WarrenJ Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 It's been quite a while since a thread gave me such belly laughs! Thanks for your insites Guru; Iv'e a new found appreciation for your sense of humor. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 My only comment would be that Cadillac is not for everyone. That is what I usually like to say when somebody stupid makes a comment that my Caddy must eat a lot of gas (since there is nothing else bad to be told, by looking at the car or sitting in a front seat). If I start explaining that my 10 year old car still goes 20 MGH in New York, and comparing to for example new Audi A6 who goes 17 MPG, and I do not even want to mention the SUV-s, so my response would be..."well this car is not for everyone, I can afford it and I am enjoying every minute of it..." Heh. Nobody really believes me when I tell them my V8 Cadillac gets 20/30 mpg. One of they ladies at work said, "that's what my Saturn [Vue] gets!" I usually have to prove it to people on the DIC when they're riding with me because they don't believe it. That's usually followed by a comment like, "well if you ever decide to sell it..." Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Excellent information! Not many places you can go to get a engineering lesson and belly laugh at the same time! I have been a long time reader of this board (even in it's previous form) though until recently, short on time for posting, and I have always enjoyed a good "schooling" by Bbobynski! The insight into "What they were thinking when they designed and built this?" both facinates me and makes me have a lot of respect for the testing and validation behind the performance in our cars. Thanks to Bbobynski and everyone for the vault of fact based and real world knowledge amassed in the archives of this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Excellent information! Not many places you can go to get a engineering lesson and belly laugh at the same time! I have been a long time reader of this board (even in it's previous form) though until recently, short on time for posting, and I have always enjoyed a good "schooling" by Bbobynski! The insight into "What they were thinking when they designed and built this?" both facinates me and makes me have a lot of respect for the testing and validation behind the performance in our cars. Thanks to Bbobynski and everyone for the vault of fact based and real world knowledge amassed in the archives of this board. Ditto that! Good to see you back.. (Great icon) '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davedog Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Great info Bbobynski! I've been on this site a while (since we had the old board) and I love all there is to learn. The memebers here even have a way of taking a TROLL and turning it into a way to learn more about our cadiliacs. All TROLLs want to do is make problems out of nothing and get attention, best thing to do is not "feed" TROLLs, just ignore them. In this case however, I'm glad he wasn't ignored because I learned alot! -dave Trolls: How to deal with them? Trolls are best to be ignored. In fact, each time you will mention them or talk about them or talk to them you will reinforce the negative effect on the community. Crystal Red Tintcoat Exterior | Shale/Brownstone Interior | 32k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 All TROLLs want to do is make problems out of nothing and get attention, best thing to do is not "feed" TROLLs, just ignore them. In this case however, I'm glad he wasn't ignored because I learned alot! He does not look like a troll to me. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 My only comment would be that Cadillac is not for everyone. That is what I usually like to say when somebody stupid makes a comment that my Caddy must eat a lot of gas (since there is nothing else bad to be told, by looking at the car or sitting in a front seat). If I start explaining that my 10 year old car still goes 20 MGH in New York, and comparing to for example new Audi A6 who goes 17 MPG, and I do not even want to mention the SUV-s, so my response would be..."well this car is not for everyone, I can afford it and I am enjoying every minute of it..." Heh. Nobody really believes me when I tell them my V8 Cadillac gets 20/30 mpg. One of they ladies at work said, "that's what my Saturn [Vue] gets!" I usually have to prove it to people on the DIC when they're riding with me because they don't believe it. That's usually followed by a comment like, "well if you ever decide to sell it..." You sir, have a very light FOOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Excellent information! Not many places you can go to get a engineering lesson and belly laugh at the same time! I have been a long time reader of this board (even in it's previous form) though until recently, short on time for posting, and I have always enjoyed a good "schooling" by Bbobynski! The insight into "What they were thinking when they designed and built this?" both facinates me and makes me have a lot of respect for the testing and validation behind the performance in our cars. Thanks to Bbobynski and everyone for the vault of fact based and real world knowledge amassed in the archives of this board. It is nice isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Great info Bbobynski! I've been on this site a while (since