Bob D Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 I was over at 'bob the oil guy' for a read, and here's a link to some very good information by a master. Perhaps this level of education and experience makes the 'management' a bit insecure.. Try this, and read up!: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultima...f=1;t=010523;p= '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 404 not found.... The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 .... Perhaps this level of education and experience makes the 'management' a bit insecure.. Try this, and read up!: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultima...f=1;t=010523;p= Guru's posts are in the bit bucket. The facts / truth must somehow be a threat on that site. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted April 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 404 not found.... Try again... '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Bob D, Thanks for the link, it worked this time. My question to bob remains - does the oil life monitor take into account the noticable oil consumption of Northstars? Some 10 qts of fresh oil may be added between oil changes and that seems to be a lot to ignore IMHO. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php I read 'em, he sure is givin' them fits over there! The posts are not hard to find except the early ones where he is posting as Jestel. I posted a note here when that started, but it was immediately removed for some reason, or my cable modem died (it was since replaced). There is a lot of good info on that site, but a lot of it does not apply to the real world designs that need to work for every owner of a car brand........especially the Northstar and the BIG fight to NOT use or understand the GMOLM. For obvious reasons I'm afraid....3000 mile OCI's =BIG BUCKS! Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 I have a real problem with nasty egos like JohnBrowning, who needs the aggravation. There is much too much venon flowing on that site. There is a dislike of GM and the OLM, my blood pressure is rising reading the posts.. I can not believe the thick headed attitudes about the OLM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted April 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 My reason to post the link was purely for educational purposes. It’s easy to ignore the inflated egos and downright idiots. I just glean the valuable information, and share it with friends and family... '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 I have a real problem with nasty egos like JohnBrowning, who needs the aggravation. There is much too much venon flowing on that site. There is a dislike of GM and the OLM, my blood pressure is rising reading the posts.. I can not believe the thick headed attitudes about the OLM... I can't believe that that many people can get that worked up over... Motor oil! I mean, my Lord, with all of the problems in this world...Just buy some 5W30 and pour it in... Now a debate as to who invented calamari, the Greeks or the Italians. Now that would be interesting! Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted April 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 [Now a debate as to who invented calamari, the Greeks or the Italians. Now that would be interesting! Aw, c'mon....They brought it over from China didn't they?... '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Bob D, Thanks for the link, it worked this time. My question to bob remains - does the oil life monitor take into account the noticable oil consumption of Northstars? Some 10 qts of fresh oil may be added between oil changes and that seems to be a lot to ignore IMHO. I think the answer to your question is no but the oil added between changes just adds to the saftey factor built in to the system. I suspect if it took oil added into the equation some guys might never have to change oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Great link -- thanks for the post! We should archive THAT thread here somewhere, and re-post it when the "OLM doesn't work" thread crops up every few months as it tends to do. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 QUOTE (adallak @ Apr 22 2005, 08:06 PM) Bob D, Thanks for the link, it worked this time. My question to bob remains - does the oil life monitor take into account the noticable oil consumption of Northstars? Some 10 qts of fresh oil may be added between oil changes and that seems to be a lot to ignore IMHO. I think the answer to your question is no but the oil added between changes just adds to the saftey factor built in to the system. I suspect if it took oil added into the equation some guys might never have to change oil. laugh.gif -------------------- Ranger, The OLM's algorithm just cannot be the same for 4.9 which does not consume any oil and Northstar which can get even more fresh oil between oil changes when an oil change actually requires... Let's see what Guru will say. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Adallak, The algorithm probably is different as they are different engines. Infact the algorithm is different on some Northstars as mine is capped at 7500 miles and the newer ones are capped at 12,500. That said I am almost positive that it does not take into account oil added as it has no way of knowing when or how much oil is added unless you wait for the "check oil level" message and I suspect most people add oil before that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick94 Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Guru has stated here that the OLI "cap" was raised due to the oils getting better, and the engine getting better (primarily roller cam followers). There's no way the OLI could account for any oil added between changes... it just adds more safety factor. Guru mentioned in his long treatise that once all the calculations are done, a safety factor of two is applied. So... if you end up adding two quarts between changes, maybe the safety factor goes up to something like 2.5! LOL My '94 STS uses almost 2 quarts between changes--which is about 5,000 miles with my driving schedule. I usually add a quart at about the 45% mark, and otherwise forget it until the OLI says to change it. I personally know that the OLI works, because I can see differences in the change interval--during winter (mild in Texas), my interval is about 4800 miles; in summer it ends up more like 5,500. And if I do a long stint of highway driving, it counts down slower. