of the mechanical parts being in place. And when it ignites before it is supposed to it burns VERY hot and will eventually burn a hole in your pistons. So a little pinging just means it will take a bit longer to destroy your motor. And they go off like a bomb when it does this. No pinging is ideal and what the motor is designed to withstand for an appropriate length of time.

It's Friday - so kewl -

Steve

[msilva954]

On one tank of gas I average 20.4mpg on 89 octane....I was thinking of retarding timing and going to 87....but 20mpg city is darn good on the 4.9 me thinks

[KevinW]

And as far as I am concerned - ANY pinging is unhealthy. Pinging is fuel igniting prior to all of the mechanical parts being in place. And when it ignites before it is supposed to it burns VERY hot and will eventually burn a hole in your pistons.

Light throttle pinging (detonation) will not damage anything. Detonation is a post-ignition event; the combustion process is still initiated by an ignition system generated spark. The characteristic sound is generated by 'uneven' combustion causing the cylinder walls of the engine to resonate. Prolonged detonation under high engine loads may eventually lead to pre-ignition, which will destroy a piston as you describe in short order, without any additional audible warning.

[adallak]

My engine has been pinging (light trottle) for 5 years and nearly 70.000 miles with no ill effect.

[bigjayzway]

I can't handle hearing a ping.....at all.

It drives me insane!

Big Jay

[WarrenJ]

My engine has been pinging (light trottle) for 5 years and nearly 70.000 miles with no ill effect.

There's NO WAY I could handle that. A simple belt squeal points me in the direction of "road rage."

I can't handle hearing a ping.....at all.

See? I'm not alone.

Regards,

Warren

[bigjayzway]

NO....NO you are not alone Warren. I will park it, until it is fixed---it drives me that crazy!

[Norton1]

Engine Pinging

by David Schwarze

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"...The piston can overheat and knocking can and will occur. This knocking is caused by ignition of the gas/air mix in your cylinder before the spark of the spark plug. This causes temperature and pressure peaks that will melt your piston, crack your cylinder head, and drop one of your exhaust valves. You have heard about those abrupt deaths of air cooled engines..."

Pinging sounds like rocks being thrown around inside your engine. It will never happen at idle, may happen at part throttle, but is most likely to happen at full throttle. It is usually accompanied by a small amount of smoke out of the tailpipe, but don't rely on that.

Pinging is like... taking a cutting torch to your combustion chamber. Your engine can stand anywhere from less than one second to perhaps minute of pinging before it suffers permanent and serious damage, depending on conditions.

The hotter your engine is, the more likely your engine is to ping. The farther your timing is advanced, the more likely your engine is to ping. The higher your compression ratio is, the more likely your engine is to ping. The lower the octane of gas you use, the more likely your engine is to ping.

So, in order to minimize the risk of pinging, do the following:

Make sure your engine doesn't over heat!

Make sure your timing is not too far advanced.

Make sure your compression ratio is not too high (< 7.5 to 1)

If necessary, use higher octane gas.

If you take care of the first three, you shouldn't have to worry about the last one.

I have been involved in building engines for 40+ years and have never heard of cylinder walls creating the noise. Not saying it isn't true - but you'll need to provide something from a professional so I can believe it.

Detonation is NOT a post ignition event. It is a pre-ignition event. Due to the high temperatures the fuel ignites under compression instead of when the spark ignites it. And only Diesel motors are equipped to handle those pressures and heat.

Steve