we had the old board) and I love all there is to learn. The memebers here even have a way of taking a TROLL and turning it into a way to learn more about our cadiliacs. All TROLLs want to do is make problems out of nothing and get attention, best thing to do is not "feed" TROLLs, just ignore them. In this case however, I'm glad he wasn't ignored because I learned alot! -dave Trolls: How to deal with them? Trolls are best to be ignored. In fact, each time you will mention them or talk about them or talk to them you will reinforce the negative effect on the community. Quite the contrary, we did ignore him, and educated him at the same time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 You sir, have a very light FOOT! I don't think my wife would agree with you. You can get good mileage and have fun at the same time. I don't WOT when there's no room to do so (unlike so many others out there on the road), don't pass cars when I have to turn at the next intersection, and whatever I do, I'm as smooth with the throttle as I can be. But I do open road blasts at least once a day. I'm just frugal with them I guess. As an aside, when we're on a road trip, I repeatedly get 3-4 MORE mpg than my brother does, when he drives our car. Not only does he drive 5-8 mph faster than I do, but he uses the gas pedal like a toggle switch. Seems to be either on or off. By contrast, I gently roll into the throttle and roll out of it to preserve as much energy as I can. Even when I'm having fun in the car, I'm smooth with the throttle. The best mileage I ever got was 32 mpg, over 250 miles from Virginia to NC one spring afternoon. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 That's incredible Jason! I'm impressed. As a contrast, I have a heavy foot, not like a toggle switch, but I get up to speed quickly and I do speed up to get to exits, and ride above the speed limit about 10 - 15 mph.. Even on cruise control my car won't attain your results! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Get rid of that Cadillac, and buy the Honda that you are so impressed in, it suits you better. Just promise to come back when you have problems with your tail between your legs. I am going to try and not call you the names I would love to call you. We will discuss what we think about you in private. We will not lower ourselves to your level, we will have private discussions about you! Think about that.... Keep making yourself look ridiculous with your statements. Every one of your posts has been filled with anger, hate and acid, I feel sorry for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 > I feel sorry for you.< I don't. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maydog Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Guru, Do you know as much about suspensions as you do the engine? I have been dealing with a trollster on the caddilacforums.com for some time. All I can really do is speculate since I am not privy to all the design documentation about the cars. I think some engineering knowhow would quash the debate. It seems that some people cannot understand that engineering is a compromise between objectives. If you make one item perfect - the likely you are impacting another. Yes its not ideal to have dissimilar metals together, but when you want the lightness of aluminum and the strength of steel you engineer a way for them to play together. Good job on this and every other topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 >It seems that some people cannot understand that engineering is a compromise between objectives.< Well said, md '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 [if you understood what goes on when "torquing" a head (is it torquing or torqueing spelling guru..???...don't you just love it when people mock your typos and then mispell things themselves.....LOL LOL LOL) you would realize that it is an engineering endeavor. Whole books have been written on the subject of fastener engineering and the dynamics of a bolted joint. It will take more firepower than you posses jimmy to keep me quiet. Since your last post contained no facts and only insults and name calling and you have obviously realized at this point that your idea of "galvanic corrosion" is pointless and is falling on deaf ears I would suggest you stick a fork in yourself and quietly go away.....or....start a rant on some other subject so that I can have more fun with you. BTW....GM doesn't "blow smoke" up any orifice of mine on these subjects. I learned about them first hand from reputable sources....something you may not understand or comphrehend. Dammitt Guru, that iced tea came out my nose and and landed on the keyboard.. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 That will leave a mark! OUCH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbuc Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 HAHAHAHA.......Holy Crap that was AWESOME! You tell him Guru. That should keep him quiet for a little bit. This is just too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 I've got to jump in here too. In addition to being entertaining and educational, this thread has gone along way toward eliminating any concerns I might have had regarding the longevity of the head bolts on my Northstar, (or my parents 3.5 Shortstar for that matter). Thanks Guru. The urban myth sites that these guys post are far too easy to find and they can be alarming… But when you see these guys in action... You realize they really don’t have any clue as to what is going on, or what caused their car’s problem. It quickly becomes apparent that they must believe that Honda, Toyota, and BMW Head Bolts are made of Unobtainium… Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 You know there is one other issue here that has dawned on me.. We are talking about a high-performance engine that puts out more than one horsepower to each cubic inch. The Northstar V8 has been ranked as one of the "10 Best Engines in North America" by Ward's Auto World. It also beat out both Mercedes-Benz and BMW in horsepower per liter of displacement, fuel economy and required maintenance. One of the most amazing things about the engine for me is the diagnostic system that helps me locate and remedy problems. About a week ago someone told me that they more enjoyed their 60's engines that were easy to work on and more durable. Not me, don't get me wrong, I loved the Cadillac 390, 426 and 472 engines, but to me they paved the way for the Northstar. Light, powerful and efficient. It is light and it requires very little maintenance with plugs and coolant that are good for 100K miles. It gets great fuel efficiency and its a brute. It has a 10.3:1 compression ratio up to the 2000 model year according to the article below. We are not talking about your basic everyday run of the mill engine here. Lots of todays typical engines rev high but have no torque where as the NS has neck braking torque. Its an amazing design. How appropriate the word "System" is, as in "Northstar System". I do not mind putting up with quirky little things for this kind of performance. I do know that this engine is evolving and its future looks bright to me. I fully expect to see this engine one day make out of ceramics or some exotic material. If you have not seen this, I found this interesting reading: http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us100232.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32v_dohc Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Sensationalism sells. Spin a good story and captivate the audience. Don't let the truth get in the way. The funny thing is that the bolts aren't even close to suspect. A bolt hole analysis to show pullout force would look like: Force to pull out = Fsu (alum) * Dnominal^2*3.1415/4*height of 3 threads = roughly 10000 pounds. The assumption is that it would be difficult to transmit load through more than 3 threads at a time. This is because of minor pitch differences and bolt stretch under load. There are more than three threads so if some are damaged the first three to load up are used. I laughed pretty hard at the engine pulling its own headbolts under load on that other site. 10000 lbs X 10 headbolts. Imagine more than 100000 ftlbs from 280 CID. Truly amazing. The corrosion thing is funny too. The bolts have sealant under the head. The bolts go together dry and the bolt cavity is effectively sealed. Where does the electrolyte come from? The only way to get there is if a blown headgasket is puking coolant into the bolt hole. Too often the effect is mistaken for the cause. Poor or incompetant maintenance and service are the things that plague this engine most. People simply don't read the directions. Then they search for a scapegoat when things go wrong. It would be different if they did things exactly as written and still had problems but as we have seen time and time again those who have the worst aditudes and see problems again and again are those who can't be bothered or are too smart to do it just like the book says. The best guys are the ones that can use their talent to diagnose the problem then be disiplined enough to do the repair exactly like the book says. There is a reason the repair is done that way. Making it up as you go is no better than trail and error. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Bbobynski, a while back I recall someone mentioning that the Northstar was or is used in aviation. Do you have any knowledge of this? If you do, how are potentially catastophic problems avoided such as a water pump belt breaking handled? How different are the engines peripherals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Here is an article about the 2000 Indy 500 and the Aurora 4.0, baby Northstar. Make sure you read the last paragraph regarding the methane burning 3.5 liter V-8 that produces 650 hp.... Pretty interesting stuff http://ims.brickyard.com/500/news/1999/pace-110299.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 or....start a rant on some other subject so that I can have more fun with you. Heh heh heh heh... Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 The corrosion thing is funny too. The bolts have sealant under the head. The bolts go together dry and the bolt cavity is effectively sealed. Where does the electrolyte come from? The only way to get there is if a blown headgasket is puking coolant into the bolt hole. Too often the effect is mistaken for the cause. THAT fact can't be overstated enough. To often, the problem with head gaskets is attributed to the bolt threads pulling out when in reality, that's just a symptom of removing a steel bolt from an aluminum block. Correlation doesn't imply causality. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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