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 My reason to post the link was purely for educational purposes. It’s easy to ignore the inflated egos and downright idiots. I just glean the valuable information, and share it with friends and family... I know Bob but as I read I could see Guru trying to interact and I saw lots of members being nasty toward him. I was browsing through the site not just the link you gave me. You don't see that on this site so it was new for me, it reminded me of the Creative Labs site. As Oynx said, we are talking OIL here They attack everything GM, OLM, engineers wow it was tiring and to think that I registered in that site. Any info I need I'll get here. Where did spagetti come from? Italy or China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 QUOTE (adallak @ Apr 22 2005, 08:06 PM) Bob D, Thanks for the link, it worked this time. My question to bob remains - does the oil life monitor take into account the noticable oil consumption of Northstars? Some 10 qts of fresh oil may be added between oil changes and that seems to be a lot to ignore IMHO. I think the answer to your question is no but the oil added between changes just adds to the saftey factor built in to the system. I suspect if it took oil added into the equation some guys might never have to change oil. laugh.gif -------------------- Ranger, The OLM's algorithm just cannot be the same for 4.9 which does not consume any oil and Northstar which can get even more fresh oil between oil changes when an oil change actually requires... Let's see what Guru will say. I don't believe it can be the same given the fact that the NS sump holds 7.5 quarts. I don't understand the fervor over the OLM, and how defensive people get over it. EVERY manual I have read since I was a kid spoke of changing the OIL at more often for short trips and less often for long trips, the OLM takes that into consideration. There was a post on that site where the OLM suggested that someone change the oil at 2,000 miles but all the trips were 5 minute trips... The OLM does a better job than anyone can do. With regard to the NS oil consumption being taken into consideration I am sure that it is calibrated for normal NS oil usage, if someone is using more than what is considered normal, of course the OLM can't consider that. If I was using 10 quarts between oil changes I would set fire to my car, that would mine that I would be using a quart every 500 miles for a 5000 mile interval, NO WAY would I put up with that..nor do I think is that common Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Bob D, Thanks for the link, it worked this time. My question to bob remains - does the oil life monitor take into account the noticable oil consumption of Northstars? Some 10 qts of fresh oil may be added between oil changes and that seems to be a lot to ignore IMHO. Adallak, after I posted this morning, I was thinking about your post as I drove my daughter to dance. You stated adding 10 quarts between oil changes like that was the NORM and its not. So what you are saying is that for a 5000 mile OCI the NS averages 500 miles per quart and for a 7500 mile OCI the NS averages 750 miles per quart? That is not even close to normal, I am getting between 1500 and 2000 per quart, and I don't top off. It has been stated that topping off can cause excessive oil consumption as the first quart may be consumed extremely fast were as the next quart is consumed over 2000 miles.. If anyone is adding TEN quarts of oil between oil changes, PLEASE POST... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 QUOTE (adallak @ Apr 22 2005, 09:06 PM) Bob D, Thanks for the link, it worked this time. My question to bob remains - does the oil life monitor take into account the noticable oil consumption of Northstars? Some 10 qts of fresh oil may be added between oil changes and that seems to be a lot to ignore IMHO. Adallak, after I posted this morning, I was thinking about your post as I drove my daughter to dance. You stated adding 10 quarts between oil changes like that was the NORM and its not. So what you are saying is that for a 5000 mile OCI the NS averages 500 miles per quart and for a 7500 mile OCI the NS averages 750 miles per quart? That is not even close to normal, I am getting between 1500 and 2000 per quart, and I don't top off. It has been stated that topping off can cause excessive oil consumption as the first quart may be consumed extremely fast were as the next quart is consumed over 2000 miles.. If anyone is adding TEN quarts of oil between oil changes, PLEASE POST... Scotty, If one reads my post carefully one will see I have not stated 10 qts between changes as a norm..."may be added" does not mean "must be added". I just remember that 1 quart per 1000 miles is considered acceptable for Northstar right? New Northstars may go up to 12.500 miles between oil changes right? So in this case some 11 qtrs would be added, correct? Though it may be not a norm but something what would be considered normal or acceptable by the manufacturer right? My point is that whatever is the particular oil consumption 1000 miles per quart or 2000 per quart it is still significant volume to be ignored. I believe replenishing the oil between oil changes has been taken into account. I just want to know HOW it was taken into account. That's it. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Yes adallak but you are using extreme parameters not norm parameters your point could have been made using norm parameters. I am not trying to attack you, its me, I have a problem with extremes... It could be because I am still reacting from something I read on the bobs oil site, where this individual said the NS burns oil and its NOT a reliable engine. Your example will be read by others that are just looking for support, that is what I was thinking about this morning.. Maybe we need to do a survey of NS oil consumption... I don't believe that the OIL added is taken into account at all over an above NORMAL oil consumption that was probably built into the original parameters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Yes Scotty, I took extreme conditions but still within what is considered acceptable. And as you see normal oil consumption is just the extrime one multiplied by 0.5. It is still quite noticable. The last thing I wanted was being used by Northstar enemies! I just want to make sure that the oil consumption factor was not somehow overlooked. This morning I tried to write a couple of equations taking into account oil consumption.... the task is quite complex and I did not do any serious (I mean serious) math for maybe ... gosh... fifteen years! So, I gave up. Maybe some other day The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Guru, I see that Mobil came out today with a site that is claiming three new oils. One is Guaranteed to go 15,000 miles. Here is the link. http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil...e/Homepage.aspx Thoughts? Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 The oil life monitor does not take into account oil added between fills. It always assumes that the engine keeps the original crankcase fill from the point it was last reset. Keep in mind that as oil is used by the engine and new oil is added it simply adds to the safety factor of the oil life monitor because of the spike of fresh additives in the fresh quart of oil. But...it is a bit of a stretch to assume that this would push the change interval out all the time when oil is added. There are always contaminates building up in the crank case and adding a fresh quart of oil does not eliminate them. It would help the oil deal with them better, maybe, but, at some point, it is always a good idea to drain the sump (and the contaminates) and start with a fresh charge of oil. Thanks bbobinsky for the clarification. Frankly, I thought that average oil consumption has been taken into account for Northstars. Even in good cases it is still a few quarts between oil changes which is a lot RELATIVELY speaking. I understand that current algorythm is on the safe side... but looks like OLM takes into account many other parameters affecting oil performance and possibly overlooks one (added fresh oil) which might play actually a bigger role. I do not want to start another fight , sure prodessionals from GM know better, but I personally would include the AVERAGE oil consumption numbers in the algorythm since the common sense says to do that. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 I read your posts Guru on bitog site and periodically checked back to notice that they were dissappearing. Big Brother at work so it seems. I don't know what is so difficult about reading and following the directions/ recommendations of the manufacturer. Day after day I read this post or that post of some would be brainiac that claims to know more then the manufacturer on what is best. It amazes me that this issue still comes up. Just when I think there's hope for mankind some idiot steps forward to challenge that notion. It's like when you were a kid and mom said not to touch that hot stove burner because it'll burn you. Well let's face it, some of us touched it didn't we??? Even though we knew better. Because deep down inside there was this little voice saying "bah! she doesn't know what she's talking about...... hmmm I wonder how hot it really is". And you found out. Right about now some of you are laughing but rest assured that snake oil producers know that in every one of us there is that little voice just dying to be heard. Isn't this simply a common sense issue??? Don't get me going. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 bbobynski, I thought that the Mobil site was new. It said "Launched 4/23/2005, last modified 4/23/05." I just went back there & entered my 94 SLS W/ 175000 miles & they recommended: Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-30 Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-30 fully synthetic motor oil is designed for today's longer service intervals. It provides guaranteed performance and protection for 15,000 miles or one year. Mobil 1 Extended Performance products contain 50 percent more SuperSyn, 37 percent more cleaning agents, and 36 percent more anti-wear additives than Mobil 1. Current Vehicle: Year: 1994 Make: Cadillac Model: Seville Engine Type: 8 cyl. 4.6 Liter Northstar Filter matches for the vehicle you selected: Mobil 1 Mobil 1 Model M1-206 Other options Purolator Model L25288 Purolator Model PL25288 Fram Model PH3675 Just to let you know, I am not interested in changing brands of oil. I have been following some of the recent posts on the subject and I saw this Mobiloil pop-up. I just clicked on it to see what it said. I find it interesting that their oil filter choices neglected to mention A/C Delco. Why would that be? I have always found A/C Delco filters to be superior. I was not happy when A/C dropped making oil filters for aircraft. for many years we had no choice but to use Champion. As I cut filters for inspection on a routine basis, if have found that the A/C filters had more filter material area that the Champion for the same application. I believe A/C called it a "W" fold. As long as I am mentioning aircraft and Mobil, Mobil had to pull their Mobil 1 aircraft oil from the market. Something about causing excessive sludge build-up. I believe that it proved to be intolerant of the tetra eythel lead that is still used in piston engine aircraft fuel. Anyway, both of my vehicles have been brought up on Pennzoil 10W-30. A have been very happy with the results that I have gotten. My 96 Suburban with the 5.7 has over 300,000 miles and still has not had the rocker covers off. I can't complain about that. Keep up the good work, I learn something each time I read one of your posts. Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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