1999 Deville help

[Jsblkram]

Help please !!! 
 1999 Deville, 4.6 wont turn over now ???

I have replaced head bolts with oversized stud kit, timing chains and had it back together running for a min, wasn’t pumping oil so shut down. No harm done to motor. Now when ever turn key to start, nothing,no crank,  no clicking from relays. Got all dash lights but radio, and headlights goes off. Reset anti theft, the 10 mins 3 times. Everything comes back to normal but still no crank. Starter checks ok, can manually turn motor over by activating starter relay. Cranks good and strong. But cannot with key. Any help ???? Thanks

[Logan]

Did you mess with the transmission shifter? The car has to be in park or neutral or it will do nothing. 

Maybe pinched wire or blown fuse. 

I did attach a schematic for the 1999 Deville.  

[Jsblkram]

Only unhooked shifter cable. Shifting like it should. I’ve tried in neutral and park with same results. Even unhooked cable and manually shifted transmission ?????

[Jsblkram]

Was thinking maybe disable link but would think it wouldn’t turnover from manually ingaging starter relay which it does ???

[Logan]

When you say you jumped the 'starter relay'.......do you mean you jumped the 'theft deterrent' relay in the schematic?  

 

The car needs to 'think' it's in park or neutral....the actual shifter is not a good indicator of what gear it is actually in. So if the shifter and cable got out of adjustment.....shifter might be in park....but car is really in reverse kind of thing....or the shifter might show reverse....and it's really in park. You might need a scan tool to verify actual gear vs what the shifter is showing.  

[Jsblkram]

I unhooked cable from transmission, don’t have scan tool available at this time, but tried moving car to verify in park and neutral by shifting trans by hand. Moved about 3 foot forward and back in neutral position then shifted back to park verifying by try to move. I know that’s not scientific but all can do at moment. By schematic u showed it would be theft deterrent relay but cover diagram says starter relay. Took cover off relay and ingauged both contacts to turn over motor with starter. Kind of a backwoods way to do it but limited on tools.

[Logan]

It's not so much the transmission that needs to be in park......it's the big PNP switch that has to be in 'park'. 

Anyway....at the theft relay....Pin B should have 12v + all the time. If not....blown fuse or fuseable link. 

                                                Pin F should have 12v + during cranking. If not....blown fuse or fuseable link....or PNP switch bad or out out  'park' or 'neutral' position.....or bad ignition switch. 

 

If both of those test OK.....No ground signal is coming from the cluster.....likely a PASS key problem. 

[Jsblkram]

I’ll check pins this evening and post what I find out. Thanks so much for the help !!!

[Jsblkram]

Ok.

pin B - 12.6 volts

pin F - 12.4 bolts while cranking position.

So it’s looking like a pass key problem. Is there a relearn for the pass key or do I need to change out ignition switch with new keys ?

[Logan]

There are some Passkey related fuses in the trunk.....may be worth a look. See attached schematic. 

 

As for the key....There are 2 ways to reset it.  

One is using a Tech 2 scanner.....which you don't have. 

The other procedure is below..

 

Tools Required:

None

Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF. 
Attempt to start the engine, then release the key to ON (vehicle will not start). 
Observe the SECURITY telltale, after approximately 10 minutes the telltale will turn OFF. 
Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds. 
Repeat steps 1 through 4 two more times for a total of 3 cycles/30 minutes (the vehicle is now ready to relearn the password on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK). 
Important: The vehicle learns the password on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK. You must turn the ignition OFF before attempting to start the vehicle. 

Start the engine (the vehicle has now learned the password). 
With a scan tool, clear any DTCs if needed (history DTCs will self clear after 100 ignition cycles). 

 

 

 

 

[Jsblkram]

Ok. Thank u !!! I’ll post results

[Jsblkram]

Done the pass key reset with no luck. Although now when turn on key, no radio. Had radio before. With key off. Security light is flashing. Turn key on security light goes out but nothing when go to crank. Have headlights, trunk release, gas door working but no radio. Radio was working before reset of pass key

[Jsblkram]

Also checked all fuse in trunk and on fender well. Nothing blowed ????

[Jsblkram]

Found something else, the inadvert power relay is really warm to the touch ??? Have never noticed this before ??? Key has been off for at least ten mins.

[rockfangd]

I wish this came to me sooner.

Disconnect the battery. Inspect the connections very well. Reconnect. They are notorious for coming loose, corroding between, etc...

Battery issues on these can be very tricky. Connections are very important to work properly. 

[Jsblkram]

I’ve checked all connects. Brand new battery cables and post are clean. No corrosion. I’ve changed batteries, checked voltage. 12.6 on battery, 12.4 going to pcm, 12.4 to 12.6 at theft deterrent relay. Can I engage contacts on theft relay and motor will turn over but nothing thru key switch. Whenever I finished motor started right up but had oil pressure probs and shutdown motor. Since then will not turn over with key.

[rockfangd]

Ok. Was there any messages on the cluster? 

Do you have a second ignition key? These years were common for the vats wires to the tumbler to break. They are the tiniest wires. If they break while driving it will warn you that it may not restart. If they break before start it may not start. I always bypassed the vats when customers did not want to have the tumbler fixed. Not a simple fix if that is your issue.

If you know how to pull codes from the IPC this may help to tell you as well. Hold OFF and WARMER buttons to the right of the cluster for a few seconds. It will go into diagnostics. Will flash codes for each module. One module at a time. I would be focusing on PCM and IPC. If you can run this mode post codes here

 

[Jsblkram]

Pulled codes this morn. 
PCM

0122

405

603

IPC-

1910

1255

[rockfangd]

I will try to fill them in and let you know what might help

0122 is TPS circuit A low.

0405 egr circuit A low.

0603 is long term memory reset. (comes from resetting battery.

1910 is open circuit in Alternator L circuit. 

1255 is loss of communication from a module on datalink iirc. ( see more at bottom of this post)

Also will mention to clear codes. Run codes like I posted, while codes are flashing, or after flashing, push fan speed down. 

This will bring you to one module.

keep pressing fan speed down until you get to the module you want

push fan speed up to enter module.

to see module options push fan speed down.

to proceed with option push fan speed up. 

Most modules will only allow you to read codes and clear codes.

To Exit Diagnostics push Recirculate button

Regarding the 1255. What other things are not working?  I know you mentioned radio. When you turn the key on pay close attention to any messages that come up on the instrument cluster. I am wondering if you have a blown fuse somewhere. Pull the black cover off by the left strut tower and check all the fuses in the electrical center. There is also another fuse panel behind the back seat. There is 4 black nuts in the trunk (look on the bottom side of the deck and you will see them sticking down. Remove the cover and the fuse block is toward the left side

 

[Jsblkram]

Rechecked all fuses, cleared all codes from onboard system. Still no turnover with key/ keys. After taking key to start position got more codes.

PCM

PO122

P1122

IPC

B1910

B1983

TCM    1983

everything seems to be working but radio and could not hear fuel pump. Did not put pressure gauge on it but fuel line was pressurized.

[rockfangd]

B1983 occurs with low voltage situation. Less than 9v iirc.

Both modules are showing this.

B1910 is the Alternator L Circuit.

I assume you did pull the black cover off the electrical center? to expose the rest of the fuses and relays.

I would suggest using a multimeter and reading voltage at the electrical center, there is a stud there below the maxifuses. Find a good ground as well, (strut tower works good) Check with key off, key on, During crank.

This will verify if voltage is actually good other than at the battery. 

Does this Deville have one or 2 positive battery cables? Most mid 90s had 2 with a spacer between the 2. Eventually GM started using 1 on some of them

[Jsblkram]

Rechecked all fuses, reset anti theft (3 - 10 mins intervals) cleared all codes via on board system. Still no crank and no radio. Checked voltage

battery- 12.4

stud under fuse block- 12.4 constant

key on- 11.9

crank- 11.9

theft relay pin B - 11.8

theft relay pin F - 11.4 at crank

Has 2 positive cables on one battery connector. One goes to fuse block, one goes to starter. 12.4 bolts everywhere I check cables. Got good ground to body, motor and motor to body. Still stumped why no crank and no radio ????

[rockfangd]

Wow. Sorry it didn't help.

I will look at some diagrams this weekend. I have a few ideas in mind but would rather not see you waste more time. Thank you for the update

[Jsblkram]

Thank you for your help !!! Sorry for the delay. 14 hr shifts can’t do much else. Thanks !!!

[rockfangd]

I know that feeling. Posting between Zzzs lol